Quality problems

[MerlintheMad]

I do know that the manual mentions often that a "noise" may occur when this or that component on the car is used: including brakes feeling not entirely smooth and making a scratching noise: "this is normal operation" is the typical caveat. As long as your LSD is working without a hitch and is not screaming at you, "this is normal operation" can be resorted to. I guess the car's noise production is not going to satisfy. Does it interfere with your enjoyment of the Harman Kardon surround sound?

 

[mldavis2]

I would suggest taking it to a different dealer. Don't tell them what the first dealer said, just go in for an evaluation. If the second opinion is the same, it is probably normal, or something other than the differential. It's covered under the 10 year / 100,000 power train anyway if it goes bad.

 

[Tazztattoo]

Hi from Australia.
Had my GT for about 6mths now and to be honest it's not what I expected. I love driving the Stinger - it goes great but build quality has been a major let down. I've come from prev owning euros and Lexus. I have trim pieces fall off/come loose, rattles from drivers door, trunk and now centre console. Been back to dealer 3 times who fix things but they keep coming back. Now to make things worse the diff has developed a troubling whine noise. Dealer says "it's normal"! It wasn't there for the first 9000km. Hopefully things improve.

Hi James,
Also sorry to hear of your quality problems and myself have had the car for close to 9 months now regularly across this forum pretty much since it started and can say your situation is very much out of the ordinary. My only problem was a mild grinding noise from their rear diff when the car was cold and in reverse and turning at the same time, so by that I mean leaving home in the morning and reversing out of the driveway. In fact I would say that unless I had heard of the problem on this forum from other owners I would not have even thought to listen out for the noise and considered what my car was doing to be normal. I brought it to the attention of the dealer, they inspected the car, acknowledged a fault, ordered a new diff from the factory and replaced it. No debate, no stuffing around, they just provided the service that a customer buying their halo product deserves to receive. The car now reverses out of the driveway and the diff feels silky smooth and quiet now in all driving situations but again i stress that it wasn't what I would consider an obvious fault prior to it being replaced.
Also, although my trunk never had a rattle the dealer installed a "tailgate guide bumber washer" as part of the factory instructed recall work they have been advised to do when the cars come in for service.
Good luck. I hope they can sort everything out for you and your experience with the car becomes like most of us here.........bloody fantastic!

 

[James Hamilton]

Hi James,
Also sorry to hear of your quality problems and myself have had the car for close to 9 months now regularly across this forum pretty much since it started and can say your situation is very much out of the ordinary. My only problem was a mild grinding noise from their rear diff when the car was cold and in reverse and turning at the same time, so by that I mean leaving home in the morning and reversing out of the driveway. In fact I would say that unless I had heard of the problem on this forum from other owners I would not have even thought to listen out for the noise and considered what my car was doing to be normal. I brought it to the attention of the dealer, they inspected the car, acknowledged a fault, ordered a new diff from the factory and replaced it. No debate, no stuffing around, they just provided the service that a customer buying their halo product deserves to receive. The car now reverses out of the driveway and the diff feels silky smooth and quiet now in all driving situations but again i stress that it wasn't what I would consider an obvious fault prior to it being replaced.
Also, although my trunk never had a rattle the dealer installed a "tailgate guide bumber washer" as part of the factory instructed recall work they have been advised to do when the cars come in for service.
Good luck. I hope they can sort everything out for you and your experience with the car becomes like most of us here.........bloody fantastic!

I wish you were correct in saying that it is very much out of the ordinary but that’s clearly not the case as CarAdvice has the exact same issues with their own Stinger....

 

[mldavis2]

The problem is that out of thousands, we tend to hear about all the problems. My GT2 at 10,000 miles is perfect.

 

[Tazztattoo]

The problem is that out of thousands, we tend to hear about all the problems. My GT2 at 10,000 miles is perfect.

AGREED. Owners reading these forums need to keep things in perspective. There would be approximately 1000 Stingers delivered now in Australia and because we are only reading comments from what would be a very small percentage of these 1000 owners it is very easy to magnify in our minds the true scale of problems that are out there.

For a first generation vehicle that has been designed and developed from a blank canvas the quality issues that are occurring with the Stinger would be as low as ANY other brand on the market including the likes of the premium German players and industry leaders in quality....Lexus ( just read any JD Power initial quality survey in the last 10 years ). Cars have somewhere in the order of 30 to 40 thousand parts and on any car , first generation ones especially, a handful of these parts at least will always fail.

What is equally or even more important than product quality is how the manufacturers support their customers when something does go wrong. Remember the dealer is an independent operator selling cars under license from the manufacturer so they actually make money from quality issues in the product as Kia has to pay them to carry out any rectification work and the cost ultimately goes back to the factory. The dealer has no agenda to resist repairing your car and any resistance buyers may experience is coming indirectly from the manufacturer. Just look at "dieselgate" and how long it took VW to get their head out of the sand leaving their dealer network to cop the wrath and frustration of so many customers.
If you are ever not happy with how your dealer is handling a product quality issues don't "shoot the messenger". Instead, bypass them and contact the manufacturer directly so they cant hide behind the dealer and it's much harder for a manufacturer to say NO directly to a customer.

 

[mldavis2]

I agree up to a point, @Tazztattoo. I was a service manager back in the '80's for GM-BMW-Subaru dealership. We used two different manuals to quote and apply labor on repairs. The factory labor rates were what we were restricted to for warranty work because the factory is paying the bill. We often used Motor or Chilton for customer labor quotations in which times were about 20% longer. The reason is that factory repair rates were set by the factory using new, clean cars and factory technicians under essentially perfect conditions with no allowance for diagnosis in many cases, no road testing, etc. So we did not really make much money on warranty repairs except for a small parts profit, and the mechanics often lost time under that restriction.

Customer repairs were more profitable because a really good mechanic, if he didn't encounter a problem like a rusted bolt, or other incidental damage, could usually meet or beat the Chilton/Motor time IF the repair didn't require a diagnostic drive and subsequent check drive to verify the success of the repair. Virtually all independent shops used Chilton/Motor labor times. I don't know how that is today.

So the point is that both the shop and the mechanics don't really like warranty work because they can make a fair profit doing customer-pay work. If you take your Stinger to a dealer that did not sell you the car, the service department "should" treat you like a customer from their dealership, but some will not do so in subtle ways - longer waiting times, extended appointment times, etc. and they may be slipping their own cars in front of your repair if they get backed up. It's not right, and Kia would jump sideways if they found out, but it does happen.

 

[James Hamilton]

AGREED. Owners reading these forums need to keep things in perspective. There would be approximately 1000 Stingers delivered now in Australia and because we are only reading comments from what would be a very small percentage of these 1000 owners it is very easy to magnify in our minds the true scale of problems that are out there.

For a first generation vehicle that has been designed and developed from a blank canvas the quality issues that are occurring with the Stinger would be as low as ANY other brand on the market including the likes of the premium German players and industry leaders in quality....Lexus ( just read any JD Power initial quality survey in the last 10 years ). Cars have somewhere in the order of 30 to 40 thousand parts and on any car , first generation ones especially, a handful of these parts at least will always fail.

What is equally or even more important than product quality is how the manufacturers support their customers when something does go wrong. Remember the dealer is an independent operator selling cars under license from the manufacturer so they actually make money from quality issues in the product as Kia has to pay them to carry out any rectification work and the cost ultimately goes back to the factory. The dealer has no agenda to resist repairing your car and any resistance buyers may experience is coming indirectly from the manufacturer. Just look at "dieselgate" and how long it took VW to get their head out of the sand leaving their dealer network to cop the wrath and frustration of so many customers.
If you are ever not happy with how your dealer is handling a product quality issues don't "shoot the messenger". Instead, bypass them and contact the manufacturer directly so they cant hide behind the dealer and it's much harder for a manufacturer to say NO directly to a customer.

Agreed but quality issue problems are starting to show their ugly head in Stinger more and more every week. Already there is the diff issue, the rattling trunk latch, the interior trim pieces falling off &/or rattling, the centre console noises and also now the paint issues (which is affecting not just yellow as Kia claim)....This is not the Kia quality I am used to. Have to also say that dealer response to my issues has been far from good and sound like I am not the only one in Aus to exp this. A recent customer experience survey by Roy Morgan showed Kia had the biggest fall in rankings for any top 10 brand. Not good Kia.

 

[MerlintheMad]

quality issue problems are starting to show their ugly head in Stinger more and more every week.

Of course. Because more and more Stingers are being driven. Out of the thousands we are going to hear all about the few that exhibit issues. Some individual cars are even going to be "lemons". Every batch of cars have them crop up. And every lemon is UGLY. Don't agree and then immediately disagree.

 

[forzanerazzurri]

Corners had to be cut to keep the price down. This is a good car but there are significant areas of concern where Kia has cheapened out. Paint, leather, transmission and anyone who been under one can see the cost cutting there as well.

 

[James Hamilton]

Of course. Because more and more Stingers are being driven. Out of the thousands we are going to hear all about the few that exhibit issues. Some individual cars are even going to be "lemons". Every batch of cars have them crop up. And every lemon is UGLY. Don't agree and then immediately disagree.

Gee thanks for that informative reply, Scoop. You contributed some useful info.

 

[forzanerazzurri]

I do know that the manual mentions often that a "noise" may occur when this or that component on the car is used: including brakes feeling not entirely smooth and making a scratching noise: "this is normal operation" is the typical caveat. As long as your LSD (Limited Slip Differential) is working without a hitch and is not screaming at you, "this is normal operation" can be resorted to. I guess the car's noise production is not going to satisfy. Does it interfere with your enjoyment of the Harman Kardon surround sound?

Dude wtf? You sound like a Kia rep trying to brush off a warranty claim.

 

[Paul32]

Corners had to be cut to keep the price down. This is a good car but there are significant areas of concern where Kia has cheapened out. Paint, leather, transmission and anyone who been under one can see the cost cutting there as well.

Nothing wrong with cutting costs if it does not cut quality. Mine is perfect so far as have all of the other 3 Kia's I have owned.

 

[mldavis2]

Nothing wrong with cutting costs if it does not cut quality. Mine is perfect so far as have all of the other 3 Kia's I have owned.

All cars are a compromise between quality, function and price. Despite the attempts, no car is trouble-free throughout the entire model run, not Rolls-Royce, not Bentley, none of them regardless of price. My GT2 is 5 months old with 10,000 miles. So far it is perfect. No one talks about those, just the owners or leasers with problems.

 

[NYLAWBIZ]

All cars are a compromise between quality, function and price. Despite the attempts, no car is trouble-free throughout the entire model run, not Rolls-Royce, not Bentley, none of them regardless of price. My GT2 is 5 months old with 10,000 miles. So far it is perfect. No one talks about those, just the owners or leasers with problems.

It's a freakin KIA, you know modern Korean cars hold up.

 

[atomiccow]

Corners had to be cut to keep the price down. This is a good car but there are significant areas of concern where Kia has cheapened out. Paint, leather, transmission and anyone who been under one can see the cost cutting there as well.

I hope by "anyone" you're not referring to anyone who's seen the Savagegeese Youtube video of him talking about how the under body shows how costs have been cut compared to the Genesis G80, which the Stinger's platform shares some similarity with. I don't call not using double wishbone front suspension cost-cutting. I call that not asking me to pay for something that I don't necessarily want... Those who want it can pay the $10,000 difference for the Genesis and get it. I don't recall his video criticizing anything about the car's actual quality of components.

If you have legitimate concerns about the cars under body, such as bad rust-proofing, welding, or use of parts that aren't durable enough, then I think we'd all like to know.

For those put off about the "quality problems." I can say that math speaks. In Canada, the car is warrantied with a 5-year near-bumper-to-bumper warranty. That's two years more than most others. The power train is warrantied here for a fairly standard 5-year period, but it's warrantied in the US for 10 years. That's 5 years more than most. All Stingers come out of the same factory in South Korea. My mind tells me that US Stingers are not going to be extra durable with different parts. I also don't believe that Kia is just eating up 5 years worth of repairs for Americans out of their bottom-line. My mind tells me that they don't expect the car to break at the average rate and therefor it doesn't really make as big of a difference for them to warranty the US cars for longer. The benefit is that it helps them build their brand name in the highly competitive market that the US is.

Maybe some of us have never been in lemons, and maybe some of us have always been in lemons. I don't think I'm either. I think I just have a realistic expectation of what is the average, which is much worse than what most think it is. I think it's natural for one to think that they've got the worse and everyone else has gotten better, but that's probably not the case. If you think you have it that bad, then I agree, you've objectively got one thing that's better than the average to protect you from it: your warranty.

 

[Paul32]

I hope by "anyone" you're not referring to anyone who's seen the Savagegeese Youtube video of him talking about how the under body shows how costs have been cut compared to the Genesis G80, which the Stinger's platform shares some similarity with. I don't call not using double wishbone front suspension cost-cutting. I call that not asking me to pay for something that I don't necessarily want... Those who want it can pay the $10,000 difference for the Genesis and get it. I don't recall his video criticizing anything about the car's actual quality of components.

If you have legitimate concerns about the cars under body, such as bad rust-proofing, welding, or use of parts that aren't durable enough, then I think we'd all like to know.

For those put off about the "quality problems." I can say that math speaks. In Canada, the car is warrantied with a 5-year near-bumper-to-bumper warranty. That's two years more than most others. The power train is warrantied here for a fairly standard 5-year period, but it's warrantied in the US for 10 years. That's 5 years more than most. All Stingers come out of the same factory in South Korea. My mind tells me that US Stingers are not going to be extra durable with different parts. I also don't believe that Kia is just eating up 5 years worth of repairs for Americans out of their bottom-line. My mind tells me that they don't expect the car to break at the average rate and therefor it doesn't really make as big of a difference for them to warranty the US cars for longer. The benefit is that it helps them build their brand name in the highly competitive market that the US is.

Maybe some of us have never been in lemons, and maybe some of us have always been in lemons. I don't think I'm either. I think I just have a realistic expectation of what is the average, which is much worse than what most think it is. I think it's natural for one to think that they've got the worse and everyone else has gotten better, but that's probably not the case. If you think you have it that bad, then I agree, you've objectively got one thing that's better than the average to protect you from it: your warranty.

The US power train warranty runs for 10 yrs for the original buyer only, 5 yrs for subsequent owners. I have never seen a statistic on this but, the number of original purchasers that keep their car more than 5 years must be pretty low.

 

[MerlintheMad]

@forzanerazzurri read the manual. It mentions in a lot of places how noises, vibrations, clicking sounds, "pulsation" etc., are "normal" and do not indicate anything unusual or wrong happening. I guess Kia is just trying to avoid having to fulfill their warranty agreements.

 

[Waynerm002]

I get that some vehicles have issues but come on, the majority of owners are not experiencing these issues and the few that are, we can appreciate your frustrations on getting a new vehicle and having issues occur early in the ownership cycle. It sucks. You do have a very good warranty on the vehicle, some dealers are not as responsive as others and some reps are the same. Just remember you are dealing with people, depending on how the interaction goes, some can be helpful while others might not. Keep escalating and go to the top if you have to, in order to get your issue worked on. Not saying anyone has done this but we know when we get frustrated we can lose our cool and that will make folks reluctant to assist. So keep a level head and keep working to get your issue worked on. At the end of the day, it’s a piece of machinery, it can be replaced or fixed. There are bigger issues in the world.