Suspension Performance and How to Improve it!

[TonyG]

OK I guess I have to give it a try! Thanks for the feedback

Hey are you racing today? Daegu?

 

[xot1]

Hey are you racing today? Daegu?

No I didn't apply for it. Are you?

 

[TonyG]

No I didn't apply for it. Are you?

Yes!

 

[xot1]

Yes!

Cool! what are your spec?

 

[Not Here Anymore]

It was $324 CDN plus 3.5 hrs labour. Total $750 CDN. In the US the kit is $275 or so. The 3.5 hrs labour will still apply. NO BRAINER!

I did almost the same , got the Eibach springs and also the rear sway bar and of course a wheel alignment this really help a great car to handle even better as our road here in Canada have some interesting humps and bumps

 

[xot1]

In case someone misses it:
Check this out!!! (ECS control module)

 

[Last Lemming Alive]

In case someone misses it:
Check this out!!! (ECS control module)

Agreed. Sways and springs are pointless unless your regularly hard core tracking or just want a lowered car. Even then the ECS makes those mods better. The ECS is the better solution if you just want better handling. Way more flexible, cheaper, and customizable to boot. I have it, so I’m speaking from personal experience.

 

[Manaz]

Sways and springs are pointless unless your regularly hard core tracking or just want a lowered car.

While those things can absolutely help with track cars, regular road-driven cars can benefit from both, particularly with the Stinger where there are definite improvements that can he had. With the stock swaybar setup, I can absolutely upset the rear end of the Stinger on public roads without needing to drive particularly fast.

 

[Last Lemming Alive]

So could I before the ECS

All those things are fixes fire poor or inadequate suspension tuning. Most of which, in this car at least, are down to damper tuning. The ECS corrects for that, therefore sways aren’t needed.

 

[itguy61]

So could I before the ECS

All those things are fixes fire poor or inadequate suspension tuning. Most of which, in this car at least, are down to damper tuning. The ECS corrects for that, therefore sways aren’t needed.

I disagree. I agree the damping is an issue, I believe the rebound damping is not tuned right to begin with. I have installed front and rear sways and they definitely improved the handling. Less body roll is almost always a good thing for handling. Shock damping is not as effective as springs rates and sway bars in this regard. Another big problem as I see it is that they stock rear sway bar was locked and could not freely pivot in the bushings. This effectively made the sway into a torsion bar of sorts. In other word, more springing and therefore amplifying inadequate shock dampening.

The sways are a big improvement and until somebody shows me otherwise I don't believe the ECS tuning will reduce body roll.

Please be advised I did not change springs, just added sways.

 

[Last Lemming Alive]

Sway bars are a bandaid fix for poor damper tuning. Not only that but the more sway bar you add the less independent your suspension. So if you like the idea of being closer to a solid axle suspension so be it.

You say until someone shows otherwise. Well I’m showing otherwise. I’ve modified over 15 of my own cars (all types) with springs, sways, etc over the past 30 years, and this easy replicates what they do at lower overall cost and easy installation and way more flexibility.

This device allows you to tune the suspension to your own liking without having to spend lots of money, and it’s customizable to achieve all the things you are after. Why anyone would want to use a fixed option lower tech solution when a better one exists is beyond me. But hey it’s your car all I know is I’m glad I waited.

 

[SteveCo]

... I don't believe the ECS tuning will reduce body roll.

If you remove the shocks entirely, the car will roll like a drunken pig. If you replace the shocks with solid bars, it will not roll at all.

I think it's reasonable to say that stiffening up the shocks will reduce body roll.

 

[itguy61]

Sway bars are a bandaid fix for poor damper tuning. Not only that but the more sway bar you add the less independent your suspension. So if you like the idea of being closer to a solid axle suspension so be it.

You say until someone shows otherwise. Well I’m showing otherwise. I’ve modified over 15 of my own cars (all types) with springs, sways, etc over the past 30 years, and this easy replicates what they do at lower overall cost and easy installation and way more flexibility.

This device allows you to tune the suspension to your own liking without having to spend lots of money, and it’s customizable to achieve all the things you are after. Why anyone would want to use a fixed option lower tech solution when a better one exists is beyond me. But hey it’s your car all I know is I’m glad I waited.

Sway bars have been being used for many years to tune handling. You seem to need to review what a shock/dampers core function is. It's core function is to damp spring movement. It does not reduce body roll or affect ride height (center of gravity), both of which have significant effect on handling characteristics. Yes, damping is one part of the equation but body roll and spring stiffness are also big factors. The spring rate and damper rate need to be carefully matched to get the best out of them. It is one part of the equation and yes tuning it affects handling but body roll control, ride height and spring rate also affect the handling/ride balance.

You are also totally emitting sway bar tuning's effect on over and under steer characteristics. Those effects are big deal about how the car feels when cornering.

I have been using sway bars, springs and shock mods since I started tuning on my 1980 VW Scirocco S. Done many cars since then. I also managed a very high volume tire/suspension shop for a few years and learned a lot from that.

Bottom line-I believe all three areas are tunable and affect handling.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Sway bars are a bandaid fix for poor damper tuning.

Whatever complex of parts/factors produces poor or good handling: you can't simply say one of those parts/factors is a "bandaid". Start removing "bandaids" and you'll "bleed".

Suspensions used to be simple. Then somebody tried this bar or that damper or the other piece/part and discovered improvement. Copiers tried different diameter pieces/parts, or included holes for adjustment, or dispensed with and invented a new configuration, etc. and etc. and etc.

Then, some genius invented the private computer; and another genius put one in a car; then two of them; then several/many computers, regulating the lot from a central ECU, all sending and receiving, stiffening, relaxing, powering, braking, etc. and etc. and etc.

Now we have a complex MESS! So many pieces/parts to adjust to conform as a cohesive whole, that it's a damned fulltime job! Some relatively sane people don't want to deal with any of that. If a thicker sway bar works on my car to button down the sidestepping or "floaty" rear end, why would I take it off and mess with the ECU (ECS? what's the difference?)? If a change is an improvement, but surely not the only way forward to improvement, my fix becomes your "bandaid"? How so?

 

[G70 Owner]

ECU (ECS? what's the difference?)?

ECU - engine control unit
ECS - electronically controlled suspension

one controls the engine, one controls the adjustable suspension

 

[itguy61]

If you remove the shocks entirely, the car will roll like a drunken pig. If you replace the shocks with solid bars, it will not roll at all.

I think it's reasonable to say that stiffening up the shocks will reduce body roll.

I don't agree, the spring has way more effect on body roll than the shock. The shocks purpose is to provide compression damping on the side of the car that the spring is compressing on, and rebound damping on the side the is decompressing. Basically the shock is there to keep the spring under control and damped the right amount. Stiffer springs reduce body roll and if you use springs that lower the car and reduce the center of gravity that has an effect as well.

If what you guys are saying is true, then everything people have been doing for many years in regards to suspension tuning has been wrong. In all my years of being a sporty car enthusiast suspension tuning has been mainly springs, shocks and sway bars. Some people even mess with bushings.

Sorry I just don't buy that all the tuning issues on this car can be solved entirely with shock adjustments. I own the sway bars and they help a great deal.

 

[SteveCo]

I don't agree, the spring has way more effect on body roll than the shock.

That is different from saying that stiffening the shocks will NOT affect body roll.

 

[Not Here Anymore]

I don't agree, the spring has way more effect on body roll than the shock. The shocks purpose is to provide compression damping on the side of the car that the spring is compressing on, and rebound damping on the side the is decompressing. Basically the shock is there to keep the spring under control and damped the right amount. Stiffer springs reduce body roll and if you use springs that lower the car and reduce the center of gravity that has an effect as well.

If what you guys are saying is true, then everything people have been doing for many years in regards to suspension tuning has been wrong. In all my years of being a sporty car enthusiast suspension tuning has been mainly springs, shocks and sway bars. Some people even mess with bushings.

Sorry I just don't buy that all the tuning issues on this car can be solved entirely with shock adjustments. I own the sway bars and they help a great deal.

I also have the Eibach springs and both front and rear sway bar s , front was just put before my last track day and for me personally it made a difference and kept the car more stable, and my sway bars are set to Max

 

[ScottM]

I have front and rear eibachs, stock springs, and I just put in the ECS over the weekend. That combo works very well for me. My sways are set to comfort and I have the ECS set on sport mode (have not attempted the customization options yet) and there is definitely improvement. When I say improvement I would say; 1. When I go from a complete stop to pull pretty hard, there is no hop. This was the case on the exact same road without the ECS. 2. When I hit the dips and such I feel the car get back "inline" quicker. 3. I believe using the customization of the tool will help me to firm it up even more to my liking.

For me; with the 2-3 days (50-60 miles) of driving I'm happy with the purchase. I will always say, it all depends upon your expectations. This is a computer adjustment tool and not a physical hardware upgrade (sway bar, shocks, etc) so it's only going to do so much. If you are thinking this will solve all your suspension "issues" or what you feel is an issue...you'll want to possibly rethink that.

 

[Ruturaj]

I have front and rear eibachs, stock springs, and I just put in the ECS over the weekend. That combo works very well for me. My sways are set to comfort and I have the ECS set on sport mode (have not attempted the customization options yet) and there is definitely improvement. When I say improvement I would say; 1. When I go from a complete stop to pull pretty hard, there is no hop. This was the case on the exact same road without the ECS. 2. When I hit the dips and such I feel the car get back "inline" quicker. 3. I believe using the customization of the tool will help me to firm it up even more to my liking.

For me; with the 2-3 days (50-60 miles) of driving I'm happy with the purchase. I will always say, it all depends upon your expectations. This is a computer adjustment tool and not a physical hardware upgrade (sway bar, shocks, etc) so it's only going to do so much. If you are thinking this will solve all your suspension "issues" or what you feel is an issue...you'll want to possibly rethink that.

Seems like sway + ECS tune solves all issues. Sways for one rear end lifting in corners and ECS for hop on straight line.