Eibach Sways & Springs

[PxbVic]

5 hours holy shit haha

5 Hours for all 4 corners, that's pretty fast, this would ring alarm bells with me, I'd say to do a good job properly (and bare in mind I have not seen the Stinger suspension in the raw yet) I would suggest a good suspension mechanic would need 1.5 hours per strut and then 30 to 40 minutes to do the alignment properly. So about 7 hours is more realistic. The difference is a quick mechanic will pull the car apart with an impact gun, this is OK, but to save time he would then assemble the car with an impact gun and this is the worst thing you can do, the chance of under tightened, over tightened, damaged bolts is just too great.

 

[PxbVic]

Thanks Paul, yep the suspension guy showed me those bolts and said the guy who did your springs didn't adjust them as the factory yellow paint markers still line up from there original factory setting.

At this stage im still waiting a call for an aligner to ring me with his group price buy. I assume he's waiting for his bosses approval?

Its going to very useful having you in "House" we might lean on you as our technical guru

Happy to advise where I can

 

[PxbVic]

I didn’t require a wheel alignment for the Sway Bar change over, steering is still perfect & tyre wear is good.

I would expect a wheel alignment would be required with the lowering springs as this alters the camber which explains your excessive tyre wear & I would expect that should have been done as a matter of course by the suspension place you had install them.

Yes the sway bars don't affect the steering geometry so no wheel alignment required.
Lowering the suspension by only changing the springs for effectively shorter springs will increase negative camber instantly requiring a wheel alignment.

 

[PxbVic]

Can someone avoid how it voids warranty? I really am looking forward to 7 years warranty.

Generally sway bars will not void a warranty because they don't affect the steering and suspension geometry, what they do is reduce body roll in corners, and depending on what you're looking to achieve with the suspension, stiffening a rear sway bar in general clears the default tendency of most cars to under-steer (push) in hard cornering. Stiffening both sway bars can remove nervousness from general suspension performance and give the car a more planted feel particularly on hard acceleration out of corners. You want the car to be predictable when you accelerate, the Stinger at the moment is not it feels nervous. Once run in, I'll be doing some testing with the traction control off, to better understand the characteristics of the car.

Lowered springs you are in a real grey area, if you do prematurely wear out a control arm suspension bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, cause a leak from the steering rack, prematurely wear out a CV joint or even cause a oil leak from the diff, all these problems could be attributed to lowered suspension and the impact on suspension geometry, it's not a fight I'd like to get in with the dealer.

 

[AV8R]

Generally sway bars will not void a warranty because they don't affect the steering and suspension geometry, what they do is reduce body roll in corners, and depending on what you're looking to achieve with the suspension, stiffening a rear roll bar in general clears the default tendency of most cars to under-steer (push) in hard cornering. Stiffening both sway bars can remove nervousness from general suspension performance and give the car a more planted feel particularly on hard acceleration out of corners. You want the car to be predictable when you accelerate, the Stinger at the moment is not it feels nervous. Once run in, I'll be doing some testing with the traction control off, to better understand the characteristics of the car.

Lowered springs you are in a real grey area, if you do prematurely wear out a control arm suspension bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, cause a leak from the steering rack, prematurely wear out a CV joint or even cause a oil leak from the diff, all these problems could be attributed to lowered suspension and the impact on suspension geometry, it's not a fight I'd like to get in with the dealer.

Finally some one who knows something that can back our experiences after fitment. Thankyou!

 

[PxbVic]

Finally some one who knows something that can back our experiences after fitment. Thankyou!

Your Welcome

 

[PxbVic]

Sorry I think I read it wrong hahaView attachment 21048

NSW Suspension height adjustment.
I'm not in NSW but I'll have a go at interpretation and the math
hmm = Minimum legal allowable height in centre of wheelbase (what we are trying to find out)
xm = Wheelbase of the car, KIA state this as 2905mm or 2.905m in the user manual.

150mm = For reference, is the standard ground clearance at the centre of the wheelbase x/2 as measured by me on my car, note this is not the sill height there are under trays lower than the sill height so I measured these after all you don't want to get caught by a technicality, and I took into account the statement "Any point the vehicle must pass over the apex of the intersecting planes as the vehicle traverses it" So the actual measurement was taken from the rear under tray ground clearance. about 250mm rearward from x/2. Nearest lowest point to x/2.

Therefore the minimum legal height at x/2 is:
hmm >= 2.905X33.3
hmm >= 96.8mm
So for the sake of simplicity the static ground clearance of the car after lowering cannot be less than 97mm or in reality, 100mm at the centre of the wheelbase.

So go out and measure under your car and see if it's NSW legal.

 

[Hemz]

NSW Suspension height adjustment.
I'm not in NSW but I'll have a go at interpretation and the math
hmm = Minimum legal allowable height in centre of wheelbase (what we are trying to find out)
xm = Wheelbase of the car, KIA state this as 2905mm or 2.905m in the user manual.

150mm = For reference, is the standard ground clearance at the centre of the wheelbase x/2 as measured by me on my car, note this is not the sill height there are under trays lower than the sill height so I measured these after all you don't want to get caught by a technicality, and I took into account the statement "Any point the vehicle must pass over the apex of the intersecting planes as the vehicle traverses it" So the actual measurement was taken from the rear under tray ground clearance. about 250mm rearward from x/2. Nearest lowest point to x/2.

Therefore the minimum legal height at x/2 is:
hmm >= 2.905X33.3
hmm >= 96.8mm
So for the sake of simplicity the static ground clearance of the car after lowering cannot be less than 97mm or in reality, 100mm at the centre of the wheelbase.

So go out and measure under your car and see if it's NSW legal.

Hmm wonder what your height is with the springs ozstung

 

[Coast GT]

Hmm wonder what your height is with the springs ozstung

Lower than that

 

[app_master]

97mm is bloody low. Like Ferrari low!

 

[Stinger GT SS]

NSW Suspension height adjustment.
I'm not in NSW but I'll have a go at interpretation and the math
hmm = Minimum legal allowable height in centre of wheelbase (what we are trying to find out)
xm = Wheelbase of the car, KIA state this as 2905mm or 2.905m in the user manual.

150mm = For reference, is the standard ground clearance at the centre of the wheelbase x/2 as measured by me on my car, note this is not the sill height there are under trays lower than the sill height so I measured these after all you don't want to get caught by a technicality, and I took into account the statement "Any point the vehicle must pass over the apex of the intersecting planes as the vehicle traverses it" So the actual measurement was taken from the rear under tray ground clearance. about 250mm rearward from x/2. Nearest lowest point to x/2.

Therefore the minimum legal height at x/2 is:
hmm >= 2.905X33.3
hmm >= 96.8mm
So for the sake of simplicity the static ground clearance of the car after lowering cannot be less than 97mm or in reality, 100mm at the centre of the wheelbase.

So go out and measure under your car and see if it's NSW legal.

Just measured mine with OE Springs & the static sill height is 160mm.

 

[PxbVic]

Just measured mine with OE Springs & the static sill height is 160mm.

Yeah the sill height is ~165mm but under the car is a lower point, the rear under tray. The statement from the NSW law is largely ambiguous, so I'd taken into account the statement about passing over the apex of intersecting planes, therefore that point was 150mm. Fact remains at 100mm you going to bottom out at speed. just the reality of the matter, at least you would on Melbourne roads.

 

[Stinger GT SS]

Yeah the sill height is ~165mm but under the car is a lower point, the rear under tray. The statement from the NSW law is largely ambiguous, so I'd taken into account the statement about passing over the apex of intersecting planes, therefore that point was 150mm. Fact remains at 100mm you going to bottom out at speed. just the reality of the matter, at least you would on Melbourne roads.

I agree & I think the NSW min. is 100mm, I believe Highway Patrol carry a set device to check if they feel a vehicle height may not comply.

 

[PxbVic]

I agree & I think the NSW min. is 100mm, I believe Highway Patrol carry a set device to check if they feel a vehicle height may not comply.

At least the NSW police measure in Melbourne they just canary (Defect Notice) your car, you're off the road, $120 for road worthy and because it will go for a pit inspection they will be to the letter of the law, $120 for VicRoads inspection that can take weeks to get a booking in for, and then Driving a vehicle with a minor defect $242.00 or major defect $403.00 whatever fine the cop decide to give you, they can just warn you but lets be serious they wont because dumped cars playing fat beats is bad M-Kay.

So you're back on the road, many hundreds ($484.00 to $643.00) of dollars and many weeks later, and then the next time the same cop see you, he will do it all again

Take it from me, I speak from experience, if you get a cop singling you out it can cost thousands, and it's bloody hard to fight in court.

 

[Hemz]

At least the NSW police measure in Melbourne they just canary (Defect Notice) your car, you're off the road, $120 for road worthy and because it will go for a pit inspection they will be to the letter of the law, $120 for VicRoads inspection that can take weeks to get a booking in for, and then Driving a vehicle with a minor defect $242.00 or major defect $403.00 whatever fine the cop decide to give you, they can just warn you but lets be serious they wont because dumped cars playing fat beats is bad M-Kay.

So you're back on the road, many hundreds ($484.00 to $643.00) of dollars and many weeks later, and then the next time the same cop see you, he will do it all again

Take it from me, I speak from experience, if you get a cop singling you out it can cost thousands, and it's bloody hard to fight in court.

Better than a $1500 exhaust fine for being 110db instead of 89. Gg

 

[Ozstung]

NSW Suspension height adjustment.
I'm not in NSW but I'll have a go at interpretation and the math
hmm = Minimum legal allowable height in centre of wheelbase (what we are trying to find out)
xm = Wheelbase of the car, KIA state this as 2905mm or 2.905m in the user manual.

150mm = For reference, is the standard ground clearance at the centre of the wheelbase x/2 as measured by me on my car, note this is not the sill height there are under trays lower than the sill height so I measured these after all you don't want to get caught by a technicality, and I took into account the statement "Any point the vehicle must pass over the apex of the intersecting planes as the vehicle traverses it" So the actual measurement was taken from the rear under tray ground clearance. about 250mm rearward from x/2. Nearest lowest point to x/2.

Therefore the minimum legal height at x/2 is:
hmm >= 2.905X33.3
hmm >= 96.8mm
So for the sake of simplicity the static ground clearance of the car after lowering cannot be less than 97mm or in reality, 100mm at the centre of the wheelbase.

So go out and measure under your car and see if it's NSW legal.

Great info appreciate but i must pull you up, its Maths not Math. . We had a big debate a few months ago with our North western friends about it.

 

[PxbVic]

Great info appreciate but i must pull you up, its Maths not Math. . We had a big debate a few months ago with our North western friends about it.

One of my engineering degrees was completed at MIT in good old USofA, where it's actually math and not maths, may I suggest your time spent in a mass debate has affected you're ability to think clearly.

But hey, I can go both ways with many citizenships

 

[Ozstung]

Wrong. Maths nil debate your'e in the Aus section now. Been there done that.

Moving on i went and got the camber aligned correctly or at least an improvement, well happy with that.

After getting the quotes on the installation of the Eibach sway bars there was one clear cut winner. Great Western Kia Ki gswood i was given a contact by @Stinger GT SS (thanks).

They have quoted us $145 per hour x 2 hours of work. Even if takes them 3-4 hours. I think thats generous, as it is a modification we will have to sign a waiver of responsibility free Kia of any blame with the mod. However all workmanship will be covered.

The other quote i received in writing was 5 hours at a rate if we all turn up of $95.
They also gave me a rate on the spring installation for Hemzy but that involved at least 4 of us getting the sways done. I think Hemzy's been talked out of the springs so i don't need to post that.

The beauty about the Kia Kingswood deal is there not counting heads all we have to do is turn up and name drop Brendan( whom organised it and i spoke to, or Greg his Boss).

They told me @Stinger GT SS did get a cheaper hourly rate but theyve had a price rise since then.

Just a heads up this deal is through The Kia dealership at Kingswood i don't believe its transferable to other dealerships.

For those following my car on the meets and seen the camber here is a before and after spec sheet from todays alignment. The shop believes the guy who did the springs probably didn't do an alignment. He has since left his practise at Arndell park so i found out. The new owner wanted instructions on how to fit them! Long story short put a line through them.

 

[OliverNuther]

I don’t have a dog in this fight so my interest is academic only but did they give you an idea what form the waiver will take? Seems to me that this is more like upgrading an existing part of the car; not really modifying it’s performance. I’d be reluctant to waive too much. Oh and I’ve been talked out of the springs also so Shannon, just sways for me thanks.

 

[Ozstung]

Spot on Ollie poor choice of words on my behalf it is an upgrade and therefore they are fitting a "non genuine" part to the car. They cannot warrant the upgrade just the workman ship. They indicated they will not be liable if the part fails or weakens other components on the vehicle or something to that effect. Thats what we have to sign off on.