This car is driving me insane!

[7Andrei7]

I have a 2.0 GT Line RWD for almost 3 years now. 97.000 KM.
Every single time I changed from summer to winter and vice versa I just can't get the wheels balanced. There is ALWAYS a vibration at 130-140km/h (80-85mph). Usually they manage to get them balanced from the third or fourth attempt (!!!) and then no more vibration until the seasons change again.
This happened from the very first time. I had to change to winter tires 1 week after I bought it and it's been happening ever since.
I have different 18" rims for winter. And the original 19" for summer.
I had Pirelli & Michelin for winter and Continental and now Nokian for summer. Doesn't matter. Every time, the same.
I've been to maybe 10 different wheel shops in Bucharest and Vienna.
I'm driving on all kinds of roads all over Europe.. so it's surely not the roads.
I am absolutely desperate!

Now, I also had a strong vibration while braking at about 50mph. Today I changed rotors and pads front + pads rear (EBC yellow stuff and EBC rotors front + Textar rotors back). And I still have this vibration while braking (50mph) + the general vibration at 80-85mph (after 2 wheel balancings last week on brand new Micheline Pilot Alpin 5 tires). I drove 450km today and it's still there.
They checked the rims and are fine. Also suspension seems fine.
Spent 1500$ trying to fix it and I just can't get it to stop vibrating.
What can trigger this vibration? Why is it so hard to have a smooth steering? Today was the first time I just felt that I want to get rid of it..

 

[n8hegr8]

I have a 2.0 GT Line RWD for almost 3 years now. 97.000 KM.
Every single time I changed from summer to winter and vice versa I just can't get the wheels balanced. There is ALWAYS a vibration at 130-140km/h (80-85mph). Usually they manage to get them balanced from the third or fourth attempt (!!!) and then no more vibration until the seasons change again.
This happened from the very first time. I had to change to winter tires 1 week after I bought it and it's been happening ever since.
I have different 18" rims for winter. And the original 19" for summer.
I had Pirelli & Michelin for winter and Continental and now Nokian for summer. Doesn't matter. Every time, the same.
I've been to maybe 10 different wheel shops in Bucharest and Vienna.
I'm driving on all kinds of roads all over Europe.. so it's surely not the roads.
I am absolutely desperate!

Now, I also had a strong vibration while braking at about 50mph. Today I changed rotors and pads front + pads rear (EBC yellow stuff and EBC rotors front + Textar rotors back). And I still have this vibration while braking (50mph) + the general vibration at 80-85mph (after 2 wheel balancings last week on brand new Micheline Pilot Alpin 5 tires). I drove 450km today and it's still there.
They checked the rims and are fine. Also suspension seems fine.
Spent 1500$ trying to fix it and I just can't get it to stop vibrating.
What can trigger this vibration? Why is it so hard to have a smooth steering? Today was the first time I just felt that I want to get rid of it..

can you not just put every thing stock back on and get some all seasons, with the correct sizes front and rear-(does the gt line have 2 different sizes front and rear like the gts do?) when i used to change a bunch of stuff on this one car i had back in the day, thats when i started having problems. after i was like no more mods. buy the car you want and keep it the way it was built from the factory.
no criticism, just thinking if you put every thing back the way it was from the factory, would it still vibrate? just some thoughts ok..

 

[GT Elite]

Are you using OEM rims or aftermarket Ones? If aftermarket is the rim offset different from OEM rims. The reason I ask is that MacPherson struts can be really sensitive to shimmy is outside of point where the angle of the strut intersects the ground (this is an imaginary point and as memory serves the difference from this point to the centreline of the tire contact is called the scrub radius). I once had a Capri V-6 that had a front end shimmy that was due to this effect and it was almost impossible to get rid of.

 

[7Andrei7]

Summer is exactly how it was built. 19" staggered. Still vibrated, even with its original tires, after they were off the car from February to April. I managed to balance them in the end, in the 5th try or something like that.
For winter, I have the correct spec rims and tires. I didn't mod anything.
As for all-seasons, I really can't do that. We have super hot summers and I go snowboarding every other week during winter so I need proper winter tires.

 

[7Andrei7]

Are you using OEM rims or aftermarket Ones? If aftermarket is the rim offset different from OEM rims. The reason I ask is that MacPherson struts can be really sensitive to shimmy is outside of point where the angle of the strut intersects the ground (this is an imaginary point and as memory serves the difference from this point to the centreline of the tire contact is called the scrub radius). I once had a Capri V-6 that had a front end shimmy that was due to this effect and it was almost impossible to get rid of.

For winter, the only difference to original 18" stinger wheels is that mine are ET30 as opposed to the ET34 that the 18" Stinger has.
Could this be causing it?
But what about the summers which are on the original 19" Stinger wheels? I have the same problems balancing those.

 

[Ozstung]

You could take it to Kia like i did and get them to run a diagnostic test on all 4 wheels. The machine analysis all aspects of the wheel it even showed how much weight was going individually through all 4 corners. To do this they drove the vehicle. And let me tell you there was a huge difference from wheel to wheel.

My take was if you do any mods it potentially unballances the car. In my case lowering it has made a proper wheel alignment impossible.

The diagnostic test was free.

 

[GT Elite]

The only other thing I can think of is that the wheels are not entered on the hubs/studs and/or the wrong lug nuts are being used. For instance, on my MY ‘22 Stinger for the stock summer wheels the lug nuts have a shoulder/shank (no taper at the end). In this setup the rim is mounted concentrically to the hub.

My winter wheels on the other hand use a tapered lug nut and the wheels are centred to the studs. Something to check.

 

[Deviate]

The only other thing I can think of is that the wheels are not entered on the hubs/studs and/or the wrong lug nuts are being used. For instance, on my MY ‘22 Stinger for the stock summer wheels the lug nuts have a shoulder/shank (no taper at the end). In this setup the rim is mounted concentrically to the hub.

My winter wheels on the other hand use a tapered lug nut and the wheels are centred to the studs. Something to check.

Im sure you know this but you can get a hub centric ring for your wheels. At least to help center the wheel and help avoid any out of round situation from just centering on the studs.

 

[stoopid]

I had similar issues with a car years ago, 18" rims and needed to have them road force balanced which is more involved (and costly), and some places can't even do it. But that solved the issue immediately. Sidewalls on 18 and 19" sedan tires are fairly short, and the tire needs to sit at the ideal spot on the rims (which are never 100% perfectly round), which is what the road force balance determines.

 

[7Andrei7]

So, I have the correct lug nuts for each set of rims and hub centering ring for the non-oem pair. I alway check that they torque them properly.
I tried at my Kia dealer but they are totally incompetent in this regard.
How does road force balance work? Is it the extra drum pressing on the wheel? Never tried that but will search for one and try it.
I’ve taken time yesterday and went through 4 new re-balancing and checks at 3 different shops. Everyone is always very confident .
Anyway, it was first worse and then better. Now it’s totally smooth to about 75mph. Problem is above, and I didn’t get to test because I was just too mentally exhausted last night to go on the highway.
Our legal cruise speed is 87mph so I really need it to be smooth at that speed.

Could the bushings be to blame? Since it’s an electric steering, what transfers the vibrations from wheel to steering wheel? What type of bushings are there? I am thinking of changing them… even though all mechanics say suspension is fine.
And I’ve been through this pain first time after only 2 months of ownership, re-fitting the original summer wheels (rims and tires).

 

[General_Vodka]

So, I have the correct lug nuts for each set of rims and hub centering ring for the non-oem pair. I alway check that they torque them properly.
I tried at my Kia dealer but they are totally incompetent in this regard.
How does road force balance work? Is it the extra drum pressing on the wheel? Never tried that but will search for one and try it.
I’ve taken time yesterday and went through 4 new re-balancing and checks at 3 different shops. Everyone is always very confident .
Anyway, it was first worse and then better. Now it’s totally smooth to about 75mph. Problem is above, and I didn’t get to test because I was just too mentally exhausted last night to go on the highway.
Our legal cruise speed is 87mph so I really need it to be smooth at that speed.

Could the bushings be to blame? Since it’s an electric steering, what transfers the vibrations from wheel to steering wheel? What type of bushings are there? I am thinking of changing them… even though all mechanics say suspension is fine.
And I’ve been through this pain first time after only 2 months of ownership, re-fitting the original summer wheels (rims and tires).

There should be no transfer of vibrations through the steering rack. It's electric, all road imperfections get canceled out by the motor. It's called gear lash, and they tune it out. If it's working properly that is

 

[7Andrei7]

Are you sure? Because my vibration/wobbliness is exclusively in the steering wheel. If it is supposed to be canceled out by the steering it means there is something wrong with my steering. From when the car was brand new..

 

[General_Vodka]

Are you sure? Because my vibration/wobbliness is exclusively in the steering wheel. If it is supposed to be canceled out by the steering it means there is something wrong with my steering. From when the car was brand new..

I am talking about small vibrations, like a pebble in the road or bad pavement. The movement will move the gears back and forth but the electric sterring motor will absorb most of that movement. It will let large vibrations through. Has the shop checked the linkage? Also the suspension system needs a look over, same with the sway bar and end links. Something must be off. I have no idea why it goes away for a bit and then returns. I dont have any steering wheel vibrations and my setup is way stiffer than oem But I still have oem wheels and springs. Something tells me that the issue is not with your wheels, it's something else. You have messed around with the wheels and brakes too much and not noticed anything.

 

[0Rock]

I am having the same vibration issue with my GT (2020). I inquired the dealer and the manufacturer and none is willing to step up and fix the problem. The manufacturer tells me that it is a user issue and not a defective parts despite the widely expressed complaints. I am now wanting to replace the entire brake system (rotors and pads). If you have done something similar or have expert knowledge with various brands, what brand would you recommend? I would like to limit my spending at $1,000. Thank you in advance for your input.

 

[7Andrei7]

Just as a quick update.. it still vibrates like a pig from 80mph upwards. And it's not so much vibrations as it is very very rapid and small oscillations in the steering wheel.. not sure how to explain.
Trying to recall every single wheel change experience:

1. Bought the car (feb 19) and fitted new MSW 18" Rims + Pirelli Sottozero Winter Tires. Managed to get them balanced in the 4th or 5th try. Then, it was all smooth for 2 months.
The car was new so I just assumed it was super sensitive.

2. Because I didn't have pressure sensors for the winters and new ones arrived in 1 month, I had to take the summers apart in Feb to take the sensors out and then fit the new sensors in April. Again, the shop could not balance the wheels. This time, 100% original setup - squared 19" + Continental tires.
The shop said that my tires had oscillations. I tried to do something with Kia and warranty but they refused.
I managed to completely get rid of the vibrations after probably the 6th balance attempt within one month.

3. Nov 19 - again with the winter set. This time, they put them as they were (with a balance check) and surprisingly not vibrations. BUT, one tire was losing air... had to take the tire out, fix the flat. It was front left and they decided to move it to the rear.
Again, vibrations, but smaller this time so I decided to live with them. Then I went on the Authoban and at 170km/h it was already uncomfortable. Tried to rebalance again.. no better.

4. March 20 - Summers... maybe managed to get them to an acceptable level of vibrations from the 2nd try. Lived with it. Blamed the tires.

5. Nov 20 - Winters again would not stop vibrating.. they straightened one rim and managed to get them smooth enough to be happy with it. Took something like 3 balancing attempts.

6. March 21 - Decided to get new tires just for the rears of the summer set. Big mistake. Car was super understeer-y. Got new front tires as well (all Nokian Powerproof). The shop said both front rims had slight deformations and would be better to smooth them out before putting on the new tires. Agreed. Perfect balance from the first try with the new Nokians.
Was smooth all the way to last week.

7. Last week - new Michelin Aplin 5 for winter. Same winter rims. 6 balancing attempts so far... impossible to stop the vibrations.

I am considering buying a new set of 18" Kia rims. This is the only idea I have left.
Could be the suspension or the steering... but... the problems are the same from the very beginning.
So I'm thinking maybe the first set of 19" tires were indeed deformed and now with the new Nokian set it's all perfect.
And, maybe these MSW 18" rims are just bad and super super hard to balance. The 4mm in offset could be worsening the feeling... no clue. But this is a true nightmare I've been going through.

Sorry for the insanely long post.

 

[MerlintheMad]

And it's not so much vibrations as it is very very rapid and small oscillations in the steering wheel.. not sure how to explain.

One of the positive features of this car in my experience is the sensitive yet solid, even heavy, steering. "Oscillations"? I cannot relate!

And, maybe these MSW 18" rims are just bad and super super hard to balance.

Are these wheels on the less expensive side? It sounds like you've had less trouble getting perfect balance with the OEM wheels. If the balancing techs say that "both front rims had slight deformations and would be better to smooth them out before putting on the new tires", and you can confirm that no wheels damage has occurred, then sure sounds like cheap wheels are the issue.

I am considering buying a new set of 18" Kia rims. This is the only idea I have left.

A good aftermarket wheel will likely be less expensive than buying Kia wheels. Seriously, Kia wheels are ridiculously priced (back in summer '18, I asked, and a single GT 19" wheel was $630).

 

[7Andrei7]

@MerlintheMad I wouldn't say they were very cheap. The set was about 1000$. It's a low cost brand of OZ as far as I understood. The problem was finding something with a close enough ET to the original 18" Stinger wheels.
And as a note, a new 18" kia set is about 1500$.
I will make a final attempt on Monday, with a Road Force machine, as @stoopid recommended. If that doesn't work, my only other idea is new Kia rims. I want to get OEMs so there are no possible excuses to as why they would vibrate.

 

[stoopid]

Just as a quick update.. it still vibrates like a pig from 80mph upwards. And it's not so much vibrations as it is very very rapid and small oscillations in the steering wheel.. not sure how to explain.

I know exactly what you're trying to describe, same issue I was having per my last response. The vibration builds as an almost rumble, then decreases, then comes back again almost as soon as it goes away. I can only describe it as resonance. Mine happened around 70mph. It's a tire balance issue, but not side-to-side per-se but up and down (tire "out of round"). Road force balance is worth the cost, and really with any small sidewall tire it should be standard practice but only a small percent of mounted tires end up with an issue so most shops just balance and only offer road force (due to it being a more timely process) if the customer complains. Do the shops you've been at offer this? It requires a specific machine, they may not have it and can't offer it.

This page describes the issue and process quite well (I happen to have a good local discount tire shop, I got the Pilot sport for my last ride there): Discount Tire | Tires and Wheels for Sale | Online & In-Person

 

[7Andrei7]

@stoopid So far I've never tried that.. didn't know about it. But made an appointment for Monday at a place where they use Hunter Road Force machines. Hope that will do the trick! Or at least tell me what is wrong with the wheels.

 

[7Andrei7]

Ok, so I went to this new shop and, as expected, one of the wheels did have an excessive road force detected.

The technician said it's the tire that is to blame. Even though I really pushed him to take the tire off and check the rim properly he assured me that it's the tire. A new Michelin tire... very disappointing.
He managed to get it repositioned on the rim, from the second attempt, in such a way that there was no more warning on the road force machine. The wheel was mounted on the rear.

They rebalanced all 4 wheels and I'd say it's now 99% smooth at 87mph. I am already super sensitive because of this whole nightmare so it seems like I feel every single shit and probably even imagine some.
The best thing is that vibrations don't increase even if I take it up to 120mph, which I did briefly, just for a test. I normally never exceed 95mph, in short bursts, to overtake someone.

I was thinking afterwards about next winter, when the bad tire will have to be moved to the front. So I called Michelin and they said I can take it to them in spring to have it checked out. If it turns out to be out of spec, they will replace it. If that is the case I'll probably need to buy a new one as well to pair it but at least there will be no vibrations.

Thank you all for your inputs! And thank you @stoopid for teaching me about road force. This is where I'll do everything from now on.

PS: If an admin could change the name of the topic to something less dramatic, maybe it will be of use to others in the future.
Perhaps: Successfully balancing your wheels in less than 7 attempts.