Wheel/size/offset and tire/size/profile...can be confusing.

[TimT]

Ok guys and gals, I have some fairly decent advice. Idk if it’s been mentioned on here, but after extensive research, I have found that every single low, middle, and high tier wheel company is using the same Chinese factory to source their wheels. My advice after finding this, is save your money and go for the TSWs or Niche if they offer the size and finish you want. If you buy the Vossins or Ferradas, you are paying 200+ a rim for a brand stamp on the face. If there is a certain style you like that an expensive company is offering, take a couple hours out of your day and find an off-brand or low tier wheel company that offers the same wheel.

I saw you post this somewhere else too but without actually any specific links.
So could you please bring an example of a specific wheel that is sold on Alibaba by a chinese factory and then the same link for the same wheel with a different brand logo on same pages?

Having Vossens on my Stinger I did tons of research beforehand, I'm by no means a hardcore fanboy and always like to look at these things in-depth so I did look at TSW-s and Niche 's too. But this type of accusation "If you buy the Vossins or Ferradas, you are paying 200+ a rim for brand stamp on the face" does sound kind of harsh when they have their own manufacturing facility and have a whole seperate page on their homepage dedicated to that. Can read more about that here: Engineering - Vossen Wheels

 

[YOWStinger]

Ok guys and gals, I have some fairly decent advice. Idk if it’s been mentioned on here, but after extensive research, I have found that every single low, middle, and high tier wheel company is using the same Chinese factory to source their wheels. My advice after finding this, is save your money and go for the TSWs or Niche if they offer the size and finish you want. If you buy the Vossins or Ferradas, you are paying 200+ a rim for a brand stamp on the face. If there is a certain style you like that an expensive company is offering, take a couple hours out of your day and find an off-brand or low tier wheel company that offers the same wheel.

For serious, this came up in another thread, in particular, if you're looking for super lightweight wheels (ok, you can get lighter, but you're going to pay a hell of a lot more) are the American Racing AR924's, at 20" you're getting a flow forged wheel that weighs 24# for a 20x10.5, that's actually pretty crazy, and they're very inexpensive.

Also, in case anyone is interested, I'm currently measuring out to see if I can fit 305/25 on 20x10.5+50. There's plenty of space behind my 20x10.5+45, but really flush with the fender, thinking of getting my Variants machined up to +50, which may let me fit a 305, which has an identical circumference to the 255/30's for the front, and a slightly lower overall diameter than my 285/30's bringing me a little closer to stock. Still love my 285/30's, but I think I can do better

 

[YOWStinger]

Here's the AR924, personally I think they look killer, and check out that price. I want to see this on someones car

AR924 CROSSFIRE - American Racing

 

[Hoonin]

I saw you post this somewhere else too but without actually any specific links.
So could you please bring an example of a specific wheel that is sold on Alibaba by a chinese factory and then the same link for the same wheel with a different brand logo on same pages?

Having Vossens on my Stinger I did tons of research beforehand, I'm by no means a hardcore fanboy and always like to look at these things in-depth so I did look at TSW-s and Niche 's too. But this type of accusation "If you buy the Vossins or Ferradas, you are paying 200+ a rim for brand stamp on the face" does sound kind of harsh when they have their own manufacturing facility and have a whole seperate page on their homepage dedicated to that. Can read more about that here: Engineering - Vossen Wheels

Which Vossens did you buy, I will find them tonight.

 

[Hoonin]

For serious, this came up in another thread, in particular, if you're looking for super lightweight wheels (ok, you can get lighter, but you're going to pay a hell of a lot more) are the American Racing AR924's, at 20" you're getting a flow forged wheel that weighs 24# for a 20x10.5, that's actually pretty crazy, and they're very inexpensive.

This right here. Also I should add that you are actually better buying from an American importer like American Racing, Niche, TSW, and even others like Vossin. If you were to order the same flow forged wheel from direct from the Chinese factory, it would cost you about $1,500+ due to the lack of quantity ordered and shipping. From what I have seen, these companies are paying anywhere from $45-100 a wheel depending on how many they order, finish, and how customized the face is from the standard shape.

Also a lot of company’s are using the abbreviations RF, HF, and FF for their model numbers/names.

“RF” = Rotary Forged

“RF” = Radial Forged

“HF” = Hybrid Forged

“FF” = Flow Formed

All of the processes are exactly the same and the correct term is “Flow Forged”. None of the rims that are produced using the flow form are actually forged. In fact, the faces of the rims are still 100% cast unless notated.

If you guys want to begin your jump down the rabbit hole here is a good start.

Vossin - Evo-4 (I don’t care that they claimed they forged this wheel. They are already misleading people by calling their HF series Hybrid Forged, when it is in fact a flow formed cast wheel. It also says “cnc’d, in Miami, not “made in Miami” which is awfully convenient terminology. This leads me to believe that they take the Chinese rim and add their own flair to it”)

Below are all of the EVO-4s offered by their competition.... where are the lawsuits? There aren’t any!

Rohana - RXF11
Variant - Xenon
Ferrada - FR5
Aodhan - FF1
XXR - 559
XO - Cairo
Blaque Diamond - F25
Jova - Deep concave
Giovanna - FM855
Brixton - RF7

I could keep going, there are several more. I will attempt to find the alibaba manufacturer again too.

 

[Cadimac705]

Well got the Aodhans in (LS007) 19x8.5 and 19x9.5 +35. Just got to wait on the snow to go away

 

[Hockster]

Just ordered Asanti Orions, 20X9, 20X10.5 and Nitto 555G2's. 245/35, 285/30's.
Asanti Black Label ABL-12 Orion Wheels & ABL-12 Orion Rims On Sale

 

[Cadimac705]

Just ordered Asanti Orions, 20X9, 20X10.5 and Nitto 555G2's. 245/35, 285/30's.
Asanti Black Label ABL-12 Orion Wheels & ABL-12 Orion Rims On Sale

Im stuck between the invos and the 555g2s

 

[Hoonin]

Well got the Aodhans in (LS007) 19x8.5 and 19x9.5 +35. Just got to wait on the snow to go away

Those are some nice VossenVFS-6 Ferrada FR-8 wheels!

 

[Cadimac705]

Those are some nice VossenVFS-6 Ferrada FR-8 wheels!

Does not bother me what they are, they were in the price range i had to work with until i buy forged and lighter than the Niches i wanted. Affordability and practicality was what mattered as i had no summers

 

[Hoonin]

Does not bother me what they are, they were in the price range i had to work with until i buy forged and lighter than the Niches i wanted. Affordability and practicality was what mattered as i had no summers

I’m actually commending you for purchasing the the Aodhan. If you read my post above, you will see that your rims are the same exact rims that Ferrada, Vossen, and many other name brands are selling. They are all produced at the same factory!

People are paying 600+ a wheel for the same exact rim you bought for $175, simply because of the marketing that name brands do.

Also the wheels you bought are flow formed, so they are G2G. No point in spending $4,000 a wheel on truly forged wheels unless you are pushing an insane amount of HP or you are tracking the car constantly.

Hybrid Forged, Rotary Forged, Wheel Forged, etc etc is all the same process and much stronger than cast, even though they begin life as a cast wheel. The above are bullshit marketing terms and aren’t actually forged, they are flow formed.

 

[MerlintheMad]

No point in spending $4,000 a wheel on truly forged wheels unless you are pushing an insane amount of HP or you are tracking the car constantly.

Or your car is a Ferrari.

Kia OE wheels must be a heck of a Name Brand, since they charge well over $600 per wheel. Hah.

 

[Hoonin]

Or your car is a Ferrari.

Kia OE wheels must be a heck of a Name Brand, since they charge well over $600 per wheel. Hah.

And they are likely cast!

 

[turboAWD]

What's your assessment of Enkei flow-formed, like TY-5?

 

[Hoonin]

What's your assessment of Enkei flow-formed, like TY-5?

I think it’s a good buy, the price is definitely right. People are spending 2 - 3 times as much for a Vossin or Ferrada stamp on the same exact wheel.

 

[TimT]

Came on the forum and remembered I forgot to answer you yesterday, anyway, so I have a set of Vossen VFS 6-s, would love to see some actual links behind the thing you have found.
Because your current example of Vossen VFS6 / Ferrada FR 8s being the same as the Aodhans I can partially agree on, the Ferradas and Aodhans have based on pictures pretty much an identical design but the VFS6-s and the spoke sizes and shapes of these spokes have differentiating size ratios so essentially the base drawing can be similar but the design is still different. Put them side-by-side so you can see the visual difference too in mostly the size ratios of the design elements.

Your question of "why are there no lawsuits if the designs are so similar" is simple, a wheel design quite likely does not qualify for any type of copyright / patent protection, since there is no 'owner' of the original design, it is rather impossible to create an adequate lawsuit for any of the parties and it is much easier to just accept it.

Another thing you brought out is the marketing side. It is not just about the brand stamp, it is about knowing that behind the scenes the workmanship / craftmanship when working with these wheels has certain standards, that they set out to their products and the way they complete the final product from the raw material (the cast wheel). Then comes the second side which is the emotional value that certain brands can offer due to the way they have presented themselves or built their braind, which adds another element of trust as well as in some cases a bit of "stature" to it.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Your question of "why are there no lawsuits if the designs are so similar" is simple, a wheel design quite likely does not qualify for any type of copyright / patent protection, since there is no 'owner' of the original design, it is rather impossible to create an adequate lawsuit for any of the parties and it is much easier to just accept it.

Years ago I learned that if you take a copyright protected anything and change it a minimum of ten percent, then the new version is not violating the original copyright. I think that wheels that look "the same" easily fall into this category: a simple thickening/thinning of a spoke could easily change the original at least ten percent, yet to the naked eye would be almost impossible to tell unless that side-by-side comparison were made.

 

[Gtecko]

I think everyone should get 3 more Kia donut wheel and rock that set up !

 

[MerlintheMad]

I think everyone should get 3 more Kia donut wheel and rock that set up !

The day I see a Stinger with "South Of The Border Look" bitty wheels and bias ply whitewall tires, going up and down on airbladder suspension, at ten MPH, on State Street, I will throw up.

 

[Hoonin]

Came on the forum and remembered I forgot to answer you yesterday, anyway, so I have a set of Vossen VFS 6-s, would love to see some actual links behind the thing you have found.
Because your current example of Vossen VFS6 / Ferrada FR 8s being the same as the Aodhans I can partially agree on, the Ferradas and Aodhans have based on pictures pretty much an identical design but the VFS6-s and the spoke sizes and shapes of these spokes have differentiating size ratios so essentially the base drawing can be similar but the design is still different. Put them side-by-side so you can see the visual difference too in mostly the size ratios of the design elements.

Your question of "why are there no lawsuits if the designs are so similar" is simple, a wheel design quite likely does not qualify for any type of copyright / patent protection, since there is no 'owner' of the original design, it is rather impossible to create an adequate lawsuit for any of the parties and it is much easier to just accept it.

Another thing you brought out is the marketing side. It is not just about the brand stamp, it is about knowing that behind the scenes the workmanship / craftmanship when working with these wheels has certain standards, that they set out to their products and the way they complete the final product from the raw material (the cast wheel). Then comes the second side which is the emotional value that certain brands can offer due to the way they have presented themselves or built their braind, which adds another element of trust as well as in some cases a bit of "stature" to it.

What did the cast on the back of the wheel say? “Made in the USA” or “Designed in the USA”?. Vossen is very careful to label their flow forged wheels as being “Machined in Miami”. Which again, is a marketing ploy.

I was a purchaser for 6 years for a fairly large company, I’ve spent countless hours researching products, I guarantee you that Vossen orders their wheels from a Chinese factory. If it’s not the same one as some of the brands I listed, it’s from the same group of manufacturers. My favorite ploy of all time is “assembled in the USA”. I too paid a premium for aftermarket wheels, I knew beforehand they were made in China, they were also marketed as being US made at one point. They have “designed in the USA cast into the back.

I could care less about stature and more about the quality and style of the wheel. If the quality and style is the same amongst the 30+ brands, I’m more than likely going to look at price. The only reason I bought the wheels I did was because the company offered the exact brushes bronze finish I wanted. If Aodhan offered it, I would have just went with them. “Stature” is the end result of good marketing.