EK1Pro Tune - Sixth Element

[ICE_TT_3.3]

Did the BEF with great results, timing now is in the 19 to 21 range. Slight improvement with the butt dyno, but most noticeably how smoother it is under WOT. As usual and since 2018 when I first got the JB4, Terry is always very responsive and great to work with. The pop/burble in the BEF is good as well, starts at the 2k range and is loudest at around 3-4k.

On a separate note, still haven't found a source for a TCU flash. I don't think this is something I wan't somebody to adjust as he goes or use me as the guinea pig, it will have to be somebody with an already tested TCU tune, so that would put N75 out of the equation I guess. I know Terry has this in mind so will wait on it, hopefully sooner than later.

Was there an up charge for this additional timing from running aux fuel? I’m assuming so, but just trying to get a picture of pricing difference from the $75 BEF.

I think I saw Terry mentioned he could add another 20-30whp from running e40-50 with utilizing the BEF and CPI or higher octane via meth so sounds like it should be a nice performance increase over straight jb4 maps.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Dif

I wonder what the real differences are with the TCU ID's as well as the ECU ID's

my TCU is SCK0T33NH0

does the GB1 just go for the year or also the RWD?

mine is NH0, and i'm a 22 GT2 with AWD

slightly different hardware and software revisions. I cant say much more than that without getting too technical.

 

[Seeing_Red]

Sooo maybe I'm doing something wrong here but I'm trying to read the ECU ID after receiving my EK1 Lite and it's saying the car is not responding (See attached pic for the message). I have updated the firmware which I know I did correctly as I initially did not have the "read ECU ID" option which appeared after the update.

Am I missing something?

Thanks everyone

Edit: I did choose the Siemens SIM2K 260 ECU by the way

 

[STINGER]

Was there an up charge for this additional timing from running aux fuel? I’m assuming so, but just trying to get a picture of pricing difference from the $75 BEF.

I think I saw Terry mentioned he could add another 20-30whp from running e40-50 with utilizing the BEF and CPI or higher octane via meth so sounds like it should be a nice performance increase over straight jb4 maps.

My understanding is that I got the pump fuel race map BEF, it costed me 75$. Lots of small changes are done in the BEF, like raising some thresholds, adjust the ignition dwell, but I think the main power adder here for your average JB4 user is the additional 2-4 degrees of timing that are added. The advance timing should add 20-30hp, the smiling from the added exhaust popping though is priceless.

 

[Seeing_Red]

Sooo maybe I'm doing something wrong here but I'm trying to read the ECU ID after receiving my EK1 Lite and it's saying the car is not responding (See attached pic for the message). I have updated the firmware which I know I did correctly as I initially did not have the "read ECU ID" option which appeared after the update.

Am I missing something?

Thanks everyone

Edit: I did choose the Siemens SIM2K 260 ECU by the way

I'm not a smart man.. I was only pressing the power button once and not twice. The "accessory power" message on my dash after one press had me fooled. I no longer have a problem lol

 

[ICE_TT_3.3]

My understanding is that I got the pump fuel race map BEF, it costed me 75$. Lots of small changes are done in the BEF, like raising some thresholds, adjust the ignition dwell, but I think the main power adder here for your average JB4 user is the additional 2-4 degrees of timing that are added. The advance timing should add 20-30hp, the smiling from the added exhaust popping though is priceless.

Good stuff! Sounds like a nice value for $75.

 

[STINGER]

Good stuff! Sounds like a nice value for $75.

Excellent value and still having the JB4 with the ability to switch maps on the fly never gets old.

 

[rbf351]

Dif

slightly different hardware and software revisions. I cant say much more than that without getting too technical.

would love to know the technical aspect of it. It's what I do for a living.

usually most things even with different hardware will use the same software as they code all the differences into it. So wondering why there has to be so many different tunes instead of 1 that works for them all.

There is no way kia is running different software for every version of the TCU they have

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

would love to know the technical aspect of it. It's what I do for a living.

usually most things even with different hardware will use the same software as they code all the differences into it. So wondering why there has to be so many different tunes instead of 1 that works for them all.

There is no way kia is running different software for every version of the TCU they have

Unfortunately I don't want to say anything because I'm not sure how much nathan has put out there publicly, so I don't want to be that guy.

 

[rpoffen]

would love to know the technical aspect of it. It's what I do for a living.

usually most things even with different hardware will use the same software as they code all the differences into it. So wondering why there has to be so many different tunes instead of 1 that works for them all.

There is no way kia is running different software for every version of the TCU they have

I doubt that they rewrite the actual FW for any kind of tune, but I imagine that there are tables of parameters for just about every aspect of the running of the engine such as fuel maps, boost curves, timing, ignition, etc. Tuners just tweak these values in different combinations to get the desired effect.

 

[Yves998]

Just a quick update on stage2 flat boost. It’s amazing.

 

[nathan@sxth]

would love to know the technical aspect of it. It's what I do for a living.

usually most things even with different hardware will use the same software as they code all the differences into it. So wondering why there has to be so many different tunes instead of 1 that works for them all.

There is no way kia is running different software for every version of the TCU they have

Hyundai Kefico (ECU division) has a different calibration s/w for each TCU type.

For example, each part number has it's own software, and this software can be updated but will also gain a new ID. Same goes for the ECU.

The ECU has three main parts: bootloader, ASW (Application Software) and calibration area. The bootloader is the program that runs when the ECU is powered on. It checks the integrity of the ASW and loads it into the memory. The ASW is the program that contains the logic and algorithms for controlling the engine. It reads inputs from sensors and outputs commands to actuators. The calibration area is the part of the memory that stores the parameters and settings for the ASW.

The calibration area is what we change here but you cannot just flash any calibration area because it would no longer match the other data and the TCU would be bricked.

 

[MFNTRBO]

Ok, so for those that have been helping and following me through my horrible timing issues and crazy 27 lbs. of boost here's an update:
I bought an uploaded the BMS BEF flash from Terry, rest my ECU by disconnecting battery for 15 mins then drove the car around for about 100 or so miles to let the ECU re-learn. Did pulls on Map 0, 1 and 2 and sent them to Terry. The BEF was incredible and I got smooth boost that never went above 22 and the shifting was smoother and power delivery was instant. Most importantly my timing never went above 3.1 The BEF superseded the Sxth Stage 2 tune and I lost ISG disable feature. No biggie, I just jammed a piece of ziptie into the ISG button like I've been doing for the last year and a half and had the Poor Man's ISG disable set.

And then...

Nathan sent me the Stage 2 revision with reduced boost. I was hesitant to flash it into my ECU because my car was finally running smooth with the JB4 Map 2 and back end flash but another part of me didn't want to blow the $450 I had invested into the Sxth tune so I flashed it in and did some pulls with the JB4 on Map 0.

Car felt good but my timing is whacky again. Got as high as 10.5 on IGN 6. My boost went up to 24.4 and this is on 93 octane fuel from a top tier gas station. I attached the log. Is there Map 6 corrections I can make? I do have plans for CPI as I don't have faith in the fuel in Illinois. Fuel-It Kit gets installed today then getting an intercooler with CPI port then the BMS CPI kit soon.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[G70LEbyAdoom]

Ok, so for those that have been helping and following me through my horrible timing issues and crazy 27 lbs. of boost here's an update:
I bought an uploaded the BMS BEF flash from Terry, rest my ECU by disconnecting battery for 15 mins then drove the car around for about 100 or so miles to let the ECU re-learn. Did pulls on Map 0, 1 and 2 and sent them to Terry. The BEF was incredible and I got smooth boost that never went above 22 and the shifting was smoother and power delivery was instant. Most importantly my timing never went above 3.1 The BEF superseded the Sxth Stage 2 tune and I lost ISG (Idle Stop and Go) disable feature. No biggie, I just jammed a piece of ziptie into the ISG (Idle Stop and Go) button like I've been doing for the last year and a half and had the Poor Man's ISG (Idle Stop and Go) disable set.

And then...

Nathan sent me the Stage 2 revision with reduced boost. I was hesitant to flash it into my ECU because my car was finally running smooth with the JB4 Map 2 and back end flash but another part of me didn't want to blow the $450 I had invested into the Sxth tune so I flashed it in and did some pulls with the JB4 on Map 0.

Car felt good but my timing is whacky again. Got as high as 10.5 on IGN 6. My boost went up to 24.4 and this is on 93 octane fuel from a top tier gas station. I attached the log. Is there Map 6 corrections I can make? I do have plans for CPI as I don't have faith in the fuel in Illinois. Fuel-It Kit gets installed today then getting an intercooler with CPI port then the BMS CPI kit soon.

Any help would be appreciated.

Man your car is way out of whack. send nathan that log then flash back to Terry's. Its def something with your car though. Im guessing it just has to do with terrys experience reading the JB4 data compared to nathans, cuz on the other end of the spectrum, Nathan gave me a new beta version of the stage 2 TCU tune and Methanol ECU tune and god damn.... doing some test pulls the thing feels like a rocket ship. I did a 20ish to 110ish and I swear I blinked around 70mph and missed about 10mph in that time...

 

[afn_kia]

That's what I meant about the EWG wires

So if I had JB4 with EWG wires I should avoid the ek1 products entirely for now? This is the first I’ve seen this and I was about to pull trigger on the Pro.

Man if so that’s a massive bummer. I’m ready for an ECU/TCU tune and I really like what the EK1 has to offer.


Nathan/Terry- is there current efforts being made towards a solution on this? Or am I going to never be able to run an EK1 appropriately since I had JB4+EWGs?

 

[Yves998]

So if I had JB4 with EWG wires I should avoid the ek1 products entirely for now? This is the first I’ve seen this and I was about to pull trigger on the Pro.

Man if so that’s a massive bummer. I’m ready for an ECU/TCU tune and I really like what the EK1 has to offer.


Nathan/Terry- is there current efforts being made towards a solution on this? Or am I going to never be able to run an EK1 appropriately since I had JB4+EWGs?

You should just use it as a flash tool that’s it so pro is not necessary at all. You already have JB4 for logging and gauges even if you’re flashing a full tune.

EWG should not and will not mess up with back end flash. Bit 0 and optional bit7 for BEF. Full tunes are the ones that should avoid EWG wires no matter what. Bit 0 5 6 for full tune.

What Nathan mentioned about EWG wires’ problem is it’s possible that you’re able to mess up with some permanent values in the ECU that’s not even flashable. Once those values are fxcked up your boost will be impossible to tune on that specific ECU. A tuned spare ECU would be unaffected. If you’re running BEF that would be irrelevant even if those values are messed up. However it is important to check if your wastegate is off spec out of factory. This is what most people’s “overboosting” problem actually is, simply ask your tuner to dail the boost back is not a real fix.

 

[nathan@sxth]

You should just use it as a flash tool that’s it so pro is not necessary at all. You already have JB4 for logging and gauges even if you’re flashing a full tune.

EWG should not and will not mess up with back end flash. Bit 0 and optional bit7 for BEF. Full tunes are the ones that should avoid EWG wires no matter what. Bit 0 5 6 for full tune.

What Nathan mentioned about EWG wires’ problem is it’s possible that you’re able to mess up with some permanent values in the ECU that’s not even flashable. Once those values are fxcked up your boost will be impossible to tune on that specific ECU. A tuned spare ECU would be unaffected. If you’re running BEF that would be irrelevant even if those values are messed up. However it is important to check if your wastegate is off spec out of factory. This is what most people’s “overboosting” problem actually is, simply ask your tuner to dail the boost back is not a real fix.

Bingo. Perfect synopsis.

 

[cLaw]

You should just use it as a flash tool that’s it so pro is not necessary at all. You already have JB4 for logging and gauges even if you’re flashing a full tune.

EWG should not and will not mess up with back end flash. Bit 0 and optional bit7 for BEF. Full tunes are the ones that should avoid EWG wires no matter what. Bit 0 5 6 for full tune.

What Nathan mentioned about EWG wires’ problem is it’s possible that you’re able to mess up with some permanent values in the ECU that’s not even flashable. Once those values are fxcked up your boost will be impossible to tune on that specific ECU. A tuned spare ECU would be unaffected. If you’re running BEF that would be irrelevant even if those values are messed up. However it is important to check if your wastegate is off spec out of factory. This is what most people’s “overboosting” problem actually is, simply ask your tuner to dail the boost back is not a real fix.

Excuse my ignorance but, Full tune = new ecu and flash is just ek1 lite/pro correct? Im just a little confused as something you said seemed contradictory even though Nathan agrees fully. (This isn't me challenging your statement just trying to learn/understand).

You said "EWG should not and will not mess up with back end flash" and then " EWG wires’ problem is it’s possible that you’re able to mess up with some permanent values in the ECU that’s not even flashable."

Does this not go against each other or am I completely misinterpreting?

 

[Yves998]

Excuse my ignorance but, Full tune = new ecu and flash is just ek1 lite/pro correct? Im just a little confused as something you said seemed contradictory even though Nathan agrees fully. (This isn't me challenging your statement just trying to learn/understand).

You said "EWG should not and will not mess up with back end flash" and then " EWG wires’ problem is it’s possible that you’re able to mess up with some permanent values in the ECU that’s not even flashable."

Does this not go against each other or am I completely misinterpreting?

Full tune simply means a tune that fully controls the car. Opposite of BEF, which you need JB4 as a boost controller.

There are just two topics I’m talking about. The first is about there’s possibility that EWG wires are able to messing up with permanent values to make the current ECU not tunable, second is EWG wires messing up with the function of the tune.

Usually full tunes has it’s own strategies to utilizing our car’s EWG. If you try to override it with JB4, your tune will freak out. Overboost, timing crash or even physical damage to your wastegates is possible. However BEF supposed to left boost untouched, hence EWG wires should be and will be fine to use.

 

[nathan@sxth]

Excuse my ignorance but, Full tune = new ecu and flash is just ek1 lite/pro correct? Im just a little confused as something you said seemed contradictory even though Nathan agrees fully. (This isn't me challenging your statement just trying to learn/understand).

You said "EWG should not and will not mess up with back end flash" and then " EWG wires’ problem is it’s possible that you’re able to mess up with some permanent values in the ECU that’s not even flashable."

Does this not go against each other or am I completely misinterpreting?

Yves998 cleared it up, but just to be hyper clear:

Full Tune = ECU Flash which controls ignition, boost, lambda, etc
Backend = ECU flash which controls ignition, lambda, etc but leaves boost control to a piggyback for more "on the fly" adjustment