I'm the president of Lozic in Korea.

[Devin]

playing devil's advocate a screenshot can be faked

side note: why are other people bouncing into this thread including myself? seems like these two need to figure it out in their own ways...

Come on: drama!

Usually it is just about which oil is better (Castrol). This is like Netflix just without the sex and f-bombs.

 

[XGC75]

Castrol oil stinks when it's burned off. Mobil 1 doesn't

 

[nhcowboy28]

Castrol oil stinks when it's burned off. Mobil 1 doesn't

Crap. I’ve been using castor oil. No wonder.

 

[Kamauxx]

just without the sex and f-bombs.

The day is young...

 

[Aarvix]

If it was faked, I imagine Tork would have said something rather than doubling down on his narrative.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Come on: drama!

Usually it is just about which oil is better (Castrol). This is like Netflix just without the sex and f-bombs.

hahaha!

 

[TorkMe]

Insulting to the community....really... If your doing such a big favor to the community, why is your ECU tune so expensive? Clearly it needs a "market adjustment".

View attachment 62064

Tork ECU stage 2 with express shipping and spare ECU = $3077 (Custom tuning $4572)
Tork TCU (stage 1 only) = $99 + Spare TCU ($500?)

Tork Total $3700 - $4500

Lozic ECU - Any settings you want (includes Spare ECU and express shipping) = $1450
Lozic ECU - Any settings you want (includes Spare TCU and express shipping)= $850

Lozic Total = $2300

So you do see my logic Now that we have established that you understand what they are doing, expect to see some of my pricing getting adjusted here soon.

 

[Slip_Angle]

So you do see my logic Now that we have established that you understand what they are doing, expect to see some of my pricing getting adjusted here soon.

What "THEY" are doing?? Do you ever think about what you are saying? According to what you tell everyone, you were the first to offer ECU tunes to this community (at your very inflated prices), which means you were also the first to gouge customers and have been doing that for the longest amount of time... Now that you have been called out on your hypocrisy, suddenly you're here to save the community!?

 

[TorkMe]

What "THEY" are doing?? Do you ever think about what you are saying? According to what you tell everyone, you were the first to offer ECU tunes to this community (at your very inflated prices), which means you were also the first to gouge customers and have been doing that for the longest amount of time... Now that you have been called out on your hypocrisy, suddenly you're here to save the community!?

100% correct, but we were the first to offer a tune and I didn't have the factory supplied ECU index so it was taking 100's if not 1000's of hours of my time to pull the data from the ECU and testing on my car. You were paying for a tune that took time and a car that took money for me to test and verify on.

Have you ever wondered... where is the competitors shop cars? Or, is the competitor using customers cars to develop/test/verify these maps?

I have not been called out on anything, you have not gotten a tune from me to see the dedication I put into making sure that the tune I sell you is working to the customers needs. I will work with the customer to make sure that the tune I send them, is working as its claimed. This can be as simple as a reflash, or as intense as me sending a flashing rig so I an perfect the tune for their mods and their driving habits/style. So, unless you have my tune or have experienced the customer service with said tune, who is the one being a hypocrite?

I also remember their being affordable tuning options from Alphaspeed, Wistech, and PressureTech... I even think Vivid had/has a tune. How many issues did we see with those tunes? How many of those shops had a shop Stinger to test and verify on?

And you think that you are calling me out? Buddy, do you know why its just me and the Koreans who can make a tune for the Stinger that can rip down the 1/4 mile... because people like you enjoy ruining it for everyone else in this community. Other shops see posts like this and think to themselves, "nope... not going to touch that community with a 10ft pole". Yet... here I am explaining to you the intricate details of getting a good tune, and I am the bad guy, lol.

 

[TorkMe]

What "THEY" are doing?? Do you ever think about what you are saying? According to what you tell everyone, you were the first to offer ECU tunes to this community (at your very inflated prices), which means you were also the first to gouge customers and have been doing that for the longest amount of time... Now that you have been called out on your hypocrisy, suddenly you're here to save the community!?

And let me be the first to point out that my RWD Stinger, is pulling better times 0 to 60 MPH than your Lozic tuned G70 (street times, not track times). Yes... that says RWD Stinger with an open diff, food for thought.

 

[Slip_Angle]

All any of this means to me is that Lap 3 and Lozic know what they are doing and you are experimenting... They don't need shop cars because they take far less time to figure it out based on their knowledge and experience. Sorry but it's hard to feel any sympathy for you as the underdog because the way you treat people.

My 0-60 time is not what you should be comparing to as my tune is very mild and I have zero mods. How does your 0-60 time compare to Joel Williams with Lozic @2.89s? It doesn't.

 

[Devin]

This guy is ridiculous.

 

[TorkMe]

All any of this means to me is that Lap 3 and Lozic know what they are doing and you are experimenting... They don't need shop cars because they take far less time to figure it out based on their knowledge and experience. Sorry but it's hard to feel any sympathy for you as the underdog because the way you treat people.

My 0-60 time is not what you should be comparing to as my tune is very mild. How does your 0-60 time compare to Joel Williams with Lozic @2.89s? It doesn't.

Yes I am experimenting... have I not covered that in my first post, lol. Do you even know whats happening here? No, its because they have factory index files of the ECU, again... why we are here discussing this... please, catch up to what has been talked about this whole time. I treat people with the same respect that they treat me, you came at me, and I came back at you. Respect is earned not given.

That 2.89 is fast and my best time is 3.19 on the street. Given that I have a RWD car and that 2.89 is with an AWD car, I am working my way to getting that time dropped. That Lozic TCU tune is crazy and leaving at 16 psi on launch control is nuts! I am only leaving on 7 to 8 psi right now, but will be increasing the LC hit on the shop car here soon. If all goes well, 12 to 14 psi at the track with slicks... will get me that 2.9 sixty foot I have been looking for.

 

[XGC75]

I just don't get the business tactics here. When I worked with Lozic on my tune he sent me videos of my tune on his shop car. Lozic races - his shop cars put in work on his tunes. So we can strike out that claim.

Second, you repeatedly call out Lozic for having some inside connection as if it breaks laws or something. If Lozic has anything, it's called competitive advantage. You're at a disadvantage, plain and simple. If you want to compete, develop the relationships (in the Korean language and customs) or pay up. You're not in some unique situation - every business deals with decisions like this. Agile businesses avoid entering markets where they lack competency or have some structural disadvantage. Maladapted businesses try anyways. Capitalism means small businesses fail where they can't compete.

 

[Luminary]

100% correct, but we were the first to offer a tune and I didn't have the factory supplied ECU index so it was taking 100's if not 1000's of hours of my time to pull the data from the ECU and testing on my car. You were paying for a tune that took time and a car that took money for me to test and verify on.

Is this NOT what you were calling out the others for doing??
OK when it is your time and effort, not OK when it is your competitors?

 

[Ric 'Ochet]

So you do see my logic Now that we have established that you understand what they are doing, expect to see some of my pricing getting adjusted here soon.

Not sure but I think you meant “Lozic” not “Logic”.

 

[BertBert2019GT]

I’m just some random idiot potential customer but in all of this I am baffled by any assumed obligation on Torks side for Lozic to have to do business with Tork

Seems like Lozic has a better product at a lower cost to me.

If Lozic has something you want, get on a plane and go to S.Korea and figure out what you need to do to get it. Not this

IMO Tork could give these tunes away for FREE now and I would still be more inclined to invest in Lozic

 

[TorkMe]

Is this NOT what you were calling out the others for doing??
OK when it is your time and effort, not OK when it is your competitors?

You know they have factory ECU support right? That removes 100's if not 1000's of hours of tune development.

The car community really has not idea, what it takes to tune a car with out a master ECU index, so they?

Ok, maybe I need to explain this a little better so people understand. The ECU has maps inside of it, those maps are not present when you read the ECU or get the file from the ECU. All you get when you read/receive a file is a hex address mess of numbers. All those numbers, combine to make 1000's of maps inside of the ECU/TCU. There are things called A2L's, DAMOS files and Super Map Packs. Now, I have bought 3 of these from suppliers that I will not name, but... all of them have been missing 80% to 90% of the map index that I needed. Now, this is just part of the puzzle. You now need to know how the ECU/TCU operates or its list of commands. This comes in the form of a Funktionsrahmen (function manual) that is like the key to the ECU/TCU. For the ECU... I have none of this. However, the Koreans have all of them (I have confirmed this from multiple sources). They have a complete guide of how the ECU works, its command structure, and how the priority inside of the ECU operates. I have to figure this out, on my own. Having these resources, reduces tuning time to a week, maybe a weekend at best. Being able to source this information has been problematic, and as I have said before... the Korean market wants $85,000 USD per file, when the going rate is $5,000 ish.

Now, you may not even care because its cool to be that guy online who wants to be popular or has to make a point. I honestly do not care. Sadly, this didn't turn out like I wanted it to and now the market gets to reap the benefits of affordable TCU tunes.

Here is the cool thing about this... you are more than welcome to buy the $850 to $1500 TCU tune from them... I am not going to stop you, they are not going to stop you, lol. Just as you can buy their $1400 tune with spare ECU from them... I will not stop you and they will not stop you. What this comes down to is this... customer service. With them being in Korea, and times zones and what not, getting any little issue addressed with your tune might be a problem. With me, I am just a phone call away or message/email away from getting your answers taken care of. Its essentially, what you are paying for.

 

[TorkMe]

I just don't get the business tactics here. When I worked with Lozic on my tune he sent me videos of my tune on his shop car. Lozic races - his shop cars put in work on his tunes. So we can strike out that claim.

Second, you repeatedly call out Lozic for having some inside connection as if it breaks laws or something. If Lozic has anything, it's called competitive advantage. You're at a disadvantage, plain and simple. If you want to compete, develop the relationships (in the Korean language and customs) or pay up. You're not in some unique situation - every business deals with decisions like this. Agile businesses avoid entering markets where they lack competency or have some structural disadvantage. Maladapted businesses try anyways. Capitalism means small businesses fail where they can't compete.

They are "his shop cars" or they are customers cars? Please, verify that for us.

100% agree, they have the competitive advantage. Why do people think I have not tried to develop a relationship with them? I used several Korean speaking business people to ask questions and attempt to get the information that I wanted/needed. I even hired a person in Korea to visit these shops and make professional introductions, and to show my intent of building a relationship... it got me nowhere. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I lack competency, given that my tunes have ranked in the top spots for Draggy and track times for well over a year now. I hold 1/4 mile records and dyno records in several other KDM communities that still stand to this day. Being that I have the ability to learn, educate and have the determination unlike anyone in the tuning community and given that I have come as far as I have with zero support or any help from the Koreans. I actually like where I am at in this market. If anything, this trial and error on all our personal shop cars has given me an edge over the competition. Due to the time and effort I have had to put into these ECU's, its given me a unique an very intimate understanding of how the structure works inside Korean ECU's.

 

[XGC75]

They are "his shop cars" or they are customers cars? Please, verify that for us.

100% agree, they have the competitive advantage. Why do people think I have not tried to develop a relationship with them? I used several Korean speaking business people to ask questions and attempt to get the information that I wanted/needed. I even hired a person in Korea to visit these shops and make professional introductions, and to show my intent of building a relationship... it got me nowhere. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I lack competency, given that my tunes have ranked in the top spots for Draggy and track times for well over a year now. I hold 1/4 mile records and dyno records in several other KDM communities that still stand to this day. Being that I have the ability to learn, educate and have the determination unlike anyone in the tuning community and given that I have come as far as I have with zero support or any help from the Koreans. I actually like where I am at in this market. If anything, this trial and error on all our personal shop cars has given me an edge over the competition. Due to the time and effort I have had to put into these ECU's, its given me a unique an very intimate understanding of how the structure works inside Korean ECU's.

I've been reading this great book lately called The Culture Map by Erin Meyer. Highly recommended

Glad you're enjoying the process. I'd recommend this book again. It (mostly) wasn't meant to be a snarky response. It's genuinely relevant to this discussion.