Intake Comparison

[Maddog2873]

In case anyone was curious and hadn't tried it yet.... you do get great turbo noise when flooring it in reverse.....

 

[Shrikecorp]

For the insulation concerns, I'm recommending: https://smile.amazon.com/Joytale-Tu...s=gateway&sprefix=dog+sweater,aps,196&sr=8-26

Sizes for all brands.

 

[Kazz]

For the insulation concerns, I'm recommending: https://smile.amazon.com/Joytale-Turtleneck-Studded-Sweater-Apparel/dp/B0776YMMBB/ref=sr_1_26?crid=3QGGEU6GRFVQA&keywords=dog+sweater&qid=1559155360&s=gateway&sprefix=dog+sweater,aps,196&sr=8-26

Sizes for all brands.

Hm. Looks like it's for bitches only.

 

[Secondchance]

No concerns of heat since they have no heat shields? I do like the RED not fond of the blue.

You do realize that regardless of the Intakes and their level of heat shielding, the air they intake then passes through a turbine that is heated by exhaust fumes ( 7-15 times warmer than the intake air temp ) which is then fed into an air to air intercooler that cools the air before entering the inlet manifold right ? Whether the air is 80*F or 130*F pree turbo makes no difference when. It all comes out of the turbo super heated before being sent into the intercooler and cooled off. Either your front mount is efficient enough to cool the air post turbo or it isn't. The intake makes no difference.

 

[Matt77]

You do realize that regardless of the Intakes and their level of heat shielding, the air they intake then passes through a turbine that is heated by exhaust fumes ( 7-15 times warmer than the intake air temp ) which is then fed into an air to air intercooler that cools the air before entering the inlet manifold right ? Whether the air is 80*F or 130*F pree turbo makes no difference when. It all comes out of the turbo super heated before being sent into the intercooler and cooled off. Either your front mount is efficient enough to cool the air post turbo or it isn't. The intake makes no difference.

I think you need to rethink that. Yes it gets heated when compressed but the cooler the input the cooler the output. Also the intercooler can only cool a certain delta.

 

[SteveCo]

The intake makes no difference.

 

[Blitz]

You do realize that regardless of the Intakes and their level of heat shielding, the air they intake then passes through a turbine that is heated by exhaust fumes ( 7-15 times warmer than the intake air temp ) which is then fed into an air to air intercooler that cools the air before entering the inlet manifold right ? Whether the air is 80*F or 130*F pree turbo makes no difference when. It all comes out of the turbo super heated before being sent into the intercooler and cooled off. Either your front mount is efficient enough to cool the air post turbo or it isn't. The intake makes no difference.

How can people so wrong be so confident?!

 

[Shrikecorp]

Hm. Looks like it's for bitches only.

Ye of little faith

 

[Kazz]

Ye of little faith

And bitches be like...

 

[Shrikecorp]

And bitches be like...

You feel better now?

 

[Kazz]

You feel better now?

We there.

 

[Manaz]

You do realize that regardless of the Intakes and their level of heat shielding, the air they intake then passes through a turbine that is heated by exhaust fumes ( 7-15 times warmer than the intake air temp ) which is then fed into an air to air intercooler that cools the air before entering the inlet manifold right ? Whether the air is 80*F or 130*F pree turbo makes no difference when. It all comes out of the turbo super heated before being sent into the intercooler and cooled off. Either your front mount is efficient enough to cool the air post turbo or it isn't. The intake makes no difference.

Sorry, I disagree.

Compressing air increases its temperature.

Why Does Temperature Increase When Air Is Compressed Rapdily?

This has little to do with the proximity of the intake air to exhaust gases - turbos are split into two "sides" - a hot side (the impellor that spins the shaft) and the cold side (with the compressor wheel that is spun by the shaft). The shaft that joins them gets hot - but is generally water or oil cooled, and transfer of heat from the hot side of the turbo to the cold side is minimal, and has only a minimal (~20% without additional shielding - a turbo heat shield as installed stock on many cars helps here, a turbo blankey can help here, ceramic coating the hot-side can help here, and the impact of multiple processes here is additive in reducing heat transfer) impact on the efficiency of a turborcharger:

Heat transfer analysis in a turbocharger turbine: An experimental and computational evaluation

The air temp before the turbo makes a MASSIVE difference to post-intercooler temperatures (not to mention the performance and efficiency of a turbocharger):

Turbos and temperature – summer weather and turbocharger performance - AET Turbos

In summary - the colder the air that you feed a turbo-charger, the more efficient the turbo is. The more efficient the turbo, the better it builds boost pressure and the less heat it creates in doing so.

Post-turbo cooling produces a temperature differential - if your post-turbo temps are 150C and your intercooler can pull 50C, then your intake manifold temperatures will be 100C. If you can get the post-turbo temperature down to 100C, then the manifold temp will be 50C - that's a massive difference.

tl;dr: The colder the air you get into the turbo, the cooler the air will be that is used in the combustion process, and the better overall engine performance will be.

 

[Secondchance]

How can people so wrong be so confident?!

Aww look, a newb. Is the stinger your first vehicle with a turbo(s) ? If this was naturally aspirated it would be a different story but it isn't. I'd love to hear how you try to explain 20-30*F being the cause of heat soak pre turbine and pre intercooler. You either have heat soak or you don't, and if your concern is having cool dense air when you need it, then any argument that doesn't include the vehicle moving is irrelevant.

Real talk though, this has been proven time and time again for at least a decade on different turbo platforms. The intercoolers efficiency and ability to cool the air, that's heat is dictated by the turbo/exhaust temps spinning it, is what's important. The only question is if the stock intercooler is capable of cooling the air that could in theory be slightly hotter, but as it measurements on turbo vehicles pre intercooler have shown it to be marginal, while post efficient intercooler iats show it to be even less marginal. If this wasn't the case, then an intercooler bolted on wouldn't produce more power without a tune, yet on platforms where the stock cooler isn't efficient enough to cool stock air, it does. Like the 14whp an ETS top mount Adda to a ms3 without any tuning or mods.

 

[Secondchance]

Sorry, I disagree.

Compressing air increases its temperature.

Why Does Temperature Increase When Air Is Compressed Rapdily?

This has little to do with the proximity of the intake air to exhaust gases - turbos are split into two "sides" - a hot side (the impellor that spins the shaft) and the cold side (with the compressor wheel that is spun by the shaft). The shaft that joins them gets hot - but is generally water or oil cooled, and transfer of heat from the hot side of the turbo to the cold side is minimal, and has only a minimal (~20% without additional shielding - a turbo heat shield as installed stock on many cars helps here, a turbo blankey can help here, ceramic coating the hot-side can help here, and the impact of multiple processes here is additive in reducing heat transfer) impact on the efficiency of a turborcharger:

Heat transfer analysis in a turbocharger turbine: An experimental and computational evaluation

The air temp before the turbo makes a MASSIVE difference to post-intercooler temperatures (not to mention the performance and efficiency of a turbocharger):

Turbos and temperature – summer weather and turbocharger performance - AET Turbos

In summary - the colder the air that you feed a turbo-charger, the more efficient the turbo is. The more efficient the turbo, the better it builds boost pressure and the less heat it creates in doing so.

Post-turbo cooling produces a temperature differential - if your post-turbo temps are 150C and your intercooler can pull 50C, then your intake manifold temperatures will be 100C. If you can get the post-turbo temperature down to 100C, then the manifold temp will be 50C - that's a massive difference.

tl;dr: The colder the air you get into the turbo, the cooler the air will be that is used in the combustion process, and the better overall engine performance will be.

How to combat performance drop due to hotter ATMOSPHERIC AIR TEMPS

• Replace your intercooler with a more efficient model – reducing charged air temperatures and improving overall performance

So, now that you've provided proof that the intercooler is the factor for hot air, and not the intake, should we continue both proving you wrong or ? ( It's from your link cutie )

Btw, and you may want to sit down for this, the intercoolers LITERAL function is to lower the temperature,and thus, as a result of the laws of science, make the air more dense. A warmer day outside doesn't effect your performance I'd the temperature outside doesn't reduce the efficiency of your intercooler to a point that your performance suffers. The air, and the density of it pre turbo are again, as I stated, irrelevant. Your point is only valid in situations where the intercooler isn't capable, and collapses the second you understand that the efficiency of the intercooler causing the issues as secondary issues is remedied with a more efficient intercooler ( or water/meth injection which helps cool intake air via the process of evaporation ).

If this wasn't the case, why would the intercooler be after the turbo ? Why do roots style super chargers use oil and coolant in the body of the supercharger to cool it and the air inside of it and not before it ? Common sense. It's a gift

I really did enjoy the part where you explained how a turbo charger ( made out of metal, one of the most effective materials at exchanging temperatures via air and liquid lol ) has 2 Chambers. You don't say! Could those 2 Chambers also be adjacent to one another, and connected by the same solid material that is prone to heat transfer I talked about ? Oh.. it is ? And you're saying the turbine itself is connected via a metal shaft that is on both sides on that turbo.. which also transfers heat way too efficiently into the cold side ? No way... I had no idea lmao. Thank you for explaining my point further.

Oh, and as I stated, compression is one way to make air denser, as is cooling it ( science! ). That whole intercooler thing sneaking up kicking you in the shins again .. d'aww

 

[Manaz]

How to combat performance drop due to hotter ATMOSPHERIC AIR TEMPS

Prevention is better than cure. If you lower the "atmospheric temperature" by reducing heat from the engine by the use of an effective CAI, you have less performance drop to counter.

I really did enjoy the part where you explained how a turbo charger ( made out of metal, one of the most effective materials at exchanging temperatures via air and liquid lol ) has 2 Chambers. You don't say! Could those 2 Chambers also be adjacent to one another, and connected by the same solid material that is prone to heat transfer I talked about ? Oh.. it is ? And you're saying the turbine itself is connected via a metal shaft that is on both sides on that turbo.. which also transfers heat way too efficiently into the cold side ? No way... I had no idea lmao. Thank you for explaining my point further.

The transfer of heat from the hot side of the turbo to the cold side is pretty insignificant (sub 20%, as already noted). The time that the intake air gets to spend in contact with the compressor blades is so tiny as to impart only a small part of the overall temperature intake. Think of the airflow required to produce 370hp, and given the small size of a turbo compressor, exactly how long it gets to spend in contact with the compressor blades and thus absorb heat from them - not very long, at all. The vast majority of temperature increase for intake in a turbo is the effects of compression on the air itself.

Nobody is denying that an inter-cooler helps. Not at all - a better inter-cooler helps, end of story - as I quoted in another thread on a similar topic, there's evidence quoted recently where an inter-cooler meant the difference between 146hp and 176hp on an otherwise stock vehicle (the manufacturer added an inter-cooler to the revision after the 146hp model).

But you stated that having cooler air into the turbo doesn't help at all. I quote:

The intake makes no difference.

And that's wrong. Airbox intake temperature isn't the only thing to make a difference, but it very much does make some difference. Less heat in equals less heat out. End of story. Lower air intake temperatures and intercooling are complimentary, not exclusionary.

From this page, as an example (it's one of many, it just has a good explanation as to the issue here):

As air temperature increases the density of the air, and the amount of oxygen it holds, decreases. This means that the turbocharger has to work harder, spin faster and compress more air to produce the same amount of boost it would at lower temperatures.

You get more efficiency (and thus less heat produced by the turbo) when air intake temperatures before the turbo are cooler (before the turbo - not after it, where the intercooler is). This results in overall lower intake temperatures into the combustion chamber (the inter-cooler can only remove so much heat - if you start with less into the inter-cooler, then you end up with less heat out of it and thus into the combustion chamber).

Aww look, a newb. Is the stinger your first vehicle with a turbo(s) ?

Don't be like that. Argue the point, not the man.

 

[Shrikecorp]

Don't be like that. Argue the point, not the man.

Seriously, gents.

 

[Gtecko]

the last two pages were a good read with my morning coffee
I, too, after reading a lot , am going with the DIY one. I was going to pull the trigger on the K&N Typhoon but after reading the thread on the DYI and SKSSTNGER posting the link to acquire the elements in Canada, this was a no brainer.
PPl must have been lurking the amazon link as the prices have gone up now...

 

[SKStinger]

Seriously, gents.

+1. I preferred the other direction this thread was going. Can we get back on topic? Dog blankets anyone?

 

[Shrikecorp]

+1. I preferred the other direction this thread was going. Can we get back on topic? Dog blankets anyone?

Point taken. Not saying I don't appreciate discussion/disagreement on a topic. But if I want to see personal attacks between strangers I'll head over to Twitter.

 

[MrSmoofy]

Think I've decided to go the Ingen route.