Lets talk tuning, piggy back vs ECU flash.

[TorkMe]

Well first, it was hard to get a hard date on the tune through messaging online. Back and forth with "Let me talk to the owner and get back to you" being their last message to me. Then their website sales were down, so I couldn't actually purchase anything. Also, no option for no shipping since I'm local.

So I said f it, I'll make a stop down there and get a solid date and I wanted to check out the shop anyways and meet everyone. etc. Matt asked if I could pay for the extra ECU while I was at the shop, so they could make sure it was there on time. I said no problem at all. Went in, chatted it up for a while. Was told they would flash me back to stock whenever I wanted, so I decided I didn't really need an extra ECU since it's a 30 min drive. Matt asked if I wanted to pay for just the parts for the stage 1 while I was there. Sure, why not. I was planning to spend a grand on the ECU anyways today.

A little less than a week later they promoted a sale saying they were including intakes with a tune purchase. Sweet! Save me 200 bucks. So I message being kinda funny "You guys are gonna hook me up with that sale right!? " Thinking obviously they were going to... I paid early for convenience, and I didn't have to pay until the 8th when I actually got the parts. It was a chill convo, no sign of them saying I had to pay a week prior or anything like that. They have all the parts I wanted in the shop.

SILENCE. Read an hour later. Okay maybe they're a bit busy, I'm sure they'll get back to me tomorrow.

I message around lunch the next day. SILENCE. Read an hour later.

Ut oh. Now I'm like hmmm... There's no way they are gonna penalize me for paying EARLY right?

I message again that evening kind of explaining the situation. This time I get an instant reply with basically no.

At this point I had already spent 24 hours pretty upset that I was getting blown off when they had always responded promptly. It was pretty obvious they were gonna keep the money.

I asked for a full refund and told them I would be finding a new tuner and now they are upset with me. They didn't fight me on the refund though, so I do appreciate that.

This on top of :

The forum problems with Matt and John saying completely different things on whether reflashes were free. (Still hasn't been resolved.)
Matt telling me not to tell anyone about their pricing.
In person talks about their competition where they made some accusations.

Just made me feel shady. I had to watch what I typed on the forums like I was dealing in secret, and I was fairly sure if I had anything bad to say in the review of their tune I was going to be on their shit list (That means no reflashes. Case by case according to John). I decided that although they were my #1 choice, I'd rather have my #2 choice with better support.

I was kind of going out on a limb working with them, as I had read on other forums some pretty rough stuff about them. They don't have the best rep in some circles. Shit happens. As long as they do me right it's bygones. I was skeptical from the jump so it didn't take much to get me out. If I'm getting a 40,000 dollar car tuned, I want to know the place is going to work with me if anything happens, or if I'm not satisfied. I didn't get that impression so I hit the door.

In saying all of that, I still believe John is the most skilled tuner on this platform right now. Tonka has nothing but great things to say about his car and we have talked quite a bit. He is actually the one who alerted me to the sale and said "dude you're saving 200 bucks".

First I want to say that is to bad we couldn't agree on something with your car, and get you tuned.

We have resolved the reflash issue, I don't know how this is not being understood, but... we will reflash one time for free, and the rest of the reflashes will be taken on a case by case basis. I never really explained my reasons why, so here goes.

The reflash on a case by case basis is because people love to be cheap. We have recieved non customer ECU's asking for a reflash, claiming that the ECU was flashed over by the dealer. Come to find out, they were getting a tune for a buddy, and trying to get it for free. Also, there is a limited number of times that you can flash a tune into an ECU, when this number is reached... the ECU terminates the communication with the flashing equipment, and you are left with an $900 paper weight. Hopefully this address's the reason behind flashing the ECU an "unlimited" number of times.

I find it hard to believe that anyone talked negative or made any accusations about our competition. I pride myself in not sharing my opinions about other shops in my shop, its not needed or beneficial, please DM me so we can talk about this.

Matt requested that you not discuss pricing with anyone, because you were local, and we were giving you a deal on the parts and tuning combo you were getting. Had we not given you any special pricing, we wouldn't have any issues with you talking about our pricing. We were attempting to be nice, and work with another local.

As far as what you have read about us on the forums in other "circles"... I hate to ask this, why in the hell did you even bother with coming to us if that is how you felt?

I do feel bad that we are not tuning you and getting you the parts that you want, but... when I my wife said, "this shit always happens with locals, we bend over backwards for them, and they shit all over us anyways. He is getting a refund".

I do want to thank you, you opened my eyes and made me realize... that we are much to giving to the local people we work with. So, starting the first of the year, we will not offer any special pricing or package deals for the locals looking to get a "deal". I have had to remove myself from the customer interactions because I would give everything away for free, because I love what I do. But... free doesn't put food on the table and keep a roof over my family's head. It saddens me when I see a post like this, because its just going to be another thing on the internet that people can pull up, and point out how bad we really are, when in fact... all we did was tell you no, and give you your money back.

Thanks,

John

 

[TorkMe]

It seems they're used to the German luxury tax and are passing it on to us simple Korean car folk.

And... no dyno for tune development. I wish I could charge that much, and claim it to be a luxury tax, lol.

 

[TwinSnails]

Or, we can offer unlimited flashes, and when the flash counter reaches maximum, and bricks your ECU then what?

I thought you said you could reset the flash counter?

 

[Yaro]

Moving to bigger turbos, when there is still more left in the stock turbo's, makes sense

Methanol, E30, super tight plug gaps, and for what reason?

When I have the Stage 2 tune figured out, the ECU mapped, and start posting results, its going to blow peoples minds.

The problem being, everyone is looking for the bandaid to get there and make the power. While, I amniver here trying to find the limitation inside the ECU.

Now, if we get this figured out.... can you imagine what we will be able to do with bigger turbo's, methanol and E30 fuel blends?

well, we will be somewhere where the Evo X is...

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Moving to bigger turbos, when there is still more left in the stock turbo's, makes sense

Methanol, E30, super tight plug gaps, and for what reason?

When I have the Stage 2 tune figured out, the ECU mapped, and start posting results, its going to blow peoples minds.

The problem being, everyone is looking for the bandaid to get there and make the power. While, I amniver here trying to find the limitation inside the ECU.

Now, if we get this figured out.... can you imagine what we will be able to do with bigger turbo's, methanol and E30 fuel blends?

I honestly cant imagine lol. I have no idea where the peak will be for our cars but its promising for what will be done.

 

[TorkMe]

I thought you said you could reset the flash counter?

Not the same flash counter. This is a hard coded fail limit. No one can see this, and its hidden inside one of the smaller chip sets on the board. Normally the only way to get around this is to mechanically put a bypass (wire soldered to the board) on the ECU.

 

[TorkMe]

I honestly cant imagine lol. I have no idea where the peak will be for our cars but its promising for what will be done.

My sarcassim didn't relate very well in my post.

My point was, why would tuning companies move into bigger turbos, exotic fuels, when the ECU limits have not been reached? By limits, I mean tuning limits.

Everyone has ran into the power limiter in side the ECU, piggy back or tune... everyone is hitting it right now. I currently have a tune I am testing in my car, with those limits raised (I think I have all those limiters found now). Here is what I can share about the current tune in my car, anything under 50 MPH ends in instant wheels spin. If I am getting on the freeway, hammer down at 60 MPH. The traction control light starts to blink at me.

Do you see what I am getting at?

If the stock turbos are capable of 500 wheel horsepower, why abondon tuning them to that level? There is a lot of tuning tallent in this community, but everyone appears to think the stock turbo's are out of oomph, and I do not think that is the case.

So, everyone is stuck at 12.2 to 11.8 in the 1/4 mile right now. Its not becaise the turbos, its because the ECU.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

My sarcassim didn't relate very well in my post.

My point was, why would tuning companies move into bigger turbos, exotic fuels, when the ECU limits have not been reached? By limits, I mean tuning limits.

Everyone has ran into the power limiter in side the ECU, piggy back or tune... everyone is hitting it right now. I currently have a tune I am testing in my car, with those limits raised (I think I have all those limiters found now). Here is what I can share about the current tune in my car, anything under 50 MPH ends in instant wheels spin. If I am getting on the freeway, hammer down at 60 MPH. The traction control light starts to blink at me.

Do you see what I am getting at?

If the stock turbos are capable of 500 wheel horsepower, why abondon tuning them to that level? There is a lot of tuning tallent in this community, but everyone appears to think the stock turbo's are out of oomph, and I do not think that is the case.

So, everyone is stuck at 12.2 to 11.8 in the 1/4 mile right now. Its not becaise the turbos, its because the ECU.

I can definitely agree that there is more power to be made within our current set ups but New Turbos will be needed eventually. Im just glad people are working on them now. Hopefully this time next year we are talking about 600hp Stingers

 

[Blitz]

First I want to say that is to bad we couldn't agree on something with your car, and get you tuned.

We have resolved the reflash issue, I don't know how this is not being understood, but... we will reflash one time for free, and the rest of the reflashes will be taken on a case by case basis. I never really explained my reasons why, so here goes.

The reflash on a case by case basis is because people love to be cheap. We have recieved non customer ECU's asking for a reflash, claiming that the ECU was flashed over by the dealer. Come to find out, they were getting a tune for a buddy, and trying to get it for free. Also, there is a limited number of times that you can flash a tune into an ECU, when this number is reached... the ECU terminates the communication with the flashing equipment, and you are left with an $900 paper weight. Hopefully this address's the reason behind flashing the ECU an "unlimited" number of times.

I find it hard to believe that anyone talked negative or made any accusations about our competition. I pride myself in not sharing my opinions about other shops in my shop, its not needed or beneficial, please DM me so we can talk about this.

Matt requested that you not discuss pricing with anyone, because you were local, and we were giving you a deal on the parts and tuning combo you were getting. Had we not given you any special pricing, we wouldn't have any issues with you talking about our pricing. We were attempting to be nice, and work with another local.

As far as what you have read about us on the forums in other "circles"... I hate to ask this, why in the hell did you even bother with coming to us if that is how you felt?

I do feel bad that we are not tuning you and getting you the parts that you want, but... when I my wife said, "this shit always happens with locals, we bend over backwards for them, and they shit all over us anyways. He is getting a refund".

I do want to thank you, you opened my eyes and made me realize... that we are much to giving to the local people we work with. So, starting the first of the year, we will not offer any special pricing or package deals for the locals looking to get a "deal". I have had to remove myself from the customer interactions because I would give everything away for free, because I love what I do. But... free doesn't put food on the table and keep a roof over my family's head. It saddens me when I see a post like this, because its just going to be another thing on the internet that people can pull up, and point out how bad we really are, when in fact... all we did was tell you no, and give you your money back.

Thanks,

John

I went with you because I understand how the internet works and lots of things are blown out of proportion and it's really a combination of faults but accusations get lobbed. I said that in my post. Bygones. I tried not to do any bashing. Like I said, I was over the moon to have the best Stinger tuner local so I could rep...

The reflash issue was solved by you, then Matt came into the thread and said it was unlimited again. It's not that anyone is having a hard time understanding, it's that you 2 don't agree...

I totally agree that locals shouldn't get special deals. Things go much more smoothly if you have solid rules and pricing so everyone feels treated fairly. That's not to say that some things in a transaction shouldn't be taken case by case. Like you guys fixing someone's ECU tune for free because he got a botched job from someone else. That's one of the reasons I ignored some comments on customer service. It's good PR. It mattered to me.

I don't know why you're acting like you were doing me a favor though. You didn't bend over backwards for me at all. I paid FULL price for every part. If you were giving me a discount on the installs I appreciate it, but the prices seemed normal to me. I was totally down to pay it because I wanted everything done in one go. Here are the costs of the labor for Saturday. It was never pointed out to me that one of these values was me getting a deal. I had already paid full price for each individual part.

Dyno tune - $995
Spark plug install - $300
Muffler delete install - $100
Intake install - $75
Subtotal - $1470
Tax - $147
Total - $1617

I don't think it's cool to paint me as a spoiled brat. I only asked for what was fair in my case. It was optional that I pay early, then it was held against me. That's kinda whack and I feel like you would feel the same way if it was you in my shoes. If you guys had made it clear I was getting some kind of deal, and that you couldn't stack another deal with it, I likely would have just ate it. I really wanted a tork tune. COMMUNICATION would have solved this all. Ignoring me while promoting your sale on facebook and forums was what made me skeptical. Not the money.

 

[TorkMe]

I went with you because I understand how the internet works and lots of things are blown out of proportion and it's really a combination of faults but accusations get lobbed. I said that in my post. Bygones. I tried not to do any bashing. Like I said, I was over the moon to have the best Stinger tuner local so I could rep...

The reflash issue was solved by you, then Matt came into the thread and said it was unlimited again. It's not that anyone is having a hard time understanding, it's that you 2 don't agree...

I totally agree that locals shouldn't get special deals. Things go much more smoothly if you have solid rules and pricing so everyone feels treated fairly. That's not to say that some things in a transaction shouldn't be taken case by case. Like you guys fixing someone's ECU tune for free because he got a botched job from someone else. That's one of the reasons I ignored some comments on customer service. It's good PR. It mattered to me.

I don't know why you're acting like you were doing me a favor though. You didn't bend over backwards for me at all. I paid FULL price for every part. If you were giving me a discount on the installs I appreciate it, but the prices seemed normal to me. I was totally down to pay it because I wanted everything done in one go. Here are the costs of the labor for Saturday. It was never pointed out to me that one of these values was me getting a deal. I had already paid full price for each individual part.

Dyno tune - $995
Spark plug install - $300
Muffler delete install - $100
Intake install - $75
Subtotal - $1470
Tax - $147
Total - $1617

I don't think it's cool to paint me as a spoiled brat. I only asked for what was fair in my case. It was optional that I pay early, then it was held against me. That's kinda whack and I feel like you would feel the same way if it was you in my shoes. If you guys had made it clear I was getting some kind of deal, and that you couldn't stack another deal with it, I likely would have just ate it. I really wanted a tork tune. COMMUNICATION would have solved this all. Ignoring me while promoting your sale on facebook and forums was what made me skeptical. Not the money.

If you feel that anything was held against you, I apologize for that.

Yes, a deal was built into the labor for you and I thought that was explained to you, hence... we didn't want you sharing prices.

That wait time of 24 hours was because it was mine and my wifes 15 year anniversary, Matt didn't want to bother me with the free intakes and I was not in the office when you asked that question. If 24 hours is to long to wait for an answer, its best for both of us that you got your refund.

Water under the bridge at this point, and it looks like we are both happy with the resolve.

 

[TorkMe]

I can definitely agree that there is more power to be made within our current set ups but New Turbos will be needed eventually. Im just glad people are working on them now. Hopefully this time next year we are talking about 600hp Stingers

I am not very good at explaining this.

So, if there is more left on the table with the stick turbos, then how much will be missing with upgraded turbos?

My point being, if you don't have the ECU figured out, why start adding more turbo? Adding another element to the already difficult ECU to tune, just makes it that much more difficult.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

I am not very good at explaining this.

So, if there is more left on the table with the stick turbos, then how much will be missing with upgraded turbos?

My point being, if you don't have the ECU figured out, why start adding more turbo? Adding another element to the already difficult ECU to tune, just makes it that much more difficult.

Ahh i got ya now.

 

[Yaro]

I am not very good at explaining this.

So, if there is more left on the table with the stick turbos, then how much will be missing with upgraded turbos?

My point being, if you don't have the ECU figured out, why start adding more turbo? Adding another element to the already difficult ECU to tune, just makes it that much more difficult.

Are you tuning only 3.3 liter version ? What about 2.0 version ?

 

[Sales@Tork]

I'm still confused about that as well. After one of the Tork accounts cleared up the contradiction the other Tork account came and walked it all back so I have no idea where they stand regarding re-flashing.

Sorry things didn't work out but at least you were able to get your money back. $1k will get you a JB4, SSR mid-pipes, and a DIY intake. Decent consolation prizes.

To reflash a vehicle back to stock then reflash the tune back on once dealer visit is done, that is free. The reflash itself is FREE when going back to stock and tuned from dealer visits

 

[TorkMe]

Are you tuning only 3.3 liter version ? What about 2.0 version ?

I have the base mapping done, just need a car here at the shop to test with.

 

[Yaro]

I have the base mapping done, just need a car here at the shop to test with.

Do you flash then using obd or ob the bench ?

 

[Ritz]

So, everyone is stuck at 12.2 to 11.8 in the 1/4 mile right now. Its not becaise the turbos, its because the ECU.

Why do you think that's the case? As you approach doubling the WHP, my personal concern would be around hosing other parts of the drivetrain (like the transmission) rather than blowing up the engine. I haven't been able to find any tales of people destroying parts south of the engine yet so it would appear that Kia has done a decent job of engineering some cushion for tuning or future power upgrades with the platform.

Cheers!

 

[Angel]

First I want to say that is to bad we couldn't agree on something with your car, and get you tuned.

We have resolved the reflash issue, I don't know how this is not being understood, but... we will reflash one time for free, and the rest of the reflashes will be taken on a case by case basis. I never really explained my reasons why, so here goes.

The reflash on a case by case basis is because people love to be cheap. We have recieved non customer ECU's asking for a reflash, claiming that the ECU was flashed over by the dealer. Come to find out, they were getting a tune for a buddy, and trying to get it for free. Also, there is a limited number of times that you can flash a tune into an ECU, when this number is reached... the ECU terminates the communication with the flashing equipment, and you are left with an $900 paper weight. Hopefully this address's the reason behind flashing the ECU an "unlimited" number of times.

I find it hard to believe that anyone talked negative or made any accusations about our competition. I pride myself in not sharing my opinions about other shops in my shop, its not needed or beneficial, please DM me so we can talk about this.

Matt requested that you not discuss pricing with anyone, because you were local, and we were giving you a deal on the parts and tuning combo you were getting. Had we not given you any special pricing, we wouldn't have any issues with you talking about our pricing. We were attempting to be nice, and work with another local.

As far as what you have read about us on the forums in other "circles"... I hate to ask this, why in the hell did you even bother with coming to us if that is how you felt?

I do feel bad that we are not tuning you and getting you the parts that you want, but... when I my wife said, "this shit always happens with locals, we bend over backwards for them, and they shit all over us anyways. He is getting a refund".

I do want to thank you, you opened my eyes and made me realize... that we are much to giving to the local people we work with. So, starting the first of the year, we will not offer any special pricing or package deals for the locals looking to get a "deal". I have had to remove myself from the customer interactions because I would give everything away for free, because I love what I do. But... free doesn't put food on the table and keep a roof over my family's head. It saddens me when I see a post like this, because its just going to be another thing on the internet that people can pull up, and point out how bad we really are, when in fact... all we did was tell you no, and give you your money back.

Thanks,

John

I wont state my opinion I dont want to get into an argument or be portrayed as the bad guy but just read the below posts.....




Mod edit: no reason to bring politics into this thread.

 

[Angel]

I went with you because I understand how the internet works and lots of things are blown out of proportion and it's really a combination of faults but accusations get lobbed. I said that in my post. Bygones. I tried not to do any bashing. Like I said, I was over the moon to have the best Stinger tuner local so I could rep...

The reflash issue was solved by you, then Matt came into the thread and said it was unlimited again. It's not that anyone is having a hard time understanding, it's that you 2 don't agree...

I totally agree that locals shouldn't get special deals. Things go much more smoothly if you have solid rules and pricing so everyone feels treated fairly. That's not to say that some things in a transaction shouldn't be taken case by case. Like you guys fixing someone's ECU tune for free because he got a botched job from someone else. That's one of the reasons I ignored some comments on customer service. It's good PR. It mattered to me.

I don't know why you're acting like you were doing me a favor though. You didn't bend over backwards for me at all. I paid FULL price for every part. If you were giving me a discount on the installs I appreciate it, but the prices seemed normal to me. I was totally down to pay it because I wanted everything done in one go. Here are the costs of the labor for Saturday. It was never pointed out to me that one of these values was me getting a deal. I had already paid full price for each individual part.

Dyno tune - $995
Spark plug install - $300
Muffler delete install - $100
Intake install - $75
Subtotal - $1470
Tax - $147
Total - $1617

I don't think it's cool to paint me as a spoiled brat. I only asked for what was fair in my case. It was optional that I pay early, then it was held against me. That's kinda whack and I feel like you would feel the same way if it was you in my shoes. If you guys had made it clear I was getting some kind of deal, and that you couldn't stack another deal with it, I likely would have just ate it. I really wanted a tork tune. COMMUNICATION would have solved this all. Ignoring me while promoting your sale on facebook and forums was what made me skeptical. Not the money.

I am glad to hear your honesty...sorry you had a bad experience but there are other tuners lol go to presertech and you wont regret it guarantee it man...Of course you are going to be portrayed like the bad guy or spoiled brat ......especially on the forum....but anyways good that you made this info public for other to see...I always had a feeling they were a bit shady......now again maybe not everyone has the same experience its like flipping a coin with them .......Tonka has nothing but good things to say....and thats great for him .....but man give Todd a call at Presertech and do what you feel is right for you dont let anyone or claims steer you in their directions......Sometimes there is a reason they have bad reviews lol not everyone can be a bad guy or hating on them....search presertech and there is not 1 bad review lol is it coincidence i will leave it up to you.....cheers

 

[Blitz]

I am glad to hear your honesty...sorry you had a bad experience but there are other tuners lol go to presertech and you wont regret it guarantee it man...Of course you are going to be portrayed like the bad guy or spoiled brat ......especially on the forum....but anyways good that you made this info public for other to see...I always had a feeling they were a bit shady......now again maybe not everyone has the same experience its like flipping a coin with them .......Tonka has nothing but good things to say....and thats great for him .....but man give Todd a call at Presertech and do what you feel is right for you dont let anyone or claims steer you in their directions......Sometimes there is a reason they have bad reviews lol not everyone can be a bad guy or hating on them....search presertech and there is not 1 bad review lol is it coincidence i will leave it up to you.....cheers

I honestly do not need or want your support.

I disagree with basically everything that comes out of your mouth and I'm not trying to sling mud at anyone. I said I would give a full review and I did, for better or worse. It was just me being honest about my experience.