RWD/AWD

[adauria]

Seems like you got this figured out, but my RWD 2022 GT1 has an E5 in the VIN, so your agent is wrong.

-Andrew

 

[MerlintheMad]

And my AWD VIN has E4 in it, so, wrong again.

 

[stoopid]

Haha mine has E3 [2021 awd]

 

[DonD]

Yea!!!! Called the dealer and my car was sitting on the car transporter and I get it tomorrow!

Have McGard locking lugs and a car cover waiting for it. It will be garaged all the time, just keeps dust and junk off of it.

Time for some waxing and babying of the new one. Don

 

[DonD]

Got the car on the 13th and I absolutely LOVE the car.

Although I am abiding by the manual's break in guidance, it's amazing how quickly and how hard it pulls with minor throttle.

QC looks very good, haven't found a thing to complain about other than the obtrusive nanny electronics, most of which I wish weren't there.

I can get rid of Auto Hold, the Circle A or whatever and ISG which I think is really lame. It simply can't be good for the engine to repeatedly shut off and restart and I think the gas it saves is relatively meaningless unless you get stuck in sick traffic like LA, Seattle, Chicago etc.

The car we drove at the dealer didn't seem to have the most potent air conditioning. This one works very well, maybe the demo car needed some refrigerant?

Wife is a cold body in the winter and the seat heater REALLY works and works fast.

So from a driver's perspective, I couldn't be happier. Don

 

[MerlintheMad]

Auto Hold is actually very useful and I always have it ON. ISG is a waste and in heavy traffic it will stop working when you want it too (parameters not met). I always turn it OFF first thing after starting. The nannies can be turned off in preferences.

 

[Grump]

AWD definitely does not help in cornering. It does help in launches and putting power down.

Check out "torque vectoring", it totally helps, and AWD stingers have this. It applies negative torque to the inside wheels on corner entry, and more torque to the outside wheels on corner exit.

Here's the engineering explained on it;

 

[vipeboy2000]

Check out "torque vectoring", it totally helps, and AWD stingers have this. It applies negative torque to the inside wheels on corner entry, and more torque to the outside wheels on corner exit.

Here's the engineering explained on it;

But the stinger doesn't have electric or active differentials in awds the gts and indigo do have a mechanical limited slip but it still can't actively push power to the outside wheel, the stingers system is still brake based where it just brakes the inner wheel allowing for power to be routed out to the outer .. it helps but it isn't like sh awd or other true torque vectoring diffs

 

[DeltaV]

So, this brings up a question. While I’m new to an AWD sport sedan, I do have a lot of experience and a decent understanding of suspension setup in RWD sports cars, including on-track. I’m struggling to determine what’s going on in the following situation and any help would be appreciated…

Highway-to-highway cyclone-style off ramp, 270 degrees, constant radius, a little bit of on-camber, 55mph limit, easy 95mph in a 2005 RX-8 with slightly bumped spring rates, 245/40ZR18 RE71Rs. In my 2022 GT2 AWD on 245/35ZR19 255/35ZR19 PS4S, at 70mph, constant throttle, steady steering I’m getting a very regular (~1 second) swing from slight understeer to nicely tucked front end to slight understeer to nicely tucked front end the whole way around. The understeer is sufficiently evident to raise my eyebrows and contemplate lifting throttle, but it cures before I need to. I should be nowhere near the tires’ limit, I’m in Sport (20/80), nannies are off, pressures are good, only yaw seems to be affected.

Is this torque vectoring trying to guide me around the curve? If so, it’s unnerving. It’s WAY too regular, like the ticking of a clock, to be surface or tire conditions.

Any thoughts?

 

[vipeboy2000]

So, this brings up a question. While I’m new to an AWD sport sedan, I do have a lot of experience and a decent understanding of suspension setup in RWD sports cars, including on-track. I’m struggling to determine what’s going on in the following situation and any help would be appreciated…

Highway-to-highway cyclone-style off ramp, 270 degrees, constant radius, a little bit of on-camber, 55mph limit, easy 95mph in a 2005 RX-8 with slightly bumped spring rates, 245/40ZR18 RE71Rs. In my 2022 GT2 AWD on 245/35ZR19 255/35ZR19 PS4S, at 70mph, constant throttle, steady steering I’m getting a very regular (~1 second) swing from slight understeer to nicely tucked front end to slight understeer to nicely tucked front end the whole way around. The understeer is sufficiently evident to raise my eyebrows and contemplate lifting throttle, but it cures before I need to. I should be nowhere near the tires’ limit, I’m in Sport (20/80), nannies are off, pressures are good, only yaw seems to be affected.

Is this torque vectoring trying to guide me around the curve? If so, it’s unnerving. It’s WAY too regular, like the ticking of a clock, to be surface or tire conditions.

Any thoughts?

i feel like what you are describing is just the suspension and tires settling into the turn , since the suspension is softer and the stinger is much heavier in general and in the nose than an rx-8, it takes it a minute to settle in after the initial understeer feeling... sways and stiffer spring rates will probably lessen the feel. I definitely know what you are talking about and am used to it as our e39 540i feels exactly the same way, initial almost plow feeling before the front end feels like it "grips" then the back end follows around nicely. I think it really is just the extra weight up front on top of just being heavier with the softer springs, our much lighter 525i exhibited similar but much less behavior on stock suspension, but now on coilovers on the 525 there is none of that initial understeer into a high speed turn, just immediate turn in and no settling in feel, just feels settled from the get go.

 

[DeltaV]

i feel like what you are describing is just the suspension and tires settling into the turn , since the suspension is softer and the stinger is much heavier in general and in the nose than an rx-8, it takes it a minute to settle in after the initial understeer feeling... sways and stiffer spring rates will probably lessen the feel. I definitely know what you are talking about and am used to it as our e39 540i feels exactly the same way, initial almost plow feeling before the front end feels like it "grips" then the back end follows around nicely. I think it really is just the extra weight up front on top of just being heavier with the softer springs, our much lighter 525i exhibited similar but much less behavior on stock suspension, but now on coilovers on the 525 there is none of that initial understeer into a high speed turn, just immediate turn in and no settling in feel, just feels settled from the get go.

Thanks for the feedback.

What still confuses me is that it’s not initial understeer followed by settling into the corner. It’s literally a good second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, all the way around the sweeper. And it’s like clockwork. Literally the same time in each phase. A second to a second and a half. Seems deliberate, mechanical, like something an algorithm would do. I’d blame ESC if I hadn’t done the long press to turn it and traction control off.

It really hampers performance. The Stinger is heavier, of course, and AWD tends to understeer vs RWD, but what explains the oscillation?

Perhaps my quest to add front camber will reap benefits here, too, but I’m still wondering about torque vectoring - based only on my inexperience with it.

Dunno.

 

[vipeboy2000]

Thanks for the feedback.

What still confuses me is that it’s not initial understeer followed by settling into the corner. It’s literally a good second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, all the way around the sweeper. And it’s like clockwork. Literally the same time in each phase. A second to a second and a half. Seems deliberate, mechanical, like something an algorithm would do. I’d blame ESC if I hadn’t done the long press to turn it and traction control off.

It really hampers performance. The Stinger is heavier, of course, and AWD tends to understeer vs RWD, but what explains the oscillation?

Perhaps my quest to add front camber will reap benefits here, too, but I’m still wondering about torque vectoring - based only on my inexperience with it.

Dunno.

that's strange, I do not get that at all with my awd, However, I do have the indigo which has the LSD and supposed "revised logic for traction/torque vectoring" over the standard AWD models so maybe that comes into play... On my car, even with stability fully on, it will step out slightly once settled in and just stay steady whether or not I stay on the throttle or let off. If I aggressively turn in or lift off quickly on purpose to induce oversteer then the stability definitely kicks on to catch the car then just lets me carry on...
and with stability fully off, it will just do a nice drift if i push the car or just rotate nicely without understeer as I throttle out of a corner aggressively.

 

[RedCal]

Thanks for the feedback.

What still confuses me is that it’s not initial understeer followed by settling into the corner. It’s literally a good second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, all the way around the sweeper. And it’s like clockwork. Literally the same time in each phase. A second to a second and a half. Seems deliberate, mechanical, like something an algorithm would do. I’d blame ESC if I hadn’t done the long press to turn it and traction control off.

It really hampers performance. The Stinger is heavier, of course, and AWD tends to understeer vs RWD, but what explains the oscillation?

Perhaps my quest to add front camber will reap benefits here, too, but I’m still wondering about torque vectoring - based only on my inexperience with it.

Dunno.

Do you have sway bars installed? I would highly recommend them...
I would disconnect the mondo just to insure it is not playing a part in your experience

 

[MerlintheMad]

Thanks for the feedback.

What still confuses me is that it’s not initial understeer followed by settling into the corner. It’s literally a good second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, then a second of understeer, then a second of reasonable rotation, all the way around the sweeper. And it’s like clockwork. Literally the same time in each phase. A second to a second and a half. Seems deliberate, mechanical, like something an algorithm would do. I’d blame ESC if I hadn’t done the long press to turn it and traction control off.

It really hampers performance. The Stinger is heavier, of course, and AWD tends to understeer vs RWD, but what explains the oscillation?

Perhaps my quest to add front camber will reap benefits here, too, but I’m still wondering about torque vectoring - based only on my inexperience with it.

Dunno.

It sounds a lot like the "step out" in the rear. That can be very constant in a sustained curve: the rear twitches out and grips in much the way you describe. As for steering, I always felt oversteer when I pushed the corners, until I got the front Eibach to match the rear bar: then the steering feedback became consistent. I won't feel anything like incipient oversteer now until I push the curve hard enough to start hearing the tires hiss: and since the front bar was put in I have not experienced actual oversteer again (haven't pushed my grip to the point of tire howl, I guess). I am AWD and I drive with traction and stability controls ON.

 

[DeltaV]

Do you have sway bars installed? I would highly recommend them...
I would disconnect the mondo just to insure it is not playing a part in your experience

Stock suspension. It did this before the Mando was installed.

 

[DeltaV]

It sounds a lot like the "step out" in the rear. That can be very constant in a sustained curve: the rear twitches out and grips in much the way you describe. As for steering, I always felt oversteer when I pushed the corners, until I got the front Eibach to match the rear bar: then the steering feedback became consistent. I won't feel anything like incipient oversteer now until I push the curve hard enough to start hearing the tires hiss: and since the front bar was put in I have not experienced actual oversteer again (haven't pushed my grip to the point of tire howl, I guess). I am AWD and I drive with traction and stability controls ON.

Definitely understeer. When the front tucks in every second second, there’s still mild understeer, but much, much less.

If it was oversteer, I wouldn’t be complaining!

I sincerely doubt I’m pushing the tires, at least I wouldn’t if there was front camber. These are supposed to be decent handlers, near the top of the Michelin range. I was getting near this speed through that curve with our Sedona! There’s something going on with a system. Almost feels as artificial as the lane keep assist does, bouncing off the lane markings on a straight bit of highway like kids’ bowling with bumpers in the gutter rather than keeping in the center.

 

[RedCal]

Stock suspension. It did this before the Mando was installed.

I would do sway bars before doing any other mods to the suspension setup

 

[DeltaV]

Agreed.

I’d like to understand what the car is doing to limit steady state grip before I make any further mods.

The Mando I can completely defeat for testing.

 

[Kimberly Lazarski]

Mine is definitely AWD and has E5 and you need a new insurance agent who isn't aggressively wrong.
--

Suspension: mine felt so mushy bone stock I was not comfortable at the limit in a brand new car. I installed an ECS10 and it made a world of difference and I now push the car into oversteer with confidence. I'm still co sidering swaybars, and chassis bushings and stiffened down the line but for now the Mando controller has made a world of difference and I just keep it in the Mando sport mode unless just cruising on a rough road.

 

[RM7]

Most OEM stuff is set up to heavily understeer, as it's deemed safer than neutral or oversteer. Oversteer "seems" like more fun, but that's when it's in a controlled environment or when you are expecting it. With my car, the weight of the car and the brakes easily overpowered the dinky 225 wide tires. If you are staggered, you are probably going to understeer significantly. Moving to a wider or square setup with the front tires may help this get closer to neutral, as well as other things mentioned, like swaybars.

Crappy OEM tires plus these pretty crappy OEM widths leads to poor turning traction, when the weight of the car is substantial. These cars *should* have at least 255 all around IMO and from there maybe 275 or 285 in the hottest version.