Harmon Kardon Sound System

[Kimberly Lazarski]

I've been reading pretty much every thread I can make the time to read and there are a few things I'd like to clarify:

• Speaker drivers are broken in, in mere seconds at anything at or above moderate volume. The idea of a speaker's taking weeks to break in is nonsense and attributable to the placebo effect (you expect it to sound better with time, so it does). Want to break it in quickly? queue up some metal and crank it up for a few seconds. Bang. Done. It's broken in as soon as the spider (the stiff bit that dampens and limits the voicecoil's movement and keeps it centered around the magnet) flexes a few times and the ferrofluid is dispersed. It only degrades from that point forward in time.
  
• Impedance cannot measured with an ohmmeter; impedance is a measure of a combination of resistance and reactance, and varies with frequency. A 4 ohm driver may or may not measure 4 ohms with an ohmmeter. It will not present 4 ohms at every freqeuency, but if you average impedance at different frequencies throughout a driver's rated frequency response range, it will average 4 ohms. Some frequencies may have 2 ohms impedance, and other frequencies may have 6 ohms impedance, for the same driver
  
• The sound system can sound only as good as the worst-quality component. The head unit + amp are the weakest link here since the Stinger's head unit doesn't seem to put out a standard S/PDIF signal but a proprietary superset so you need to tap through the proprietary amplifier made components where the final selection was by beancounters rather than engineers

I already have my mods planned out: pulling felt out of the speaker grills, possibly replace all the drivers, possibly adding tweeters (with inline attenuators) on the dashboard, and a custom MDF+fibreglass woofer enclosure in one of the corners of the hatchback driven by an amp with a high damping factor, knowing it will only sound as good as the incoming signal through the Head unit - > stock amp -> LOC, with both the stock amp and the LOC degrading the signal somewhat post-DAC.

Also, I saw BOSE mentioned in here and questions about how GM's systems sound: zr1.net members were always fond of saying "No highs, no lows, must be BOSE." Those GM systems sound like utter crap, with the only reason for keeping it being that the system coordinates nice in the interior. The drivers in the speaker enclosures were crap, the amps built into the speaker enclosures were crap and prone to repeated failures, and the sound quality was total crap. When I see the BOSE name in a car I do not expect much, and I am therefore never disappointed. I do expect more from HK, B&O, etc. and for a factory system the Stinger sounded pretty OK, but doesn't compare to even to a $3,000 aftermarket system.

Also, don't waste big money on monster cable or any other boutique brands; they don't improve your sound. Just get some shielded monoprice interconnects, and spring for monoprice OFC speaker cable because it tends to be more flexible but don't expect the sound to be any better than zip cord, and be done with it and put the money you saved toward an EVC exhaust or other go-fast items.

My first business was doing custom car audio and alarm systems... until I got tired of dealing with teenagers.

 

[MerlintheMad]

My first business was doing custom car audio and alarm systems... until I got tired of dealing with teenagers.

The smiley is for your parting comment/judgment of the largest demographic of the human population.

I would give you an "Informative" icon too, but we're limited to one.

My "gunshot ears" don't care anymore. I'm just glad that 95% of the "fuzz" went away, or I probably would not listen to music anymore.

The Stinger's HK sound system is good. And it did get better over time. I never did push Heavy Metal or anything else through it as per your recommendation: and would not have, even if you had happened along early in my relationship with my car. I believe in "moderation in all things" and this includes volume/decibel output. This is ten times more true when my wife is in the car with me: and mostly I just turn it OFF when we're together: too frustrating trying to agree on what to listen to and then how quiet (never "how loud"). Heh.

 

[Kimberly Lazarski]

FWIW I was barely older than they were and totally get where they were coming from... but at the time decent amps weren't $200 and they all wanted to get 1000 watt amps with 18" subs in custom inbuilt boxes for a total budget of $200. Um, yeah.... no. Even wholesale at the time decent subs started at around $75, and it wasn't good 18" subs.

The worst was this Buick GNX owner who wanted a super fancy radar-equipped proximity and impact alarm so she would know if someone is leaning against the car or if it got tapped even lightly (yeah I get it.. reasonable because she lived in the crappy part of town) but also didn't want it to go off if cats jumped on it. #HowDoesTechnologyWork

 

[me&stinger]

Years back amps had little watts but enormous prices. Trends have gone to cheaper amps with bigger watts.

I'm so out of touch these days.

 

[Kimberly Lazarski]

Yeah.
I'm amazed that 1200wrms amps can be had for under $300 now, from good brands.
However, it's not a good business to get into these days because the factory head units are so integrated you need to mangle the dash and do a lot of custom fab work, and you can't trust the signal coming out of the head unit is standard line level or S/PDIF and few people are willing to pay what your time is worth, or give up the stock look. The really bad part about this is the infotainment system is one of the first thing auto makers stop making parts available for, sometimes before the warranty is even out. Want to fix your stereo? Buy a new car. This is where I will be cursing the auto maker and wishing the car had a double-DIN cutout in the dash >_<

 

[StungBlueGT2]

OMG, thank you!

I turned it off when I first tried it when I bought the car. With this thread being resurrected I took an honest stab at it again.

EDIT: I misunderstood. I have Clari-Fi off for sure but the following statement is about the Quantum Logic Surround, which I HATE.

2/10. Do Not Like.

First thing, it actually hurts my ears a little, like on volume 6 even. I don't know what it is but it pounds my ear drums a bit. I also hate turning my head for a head check and the sound all switching places on me... I don't know how to describe it but it's a positional sound fail that relies on listener orientation. But most of all, it sound artificial and digitized to all hell. Yes, there's a "boost" to the volume and sound, and some sections of music absolutely sound more full, but usually I'm left with a fake metallic sound to my music. (This is with the On Stage setting too.)

For the record, I don't want crazy bass and have always preferred a treble->mid sound in my rock. I have Clari-Fi off too since I use high quality FLACs. I believe my ballpark settings are TREBLE -2 MID +2 BASS +3 or 4. It sounds great for my music.

You’re welcome and interesting explanation. I agree that sometimes the volume is very loud and almost never put mine over 10. 6-9 is usually plenty loud for most audio sources.

However your experience using “on stage” mode doesn’t quite make sense. The clari-fi setting does boosts certain frequencies and sounds artificial, but the Quantum mode only affects imaging and surround sound placement. I believe it was designed to have optimal imaging for the driver seat so you may notice the placement of certain sounds change if you’re moving around or not in a normal driving position. However, the “on stage” mode shouldn’t sound digitized or add any metallic sound to your music, unless used with clari-fi. On Stage mode simply provides and much fuller and omnidirectional characteristic to music vs turning it off. I didn’t notice how empty and front/left biased the stereo was normally until switching between “On Stage” on & off while listening to music.

I do agree and generally don’t like too much bass in my music. However after a lot of testing on a variety of music I found that our mids & highs are naturally too bright and drown out the lows unless they are set between +6 to +8. The downward firing subs response is soft and needs to be boosted to work effectively. Most music sounds better with bass & mids elevated slightly and overall volume down 1-2 notches. Maybe try Clari-Fi off, On Stage on, and add +2 or +3 to your EQ across the board, but drop your volume down a little. Hope that helps and happy tuning.

 

[me&stinger]

Yeah.
I'm amazed that 1200wrms amps can be had for under $300 now, from good brands.
However, it's not a good business to get into these days because the factory head units are so integrated you need to mangle the dash and do a lot of custom fab work, and you can't trust the signal coming out of the head unit is standard line level or S/PDIF and few people are willing to pay what your time is worth, or give up the stock look. The really bad part about this is the infotainment system is one of the first thing auto makers stop making parts available for, sometimes before the warranty is even out. Want to fix your stereo? Buy a new car. This is where I will be cursing the auto maker and wishing the car had a double-DIN cutout in the dash >_<

The days of the single/double din head units are becoming less and less. The integrated head unit is kind of cool but not nearly as flexible or efficient as I'd like it to be. Even with all the cool features it has if I had the chance I'd swap it out in a heart beat. Then again I've been losing confidence in the after-market either. It really seems like the quality has gone downward in favor for cheaper price tags. It's good for the consumer I guess but not someone like myself who has expectations of what good car audio ought to be. In my eyes it all starts with a good head unit. I am willing to pay for quality components but even then, like I mentioned earlier somewhere here, I'm too complacent to do anything. My drive to strip the car down to the chassis has rode into the sunset. As it currently stands it looks like my Zapco amps and Focal speakers will never see the day of light out of their boxes.

 

[Revvdmedia]

More than just the integration of the head units making single/double DIN obsolete is the fact the manufacturers are tying significant functionality into the factory head units such as HVAC. Imagine having no screen to show what the temperature is because you swapped the head unit out if a new one fit lol.

There are a few aftermarket solutions that do maintain this though, I recall that on the Mustang with some Chinese aftermarket units, but I think tying in features is making it even more difficult to make these swaps.

I'll repeat myself that I can't get over the fact they don't offer an advanced equalizer in modern cars, allowing 7+ bands of EQ settings. Surely nothing more than an extra screen and software programming will do the trick. 3 bands is not nearly enough to fine tune the sound the way you want, too much frequency overlap.

 

[MerlintheMad]

3 bands is not nearly enough to fine tune the sound the way you want, too much frequency overlap.

Is this another way of saying, "I can't understand a word you say when you mumble?" Because I have no capacity to "fine tune" to that degree, not with my ears I don't.

 

[me&stinger]

One of the issues with the HK (15 speaker system) is that the frequencies bleed into each other. The result is muddled sound. The Bass, Mid, and Treble settings are not adequate to counter this.

I wish there was a way to adjust frequencies with greater control. I want the ability to set the cut-offs and slopes. A 30-band EQ would be a nice start. I wonder if Kia provides software updates for our systems?

*cough*

 

[RIck-F]

No Highs; No Lows - Must be Bose.

The three cars (2 M-Bs and a BMW) I had before the Stinger all had H-K systems. In my recollection, the BMW had the best sound with FLAC files. With MP3 files, I don't recall any difference. I find the sound in the Stinger to be comparable to that of the Mercedes --- but then I have "tin ears". My late brother was a sound engineer for a well know radio station and he work in recording studios various artists. He always told me I had a tin ear because I just did not hear things he did . . .

 

[Aarvix]

I miss my minidsp and REW filters

 

[andrew tay]

I've been reading pretty much every thread I can make the time to read and there are a few things I'd like to clarify:

• Speaker drivers are broken in, in mere seconds at anything at or above moderate volume. The idea of a speaker's taking weeks to break in is nonsense and attributable to the placebo effect (you expect it to sound better with time, so it does). Want to break it in quickly? queue up some metal and crank it up for a few seconds. Bang. Done. It's broken in as soon as the spider (the stiff bit that dampens and limits the voicecoil's movement and keeps it centered around the magnet) flexes a few times and the ferrofluid is dispersed. It only degrades from that point forward in time.
  
• Impedance cannot measured with an ohmmeter; impedance is a measure of a combination of resistance and reactance, and varies with frequency. A 4 ohm driver may or may not measure 4 ohms with an ohmmeter. It will not present 4 ohms at every freqeuency, but if you average impedance at different frequencies throughout a driver's rated frequency response range, it will average 4 ohms. Some frequencies may have 2 ohms impedance, and other frequencies may have 6 ohms impedance, for the same driver
  
• The sound system can sound only as good as the worst-quality component. The head unit + amp are the weakest link here since the Stinger's head unit doesn't seem to put out a standard S/PDIF signal but a proprietary superset so you need to tap through the proprietary amplifier made components where the final selection was by beancounters rather than engineers

I already have my mods planned out: pulling felt out of the speaker grills, possibly replace all the drivers, possibly adding tweeters (with inline attenuators) on the dashboard, and a custom MDF+fibreglass woofer enclosure in one of the corners of the hatchback driven by an amp with a high damping factor, knowing it will only sound as good as the incoming signal through the Head unit - > stock amp -> LOC, with both the stock amp and the LOC degrading the signal somewhat post-DAC.

Also, I saw BOSE mentioned in here and questions about how GM's systems sound: zr1.net members were always fond of saying "No highs, no lows, must be BOSE." Those GM systems sound like utter crap, with the only reason for keeping it being that the system coordinates nice in the interior. The drivers in the speaker enclosures were crap, the amps built into the speaker enclosures were crap and prone to repeated failures, and the sound quality was total crap. When I see the BOSE name in a car I do not expect much, and I am therefore never disappointed. I do expect more from HK, B&O, etc. and for a factory system the Stinger sounded pretty OK, but doesn't compare to even to a $3,000 aftermarket system.

Also, don't waste big money on monster cable or any other boutique brands; they don't improve your sound. Just get some shielded monoprice interconnects, and spring for monoprice OFC speaker cable because it tends to be more flexible but don't expect the sound to be any better than zip cord, and be done with it and put the money you saved toward an EVC exhaust or other go-fast items.

My first business was doing custom car audio and alarm systems... until I got tired of dealing with teenagers.[/QUOT
Cpuple of little things
Subwoofer does take time to break in.
The original HK speakers are very poor quality speakers.
The original HK processor and amp is not too bad, better than a lot of others. I did pretty well with just add amps with
Line converter

 

[DT88]

I picked up a GT Limited earlier this week, which contains the 15 speaker surround sound system. I broke the speakers in at low volume for a few hours, and have been trialing it at different volumes and tones. Currently, the bass is +3, mid at +6, and treble at +5, with Clarify and On-stage options selected. Mostly, I listen to rock, alternative, and pop.

It's a little lackluster.

While it is no Bang and Olufsen or Bowers and Wilkens system, I was hoping for a little higher sound levels and quality.

I'm now looking into replacing the lows and tweeters in each door, and perhaps the subwoofers (I don't believe the mids or center speaker are feasibly replaceable). Either Hertz Mille or some sort of JL speakers are at the top of my list for aftermarkets.

I've never replaced stock speakers in a brand new car like this, and I'm a little lost as to a starting point. Is the amplifier hidden somewhere, or is each speaker individually and locally amplified? Are component wires, coaxial cables, or fibre optic cables run to each speaker? If the speakers are replaced, would this void the basic and extended warranty on the infotainment system?

If anyone has dug up some detailed info regarding the specifications of the sound system, or if you have comments on the sound systems installed in the Stinger, please drop a reply!

I love the HK sound a lot. Idk maybe it is because it’s a hell of a lot better than anything I have had in any car before this one.

 

[Jklotz]

I was an audio engineer for 20 years. One of the tricks we used to do when mixing a record was to burn a CD and take it to the car to do a listening test. The idea was we know our cars audio system better than most because the amount of time we spend listening to them, and that is they way most folks will end up hearing our final product. As good as the studio monitors we were using were, in a tuned control room, it was always interesting to hear what a car stereo would reveal about a mix. If I were doing it today, I don't think I'd even bother with the HK system.

I've only had my car 2 weeks, and was out of town for a week of it, so my experience is limited. I do think something is off with the HK system though. I'll try to play with it some more this week and see is I can't come up with some settings that improve the sound. So far, I've just messed with the 3 band eq and I can't seem to find a place where things sound balanced. The bass response seems to have a distinctive 120hz (or thereabouts) bump, but the eq for the bass seems to be more of a shelving type filter, so boosting or cutting is doesn't seem to change the character, just the overall level, which sounds really odd with a lot of material I've listened to. The mids are scooped in an unnatural way and the highs are brittle and have a really grating harmonic distortion thing going on. It's almost like all that processing is creating a phase distortion that blurs everything.

Like I said, I'll mess with it some more when I get time and report back if I find a setting that make for a more natural/pleasing listening environment.

 

[jazzdabb]

I've had all my settings on default until today when I finally played around with them. I found turning off ClariFi and setting the On Stage mode made a HUGE difference. ClariFi seems to kill any stereo separation. I didn't realize how flat the sound was before; it's like an entirely new sound system. I also bumped my bass to +6, mid to +4 and left treble flat as the system is unusually "bright" already.

 

[MerlintheMad]

I've had all my settings on default until today when I finally played around with them. I found turning off ClariFi and setting the On Stage mode made a HUGE difference. ClariFi seems to kill any stereo separation. I didn't realize how flat the sound was before; it's like an entirely new sound system. I also bumped my bass to +6, mid to +4 and left treble flat as the system is unusually "bright" already.

That is almost identical to my settings: ClariFi OFF, On Stage, Bass +8, Mid +4, Treble +1. My surround sound is great.

 

[namja]

I've had all my settings on default until today when I finally played around with them. I found turning off ClariFi and setting the On Stage mode made a HUGE difference. ClariFi seems to kill any stereo separation. I didn't realize how flat the sound was before; it's like an entirely new sound system. I also bumped my bass to +6, mid to +4 and left treble flat as the system is unusually "bright" already.

Music source? Music genre?

 

[MerlintheMad]

Music source? Music genre?

USB, a combo of ripped CDs and converted MP4 YouTube videos to MP3. Anything from old rock, heavy metal, to easy listening (Andre Kostelanetz, Paul Mauriat), classical, techno, I think I have pretty much everything covered except rap.

 

[namja]

USB, a combo of ripped CDs and converted MP4 YouTube videos to MP3. Anything from old rock, heavy metal, to easy listening (Andre Kostelanetz, Paul Mauriat), classical, techno, I think I have pretty much everything covered except rap.

Is my question even valid? Like does quality get affected depending on USB vs Bluetooth Audio, etc?
As for me, I'll tend to listen to bass-heavy music (hip-hop, rap, dubstep, drum n bass, etc) and I find bass +6 is "good" but +8~10 would be the best But when I turn the volume knob to 15 or higher, the music quality tends to get distorted...probably because my treble is +5?