Harmon Kardon Sound System

[Chark]

in 10 minutes, he burned through more than a quarter of a tank of gas. Still looks fun though, and much better fuel economy than a Bugatti!

 

[MerlintheMad]

The kick in acceleration is fun. I haven't floored it yet but I was watching this video on YT where this guy was flooring his Stinger on Autobahn. That must be a rush.

Edit: Here's the video

That video is a rush. Resurrects my autobahn envy. He actually got it up to 271km/h (168.39159 Mile/Hour (mph)), right near the end of the video.

in 10 minutes, he burned through more than a quarter of a tank of gas. Still looks fun though, and much better fuel economy than a Bugatti!

He was either side of 6K plus RPMs almost the entire time.

 

[clemson85]

Good thread. Thanks for the advice on the stereo settings. I tried the one with the 8-4-2 and it sounds great via apple CarPlay and Spotify.

 

[guitarguy]

Thanks for all the info. I spent 35 years as an Audio Producer/Engineer, and I just got my 2019 GT1 recently, I believe this has the 15 spkr HK system. I spent about 15 minutes trying to tune it.

First, when using Android Auto, is the audio really going thru the usb cable or bluetooth? It was hard to tell, when I turned BT off all audio stopped.

Everyone has different tastes and listens to different genres, so my opinion may be meaningless for others. But here's my take as of now... listening to wave files via Android Auto.

It's good for a factory system, and I've had a few HK stock car systems. Initially over bluetooth and not AA the highs were way too bright. Through AA it was much, much better. The low end is actually not bad for stock, woofers are a little muddy but not awful, subs are good for stock.

I always start with all the DSP crap turned off to tune (Quadra and Onstage etc) , and just use the bass/mid/treble controls and my phone's EQ. Guess I'm a purist but that crap just ruins it for me. For this source material I'm at +5 B, -2 M, -1 T.

Ideally, an aftermarket EQ (or a software upgrade to provide at more robust EQ) would solve a lot of issues. I did download a music app on my phone called Music Player with a 10 band EQ... and that did help quite a bit (Around 230Hz I dropped about 2 db, dropped about 2db@ 8K, and boosted about 2 db at 16k. who knows how accurate those eq's in apps are though).

Again, thanks for all the great info.

 

[Theemfinger]

Thanks for all the info. I spent 35 years as an Audio Producer/Engineer, and I just got my 2019 GT1 recently, I believe this has the 15 spkr HK system. I spent about 15 minutes trying to tune it. I do need to try the flash drive or android auto when I have some time, that may yield better results.

Everyone has different tastes and listens to different genres, so my opinion may be meaningless for others. But here's my take as of now... listening to wave files over bluetooth (not sure if the Stinger has aptX... anyone know?):

It's ok for a factory system, and I've had a few HK stock car systems... not a fan. The low end is actually not bad for stock, woofers are a little muddy but not awful, subs are good for stock. The mids and tweeters sound terrible, but I believe that's more due to a very unnatural boost in the 4k-10k range, probably due to some poorly tuned DSP at the head or the amp. Such a shame, because the mid drivers and tweeters do sound clean, there's just too much boost going on there.

One of the best car audio systems I had was in a 2005 BMW 330xi with an aftermarket system I put in... Pioneer head, 10 spkrs plus 12" sub in the trunk. The drivers were all excellent, but the key to that system, and any system really, is the EQ. IIRC that Pioneer head had a 9 band EQ plus separate EQ and LP filters for the sub... everything you could need. If that was a 10, this HK is maybe a 4 or 5.

I always start with all the DSP crap turned off to tune (Quadra and Onstage etc) , and just use the bass/mid/treble controls. Guess I'm a purist but that crap just ruins it for me. For this source material I'm at +8 B, -4 M, -8 T. And it's still not right... needs more reduction around 7-8k and a small boost around 9-10k but at least the highs aren't overpowering.

Ideally, an aftermarket EQ (or a software upgrade to provide at more robust EQ) should solve a lot of issues. If I can't get it sounding better I may look into that, or possibly adding a capacitor to bleed some high end off. I just saw that it's SPdif from the head so that could make it a little hard to find a good EQ. If I do I'll be sure to post back.
Again, thanks for all the great info.

I have the same issue and created a thread here about swapping the tweeters. During this time I spent some time making some crude measurements of the signal and speakers. I used my audioengine speaker from my pc which is fairly flat. The factory is doing a lot of extra EQ On the mid and tweeter and both the mid and tweeter signal was basically identical. You can see the differences in the signal between the factory source and PC. The mid is active high pass and no low pass. The tweeter is high passed using a 4.7microfarad capacitor. I ended up swapping the factory tweeter out and I enjoy the sound much more now.

 

[guitarguy]

Thanks. I just edited my post after listening through Android Auto, much better. Going through Bluetooth by itself is definitely too bright, thru AA it sounds much more balanced on the high end. Which tweeters did you end up using?

 

[RedCal]

Thanks for all the info. I spent 35 years as an Audio Producer/Engineer, and I just got my 2019 GT1 recently, I believe this has the 15 spkr HK system. I spent about 15 minutes trying to tune it.

First, when using Android Auto, is the audio really going thru the usb cable or bluetooth? It was hard to tell, when I turned BT off all audio stopped.

Everyone has different tastes and listens to different genres, so my opinion may be meaningless for others. But here's my take as of now... listening to wave files via Android Auto.

It's good for a factory system, and I've had a few HK stock car systems. Initially over bluetooth and not AA the highs were way too bright. Through AA it was much, much better. The low end is actually not bad for stock, woofers are a little muddy but not awful, subs are good for stock.

I always start with all the DSP crap turned off to tune (Quadra and Onstage etc) , and just use the bass/mid/treble controls and my phone's EQ. Guess I'm a purist but that crap just ruins it for me. For this source material I'm at +5 B, -2 M, -1 T.

Ideally, an aftermarket EQ (or a software upgrade to provide at more robust EQ) would solve a lot of issues. I did download a music app on my phone called Music Player with a 10 band EQ... and that did help quite a bit (Around 230Hz I dropped about 2 db, dropped about 2db@ 8K, and boosted about 2 db at 16k. who knows how accurate those eq's in apps are though).

Again, thanks for all the great info.

Pretty sure it isn't AptX... But I use AA 90% of the time (Tidal for music)

 

[guitarguy]

Pretty sure it isn't AptX... But I use AA 90% of the time (Tidal for music)

So when using AA is the signal going over Bluetooth or through the USB cable? For AA to work it seems I have to have Bluetooth and location enabled. Turning Bluetooth off stops all audio playback.

 

[RVance]

Thanks for all the info. I spent 35 years as an Audio Producer/Engineer, and I just got my 2019 GT1 recently, I believe this has the 15 spkr HK system. I spent about 15 minutes trying to tune it.

First, when using Android Auto, is the audio really going thru the usb cable or bluetooth? It was hard to tell, when I turned BT off all audio stopped.

Everyone has different tastes and listens to different genres, so my opinion may be meaningless for others. But here's my take as of now... listening to wave files via Android Auto.

It's good for a factory system, and I've had a few HK stock car systems. Initially over bluetooth and not AA the highs were way too bright. Through AA it was much, much better. The low end is actually not bad for stock, woofers are a little muddy but not awful, subs are good for stock.

I always start with all the DSP crap turned off to tune (Quadra and Onstage etc) , and just use the bass/mid/treble controls and my phone's EQ. Guess I'm a purist but that crap just ruins it for me. For this source material I'm at +5 B, -2 M, -1 T.

Ideally, an aftermarket EQ (or a software upgrade to provide at more robust EQ) would solve a lot of issues. I did download a music app on my phone called Music Player with a 10 band EQ... and that did help quite a bit (Around 230Hz I dropped about 2 db, dropped about 2db@ 8K, and boosted about 2 db at 16k. who knows how accurate those eq's in apps are though).

Again, thanks for all the great info.

Have you tried a higher resolution source source than your phone? My Apple Lossless iPod files sound pretty fine.

 

[7Andrei7]

@guitarguy I'm not sure about AA but when I connect my phone through Carplay the Head Unit turns off the BT automatically. You could check to see if it does the same with AA. That would answer the questions.

 

[Bigbikes]

Thanks for all the info. I spent 35 years as an Audio Producer/Engineer, and I just got my 2019 GT1 recently, I believe this has the 15 spkr HK system. I spent about 15 minutes trying to tune it.

First, when using Android Auto, is the audio really going thru the usb cable or bluetooth? It was hard to tell, when I turned BT off all audio stopped.

Everyone has different tastes and listens to different genres, so my opinion may be meaningless for others. But here's my take as of now... listening to wave files via Android Auto.

It's good for a factory system, and I've had a few HK stock car systems. Initially over bluetooth and not AA the highs were way too bright. Through AA it was much, much better. The low end is actually not bad for stock, woofers are a little muddy but not awful, subs are good for stock.

I always start with all the DSP crap turned off to tune (Quadra and Onstage etc) , and just use the bass/mid/treble controls and my phone's EQ. Guess I'm a purist but that crap just ruins it for me. For this source material I'm at +5 B, -2 M, -1 T.

Ideally, an aftermarket EQ (or a software upgrade to provide at more robust EQ) would solve a lot of issues. I did download a music app on my phone called Music Player with a 10 band EQ... and that did help quite a bit (Around 230Hz I dropped about 2 db, dropped about 2db@ 8K, and boosted about 2 db at 16k. who knows how accurate those eq's in apps are though).

Again, thanks for all the great info.

Hi there won't everyones audio sound different because of the main source files they're streaming to head unit ?
IE : Spotify etc...I personally stream using Youtube Music as i can choose the highest quality available to get the best sound, I also play my FLAC files from either usb stick or via phone be it cable or bluetooth. I have the unit set for REF as it supposed to be as intended to listen, overall I'm very happy with the system...but as you say everyones hearing is different..Cheers

 

[RedCal]

So when using AA is the signal going over Bluetooth or through the USB cable? For AA to work it seems I have to have Bluetooth and location enabled. Turning Bluetooth off stops all audio playback.

I am pretty certain that playback is all via USB, (because if you unplug the cable it stops) the BT thing maybe a holdover from passed implementations. (You can use AA without connecting via USB... just not with app support, Waze, etc)

 

[RedCal]

Hi there won't everyones audio sound different because of the main source files they're streaming to head unit ?
IE : Spotify etc...I personally stream using Youtube Music as i can choose the highest quality available to get the best sound, I also play my FLAC files from either usb stick or via phone be it cable or bluetooth. I have the unit set for REF as it supposed to be as intended to listen, overall I'm very happy with the system...but as you say everyones hearing is different..Cheers

Source files (and how they are encoded) will absolutely impact audio performance... in this day and age everyone should be streaming HiRes audio from a Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon HD, etc... We have options and the data rates are cheap.

 

[guitarguy]

@guitarguy I'm not sure about AA but when I connect my phone through Carplay the Head Unit turns off the BT automatically. You could check to see if it does the same with AA. That would answer the questions.

Nope BT stays on. If i turn it off playback stops. Same with disconnecting the cable...it turns off. Sounds better through AA vs just BT, so i think it's going thru the USB. Need to try a thumb drive.

And yeah, file source is crucial. I have several reference songs I use to check mixes and they're all wav.

Re: ipod, unfortunately my iPod classic's not with me. I don't think that would make a big difference, especially since you're taking the analog out from the iPod into the aux in.

 

[guitarguy]

I can't post the link but search for an article by auto evolution on why Android auto needs Bluetooth.
According to this article, all music goes over the USB cable. Bluetooth is solely for phone calls. And that's why you need both for AA to work.

That's a good thing, I'd rather send a digital signal over a cable then Bluetooth. Bluetooth wasn't really meant for high fidelity sound.

 

[stoopid]

That's a good thing, I'd rather send a digital signal over a cable then Bluetooth. Bluetooth wasn't really meant for high fidelity sound.

BT is definitely limited on bandwidth, but can pass 320kbps MP3 audio fine and for most people, factoring road noise, there won't be a discernable difference between 320kbps MP3 and higher resolution FLAC or WAV. In other words, the details lost in compressing the audio to (quality 320kbps) MP3 were not going to be heard anyway with road/engine noise. I've been pleased thus far with streaming over BT, I've always avoided it but with no spare USB jack for a thumb drive I was forced to try BT as my primary audio source in the Stinger and it sounds fine.

None of this applies to quiet, proper listening environments where the differences in audio formats actually matters and the details lost from compression could be noticed. I only own (several pairs of) wired headphones for that very reason.

 

[RedCal]

BT is definitely limited on bandwidth, but can pass 320kbps MP3 audio fine and for most people, factoring road noise, there won't be a discernable difference between 320kbps MP3 and higher resolution FLAC or WAV. In other words, the details lost in compressing the audio to (quality 320kbps) MP3 were not going to be heard anyway with road/engine noise. I've been pleased thus far with streaming over BT, I've always avoided it but with no spare USB jack for a thumb drive I was forced to try BT as my primary audio source in the Stinger and it sounds fine.

None of this applies to quiet, proper listening environments where the differences in audio formats actually matters and the details lost from compression could be noticed. I only own (several pairs of) wired headphones for that very reason.

You can tell the difference between a good MP3, and good FLAC file while driving - MP3's destroy the high and low end, road noise is going to be speed dependant and 600Hz-1500, so not in the same bandwidth... Can you enjoy it fully while driving... not really, but why cheat yourself... it's not like storage or data rates are expensive anymore

 

[stoopid]

You can tell the difference between a good MP3, and good FLAC file while driving - MP3's destroy the high and low end, road noise is going to be speed dependant and 600Hz-1500, so not in the same bandwidth... Can you enjoy it fully while driving... not really, but why cheat yourself... it's not like storage or data rates are expensive anymore

It's not necessarily just about frequency range, the volume (decibels, aka "sound intensity") being produced can drown out other frequencies (much in the same way a sudden extremely loud noise can cause all other sounds to be muffled). Think train passing by and not being able to hear the birds singing in the tree next to you. Road noise is at a fairly high volume, and drowns out and competes with more than just the frequencies produced by the road/engine. That's why we have to raise the volume on the car stereo to hear all frequencies, not just those in direct competition with the road/engine. Otherwise we could all just EQ with the mids increased and never have to touch the volume on the car stereo.

If you can hear the difference between a FLAC and high bitrate MP3 while driving, then that's unfortunate for you. I can't. [the key point in my assertion is *high bitrate* MP3, not the bullshit most people steal music or incorrectly rip themselves at 128kbps, etc. 320kbps captures most of the necessary music signal, and doesn't exhibit many of the problems heard at lower bitrates - that's the point of compressing less/at a higher bitrate]

 

[RVance]

Source files (and how they are encoded) will absolutely impact audio performance... in this day and age everyone should be streaming HiRes audio from a Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon HD, etc... We have options and the data rates are cheap.

I agree to a point. Most of these streaming apps are selling a load of BS, though. If their source material isn't "Hi-Res," then all the bits in their buckets won't sound better. Virtually ALL their sources were recorded at CD Redbook quality, which is fine for automobile environments. But they are claiming better sound than that, which is not possible. HIGHER res streaming is superior to MP3 quality, of course, but these companies are claiming quality above their source, lol.

 

[RedCal]

I agree to a point. Most of these streaming apps are selling a load of BS, though. If their source material isn't "Hi-Res," then all the bits in their buckets won't sound better. Virtually ALL their sources were recorded at CD Redbook quality, which is fine for automobile environments. But they are claiming better sound than that, which is not possible. HIGHER res streaming is superior to MP3 quality, of course, but these companies are claiming quality above their source, lol.

This is a very incorrect assumption, recording studios have been recording and mastering in higher that 16/44 for a very long time... and older analogue recordings have been remastered to high res... why? A. because the record labels make money doing it. B. An album that was mastered for vinyl has to be different than one mastered for any other medium (RIAA EQ, and gain limits) C. Preserving the recording - Tape has a finite shelf life, and every playback is detrimental to the tape.