3.3TT KHARTUNERZ - NEW CATLESS SECONDARY DOWNPIPES Ark Performance

[Tonkabob]

You did see that Mistermac documented & proved a 24whp gain(383 to 407whp) from just secondary DPs on his ECU tuned Stinger? So glad someone finally confirmed a significant gain even with a chip/tune.

Also since Chris71 said he feels more torque/power it must be alot more than 5hp to feel a real difference. It must be closer to 15-20whp to actually feel a noticeable gain in power and expect other dynos to confirm the same from secondary DPs on modded Stingers.

I thought Mistermac's first dyno was questionable due to setup parameters, gears, operator error, kick down or something?
I felt the power increase as well but my 0-60 dragys and 1/4 mile dragy says sorry - no gains. Well on the single 1/4 mile test the corrected gain was .038 but that could be a tail wind and is within the dragy margin of error. Lol. 25hp should be almost .2 in the 1/4 mile.
I may hit the track next week with OEM MP on but the temps are forecasted to be 15 degrees warmer than my earlier runs.

 

[Chris71]

Well, if we assume 320hp then the difference may be grater, if you assume 340 who knows I was going with 320 as my baseline because the larger and lower dynos are outliers from my Google Dyno image search. Regardless I like my upgrades and like the slightly louder exhaust note.

 

[MrSmoofy]

I'll get a better scan of this over the weekend but here is the picture.

He's not happy with the HP numbers because he had to manually enter values and feels they are not accurate. He called Mustang today to get the correct numbers for my car and said he will redo the dyno I'm assuming the after so we have real numbers but this does show the 20 HP gain. I can't imagine him wanting to put the OEM pipes back on to do a dyno and then these back on but I'll leave that up to him. The true point of this was to see what the gain was from these pipes which this show.

Looking at the left top the lower line which is blue is the before and is at about 354 where the black line is the after which is at 374 which shows a 20hp gain from the pipe.

 

[Tonkabob]

The average HP and Tq are only +1 increase. Its only making more power from 2800 to 3100 RPM. Also HP and TQ graphs have to cross at 5252 RPM by definition and they are not, so that part is odd.

The bottom says 374, 366 hp, so 8 HP and just in that narrow RPM range which is only hit in 1st gear.
Plus the 374, 366 may just be the end spike. This thing is odd. Looks like HP is more like 329 max with a 1 or 2 hp increase?

 

[RUFFSTUFF]

The average HP and Tq are only +1 increase. Its only making more power from 2800 to 3100 RPM. Also HP and TQ graphs have to cross at 5252 RPM by definition and they are not, so that part is odd.

It's not just odd... It's completely wrong!

 

[MrSmoofy]

He only did the pulls in 4th

I've not done anything like this before I have to go by what he says hes the expert here not me this is a reputable performance shop mostly works on high end cars hard to think he did it wrong maybe more like not how others would do it.

I asked as many questions as I could before going to avoid this but apparently I didn't ask enough or the right ones

 

[Tonkabob]

I suspect all the axis are independent but not shown. But your peak hp is the spike (on the far right after the run), so the max is wrong and we have less than 2 hp gain.

 

[Tonkabob]

Just looked at this one more time and stock is +2 hp at the peak 5500 rpm. (Not the other way around) Its easier to see the small stock tq bump at that rpm giving stock the peak hp advantage.
Its mostly random run variation on the peak. The mid pipe car does have a tiny bit more tq in the low rpms. Certainly can't be felt and probably not measured.

 

[Dspec 1]

Really disappointed with the real world results here. I thought I had done enough research but apparently I did not. So here in Canada paying nearly $1000.00 for what is likely a loss or neglible gain. Guess it shows why ARK didn’t, and won’t, post any dynos on them.

 

[Tonkabob]

I've been sharing my no gains in 0-60 times for months but people don't want to believe it.
I thought a stock car would show some gains. But was certain a modded car would be less than 5 hp.

 

[washguy]

Really disappointed with the real world results here. I thought I had done enough research but apparently I did not. So here in Canada paying nearly $1000.00 for what is likely a loss or neglible gain. Guess it shows why ARK didn’t, and won’t, post any dynos on them.

Dspec Yes if it was real world results.sure one would be disappointed...BUT there arnt any real world results....these dyno runs are pure crap from the various runs....they come from different dynos that arnt even run properly.....you can throw out Mrmacs dynos along with the rest as they were not run right for one reason or another....Tonka is just repeating the bogus dyno runs...he should know better !

Take a look at the 1/4 mile drag results...all of the top ten have down pipes and or cats gutted...no one can run 11's with stock exhausts.....and then you can read where intakes don't help either...well that's pure BS too...... Wash

 

[MrSmoofy]

Would be nice if someone would explain the proper way to rin dynos instead of just saying all of them are crap. They will all continue to be crap until an expert comes forward to explain what should be done because the experts we are going to apparently dont know what they are doing wonder how they all stay in business.

 

[WildBill]

I don't know that your tests were run wrong, but you say that their settings might be off. You have before and after which should be pretty much good enough because they relate to one another and used the same dyno and settings. If they are offering to re-run 3 pulls with updated settings that would be awesome and then you could relate that to your previous pulls to see how they compare.

What is odd, like Tonka said is that torque and HP lines do not cross at 5252 rpms. HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252
Therefore they should always cross at that point. It is worth reaching out to them in order to get an explanation on that.

So in short is because of your admission of manually entered settings and the weird crossing point that people are saying that this wasn't run properly. Without further information the 100% validity of the test is in question.

As for MrMac's test, the car shifted gears while the run was being logged. That's no good.

 

[WildBill]

Take a look at the 1/4 mile drag results...all of the top ten have down pipes and or cats gutted...no one can run 11's with stock exhausts.....and then you can read where intakes don't help either...well that's pure BS too...... Wash

That's because everyone there was chasing HP and the Mfr provided dyno sheet said it was there. Everyone felt it was a requisite and did not check to see if they had a legitimate impact before and after installation. I had touted the downpipes to people in the past but they are apparently not the 20-30 HP power adders that they were billed to be.

 

[Tonkabob]

I don't know that your tests were run wrong, but you say that their settings might be off. You have before and after which should be pretty much good enough because they relate to one another and used the same dyno and settings. If they are offering to re-run 3 pulls with updated settings that would be awesome and then you could relate that to your previous pulls to see how they compare.

What is odd, like Tonka said is that torque and HP lines do not cross at 5252 rpms. HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252
Therefore they should always cross at that point. It is worth reaching out to them in order to get an explanation on that.

So in short is because of your admission of manually entered settings and the weird crossing point that people are saying that this wasn't run properly. Without further information the 100% validity of the test is in question.

As for MrMac's test, the car shifted gears while the run was being logged. That's no good.

Mr Smoofys dynos are probably fine, they were taken an hour apart. Would be good to hear about the tq and hp cross over points.
There isn also a solid dyno of primary car delete making 3 hp so how would the secondary delete make more than that.
My experience is all real world, dagy 0-60 and 1/4 mile so far. Will have slips to compare this week. I'll still be in the 11s

 

[Chris71]

My goal in my aftermarket parts: fmic, intakes, catless midpipes was to provide cooler air and lower back pressure so when I go jb4 tune it can take advantage.
I'm supper happy with the ark midpipes, and my perception is that I can feel a difference in overall tork. I like the sound better, I like not having 4 cats and I like where it's at for the jb4. my perception, my reality, and car more fun for it

MrSmoofy,
You got a sweet set of downpipes that give a slightly more aggressive note at a price much cheaper that if you had done a catback system plus you removed two useless cats in the process, reducing needless back pressure. Forget the Dyno, take the car out, roll down your windows and let her rip...enjoy the sound, feel the car and let your perception take over!

Mod debates will rage on, it's fine and fun even but I never let the get in the way of why I'm here
Learn a little
Share experiences
And DRIVE

 

[RUFFSTUFF]

Let's not lose our minds over 2 weak dyno runs and an opinion. Mod away!

 

[Tonkabob]

I have two more 1/4 mile dragys with my SSRs off and OEM MP back on. One was invalid slope at a different location so I won't count that (11.75). The others are all the exact same spot just different days. Top 2 are OEM MP, bottom 3 are SSR MP. You can evaluate the DAs and Temps and draw your own conclusions.
I'll have more slips this week but again the temps will be warmer.

 

[Chris71]

I've never gone to a track, what does DA mean?

 

[Tonkabob]

Density Altitude. Accounts for altitude, temp, barometric pressure, humidity, all which impact speed. My altitude is the same so biggest impact is temperature and barometrtic pressure. High temps slow, low pressure slow.
The lower the DA the faster.