FAQ: Vibration under braking: warped rotors? NO!

[Helo58]

From what I gather, the people having the problem with deposits feel like they are driving the car as intended and in a similar manner that they have driven previous cars (myself included). In my case, the problem seems to occur when the rotors get wet and the car sits for a couple of days afterwards. I have also been less than impressed with the brakes with aggressive driving. I haven't seen a definitive list of what to avoid, but if it includes daily driver type duties (stop and go traffic) and/or no aggressive braking, then I would suggest swapping the pads. Personally, I am considering new aftermarket slotted rotors and semi-metallic brake pads. It is higher maintenance but will likely suit my driving style.

 

[NS_Stinger]

Yup! Although, there's no need to replace the pads either if you simply avoid the conditions that cause the deposits to forum.

I sit in traffic all day and rarely even break the speed limit because I'm hauling around 2 kids all the time and I got it, brembos arent up to the task for idling and grocery runs I guess.

 

[Manaz]

Okay great, how many confirmed cases of that with the Stinger? Almost everyone on the forum has said that the resurfacing of their factory rotors fixed the problem only for it to return later on. So resurfacing the rotors and adding aftermarket pads with a better compound right away is likely the long term solution.

It's not a 100% guaranteed solution, but it's certainly a better bet than replacing the rotors and keeping the stock pads and wondering why the problem occurs over and over again as the dealerships seem to be doing (on Kia's advice too it seems).

 

[Manaz]

I sit in traffic all day and rarely even break the speed limit because I'm hauling around 2 kids all the time and I got it, brembos arent up to the task for idling and grocery runs I guess.

I suspect the pads are just proving to be not appropriate on a ~1700kg car. You don't have to be going very fast to create a lot of heat when a car weighs this much.

A great reddit thread (I don't say that often) on braking distance, heat, weight, etc.

Does weight of a vehicle affect braking distance and braking time, if friction between road surface and tires is the same and brakes are powerful enough to lock the wheels? : askscience

There's a responder in there with a Masters in Vehicle Dynamics Simulation with several published papers on the topic. He also refers to Carroll Smith (who we've responded to before as someone who knows what the hell he's on about and says that rotors do not warp)...

 

[MerlintheMad]

I don't think anybody knows exactly what those conditions are. I don't drive hard and I got them.

This is subjective. What one views as "driving hard" another thinks is doodle driving. We have race car drivers here. And drag racers. And street racers. And those who fancy themselves as any and all of the above. And we have people who are in BAD habits of riding their brakes and think that that is okay. Tailgaters think nothing of slamming on their brakes. And if they don't produce a noise from their tires they think that they are not "driving hard". Then there's my dad: the king of car economies. He could get 40K plus miles out of a set of pads: I am not exaggerating. And having learned well, I have done likewise (though not consistently like Dad). At 12K plus miles, my Stinger's brakes were pronounced "like new". And there you go ...

A great reddit thread (I don't say that often) on braking distance, heat, weight, etc.

Going downhill in a heavily loaded car can catch you off guard. Yesterday, at the bottom of a freeway exit, somewhat downhill, I left off braking a bit too late for "existing conditions" and the car was still rolling when I got to the stop sign. Heh! Rather than engage the ABS (I hate doing that), I swung around the corner and into the gas station. Whirling lights followed me to the pump. And the cop admonished me in no uncertain terms that you never get out of your car when you are pulled over: I "argued" that I didn't see him till I got to the turn in to the pump, ergo it was obvious why I was getting out. Despite my needing to pee and being annoyed as hell, he only gave me a warning!? Yes!? Great guy; works in western NE, has a son who just bought an Optima: asked about my car, which he had seen on that occasion, and keeps seeing as he checks out the Telluride.

(I've now had four warnings since getting the Stinger. That's more warnings than in my whole life. The combo of my age, this car and something inscrutable, has made me likeable to cops, it seems. Thank heaven for that! Anyway, OT now. )​

 

[Christopher A Herman]

I'll be in the most conservative driver test case. It's not that I don't drive in a spirited way time to time, I just avoid situations requiring excessive braking: tailgating, racing to stop lights/signs, not anticipating traffic ahead necessitating late braking. Luckily, I don't have to endure heavy stop and go traffic on a regular basis--that's probably the biggest contributor to my brake longevity. I had 175k on my '03 WRX when I had the dealer replace the pads and they still weren't worn out (no squealing wear indicator). My '04 GMC 2500HD has 107k and the brakes are still good and I use it almost exclusively to carry my 2000 lb. slide in camper. I have 5500 miles on my '19 GT1 AWD and haven't noticed any shudder/pulsing, but I will keep a close eye on it. If I start getting the brake pulsing, the factory pads are definitely complete garbage and not adequate in any way for this car.

 

[drn127]

The tips on this thread are great, but at the same time we probably shouldn't have to be performing "band-aids" to have our ~$50k cars operate properly while killing our own brake life in the process. That's a temporary fix but we need to get to the root of the problem to correct this as a community. I don't think we have gotten anywhere with that yet, so I have another suggestion.

I've had this problem for a while now and am at 7k miles and I am getting nowhere with the "VIP" line and dealership. And I live in NYC and don't have an opportunity to get to those speeds to bed brakes without traffic around me and making it unsafe.

So I am going to try putting a complaint into the NHTSA. Currently only 1 Stinger owner has put in a brake complaint in on that site. I'll be happy to be the 2nd as I think Kia is not responsive in the matter.

For all US drivers, the more data the NHTSA gets to support the issue the better chance they can put pressure on the manufacturer for a recall. With only 1 data point right now, they can't help us unless all of us submit. There's plenty of us on this forum that can help create a sizable amount of complaints for them to investigate a systemic issue.

Every avenue of attack is necessary at this point as this has dragged on for too long. It's worth a try and takes 5 minutes to submit. Just go to their site and click report a problem. I'm tired of dreading driving a new car and all I get is the run around from the VIP line and the dealership.

 

[itguy61]

The tips on this thread are great, but at the same time we probably shouldn't have to be performing "band-aids" to have our ~$50k cars operate properly while killing our own brake life in the process. That's a temporary fix but we need to get to the root of the problem to correct this as a community. I don't think we have gotten anywhere with that yet, so I have another suggestion.

I've had this problem for a while now and am at 7k miles and I am getting nowhere with the "VIP" line and dealership. And I live in NYC and don't have an opportunity to get to those speeds to bed brakes without traffic around me and making it unsafe.

So I am going to try putting a complaint into the NHTSA. Currently only 1 Stinger owner has put in a brake complaint in on that site. I'll be happy to be the 2nd as I think Kia is not responsive in the matter.

For all US drivers, the more data the NHTSA gets to support the issue the better chance they can put pressure on the manufacturer for a recall. With only 1 data point right now, they can't help us unless all of us submit. There's plenty of us on this forum that can help create a sizable amount of complaints for them to investigate a systemic issue.

Every avenue of attack is necessary at this point as this has dragged on for too long. It's worth a try and takes 5 minutes to submit. Just go to their site and click report a problem. I'm tired of dreading driving a new car and all I get is the run around from the VIP line and the dealership.

We may have gotten near fixing the problem by putting out extra money for aftermarket parts. We should not have to do this. Kia should fix this and on that front you are right, we haven not put enough pressure on them yet. You may have a good idea.

 

[SteveCo]

So I am going to try putting a complaint into the NHTSA.

That sounds like calling 911 to complain your pizza arrived cold. Brake judder due to rotor deposits may be an annoyance, but I don't think it qualifies as a safety concern.

 

[drn127]

That sounds like calling 911 to complain your pizza arrived cold. Brake judder due to rotor deposits may be an annoyance, but I don't think it qualifies as a safety concern.

I did have that reservation at first, and I'm no engineer, but I was thinking wouldn't the pad deposits create an uneven surface where there is less friction and therefore less braking power and therefore is a safety issue though?

If you are braking hard enough to burn it off then maybe it doesn't matter, but when it's still present I would think having that crap on your rotors would have to at least some impact to stopping power at least a little bit?

As a "naive" consumer, I am just reporting it as a perceived issue to safety to braking regardless of the above though. Because it sure seems it impacts stopping power even if only a perception, which perception is still a safety issue (people over-braking as a result of loss of confidence in their brakes, even if stopping power wasn't impacted due to this defect, causing a rear end collision is still a safety issue due to the faulty design).

Again as a naive consumer, I've had 3 new Mustangs of various models, 1 new BMW E46 330ci, and 1 new VW GTi all in the same realm of relative performance with no issues like this in 20 years of driving. Even my used cars I bought under warranty or not have not even remotely had this issue.

Am I scared when I brake with the Stinger at highway speeds? Yes! I'm petrified. That's a safety issue whether scientific or perceived as it is not normal for a "performance" car and especially at this dollar value. Even rental compact cars that have been beaten to death don't perform like this. I bought a $50k+ car and I'd rather have the rental I just had a on a work trip to feel safe braking on the highway. That's a safety issue.

This is not a my sunroof squeaks issue (which I have too). Anything braking is a perceived safety issue to the general consumer which should be reported if the manufacturer clearly doesn't care, which it doesn't.

 

[Juanma82]

So for all that I have read here, all brake or vibration problems have occurred in the USA and not in Europe, since the pads have a different compound, is that true?

 

[Guest-607505]

This is definitely a safety issue and should be reported to the NHTSA especially since most Stinger owners are experiencing it. If anything there should be a Service Bulletin published by the manufacturer instructing the dealers how to correct it free of charge.

I am just glad I did not purchase a Stinger GT. The one I test drove also had vibrations under braking at highway speeds (did not feel like it braked very well or a short distance anyway, not for a $46K car). It also had vibrations in the steering and throughout without braking, and a couple of different squeaks and rattles, that appeared to come from the hatch. For a new car and experiencing all that during a test drive was unacceptable to me, plus the car felt floaty at highway speeds, to me anyway. There was nothing about the car that screamed "sporty" to me, other than the acceleration.

 

[MerlintheMad]

… most Stinger owners are experiencing it.

No, "most" are not. If that were true, we'd see a ton of "me too" posters on this forum. A small percentage (but still too big; one in twenty vehicles?) is all that are experiencing brake issues. It's either that, or Stinger drivers are just too dense to know that their "high performance Brembo brakes" are behaving like crap.

 

[Ozstung]

Next to no break issues down here. It's got to be the pads the North American market was supplied with?

 

[itguy61]

ridiculous, why they give us Shite pads? My service advisor told me they are seeing this pretty regularly now that they have sold more Stingers. And I still don't get the doubters. Glad you have not experienced it but it does not mean it is not an issue. I don't drive hard and I got it.

 

[max2382]

If some who have had them resurfaced have it return significantly faster than it took too see it the first time then that might be a sign of this.

So regarding this...I had vibration at about 11k miles. When I brought the car in for the 12k service, they resurfaced the rotors free of charge (they said only for that time). From that point the brakes were ok (maybe a bit more spongy as now you have to push the pedal deeper). Now, at 22k the same problem came back. I can feel it mainly when braking from above 55mph (as before) or when braking going downhill. I will have to bring the car back in for the 24k service, and I don't know what to say and do. They will say again my rotors are warped (even if they're not), and they probably will suggest to resurface them again, or to change disks and pads (for a lot of money). I don't drive hard, just commute, and in traffic mostly. It is obviously something that happens at regular intervals, and i dont know hownto approach this situation. I don't want to resurface/change the disks every 11k miles. It makes no sense. What's your suggestion? is there a KIA number I can call and complain about and potentially get them replaced for free?

 

[MisterMac]

So regarding this...I had vibration at about 11k miles. When I brought the car in for the 12k service, they resurfaced the rotors free of charge (they said only for that time). From that point the brakes were ok (maybe a bit more spongy as now you have to push the pedal deeper). Now, at 22k the same problem came back. I can feel it mainly when braking from above 55mph (as before) or when braking going downhill. I will have to bring the car back in for the 24k service, and I don't know what to say and do. They will say again my rotors are warped (even if they're not), and they probably will suggest to resurface them again, or to change disks and pads (for a lot of money). I don't drive hard, just commute, and in traffic mostly. It is obviously something that happens at regular intervals, and i dont know hownto approach this situation. I don't want to resurface/change the disks every 11k miles. It makes no sense. What's your suggestion? is there a KIA number I can call and complain about and potentially get them replaced for free?

Perform the bedding process on your breaks. That'll remove the deposits. You'll be fine again until the deposits build again. Then rebed. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Or, replace your pads yourself for about $70.00 and never feel the vibration again.

 

[max2382]

Perform the bedding process on your breaks. That'll remove the deposits. You'll be fine again until the deposits build again. Then rebed. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Or, replace your pads yourself for about $70.00 and never feel the vibration again.

Thank you for the reply, but now I am confused. Are the rotors warped or not? If replacing the pad solve the issue, then to me looks like the rotors are not warped. But then it wont explain why this happens in regular interval. As said to me it happened twice already (after 11k, and then after 22k miles). Pads have never been replaced (according to the kia guy they were in perfect state after the 12k service). Only the rotors have been resurfaced at 12k miles. If the pads were the problem, shouldn't this have happened at any time instead every 11-12k miles?

 

[MisterMac]

Thank you for the reply, but now I am confused. Are the rotors warped or not? If replacing the pad solve the issue, then to me looks like the rotors are not warped. But then it wont explain why this happens in regular interval. As said to me it happened twice already (after 11k, and then after 22k miles). Pads have never been replaced (according to the kia guy they were in perfect state after the 12k service). Only the rotors have been resurfaced at 12k miles. If the pads were the problem, shouldn't this have happened at any time instead every 11-12k miles?

No, the rotors are not warped. The pads Kia used "melt" and leave material deposit build-up on the rotor surface. The bedding procedure removes those deposits.

A higher quality ceramic pad will not leave the material deposits. I am using Centric Posi-Quiet ceramic pads and flawless performance.

 

[max2382]

No, the rotors are not warped. The pads Kia used "melt" and leave material deposit build-up on the rotor surface. The bedding procedure removes those deposits.

A higher quality ceramic pad will not leave the material deposits. I am using Centric Posi-Quiet ceramic pads and flawless performance.

Thank you. I had a quick look at a website that sells aftermarket parts for the Kia and Hyundai. there are several pads and brake brands, and various price range. I have no idea what I need as I never had to change pads or rotor in any car I owned. What should I get? Would be possible to get informations from some experienced member of this forum please?