3.3TT So, I broke my engine

[xot1]

Interesting, first I've heard of an HKS plug being the cause of an engine failure. Again lots of variables play a role on the failure of an specific part, but definitely something worth looking into, because, as you said it's just to eliminate that variable.

If you break the tip of the plug, chances are high that the little metal piece is going to damage the cylinder wall or the turbine.

 

[Mr. Tech]

So for the logs:

First pull, from 2nd gear all the way to 7th gear.
The car wasn't as fast as it should be but nothing felt or sounded strange.
However two things are weird in the log:
1) Timings suddenly pulled in cylinder #2 (ign2), by much more than a regular timing correction. This happens in 5th gear, at 20psi of boost. Timings were really good so nothing really indicating why the sudden timing pull.
2) In 7th gear, AFR suddenly goes lean (to 15:1), triggering JB4 safety mode. The really bizarre thing is that this is bank #1 and the problems occured in bank #2 so I don't know how to connect this event with the failure. Still, that is something out of the ordinary that I had never seen before (and I do a lot of pulls).

View attachment 51862

That night I changed the octane booster from Lucas to Boostane so I thought that was just the ECU adapting to the fuel and the cooler weather so despite the weird correction in the first log, I gave it another try.

Second pull is the one I showed in the first post, it starts in 2nd gear as well and shit happens in 4th gear.
On that second log, we can see that
1) Ign2 still has a really bad correction
2) Throttle closure at the shift, not sure why. The car usually doesn't do that with my settings at this RPM.
3) Boost 24.4psi
4) AFR2 18.6 -> This time it is bank #2
Then the JB4 went into safety mode, but the damage was already done.

View attachment 51863

As a reference, here is what a normal pull (from 40 to 170mph) looks like with the same settings, few weeks before:

View attachment 51864

as you can see, boost is not crazy high, timings are very stable, no AFR spikes.

I attach the log files of the two pulls before the engine failure for those who want to see. Check at the timestamp to see which one is which.

I just have one comment on the throttle closure. That happens to me a lot. After going back and forth with Terry, he thinks it's due to hitting the rev limiter. The problem was remedied by manually shifting slightly early. It's definitely hard to time correctly though haha.

I'm guessing the stock ECU isn't anticipating that the car can hit redline that fast and ends up being a bit slow with the shift.

And a quick question on your ignition timing. What do all 6 typically look like on a good run? Are they right on top of each other or pretty varied?

 

[xot1]

I just have one comment on the throttle closure. That happens to me a lot. After going back and forth with Terry, he thinks it's due to hitting the rev limiter. The problem was remedied by manually shifting slightly early. It's definitely hard to time correctly though haha.

I'm guessing the stock ECU isn't anticipating that the car can hit redline that fast and ends up being a bit slow with the shift.

And a quick question on your ignition timing. What do all 6 typically look like on a good run? Are they right on top of each other or pretty varied?

Throttle closure almost never happens during my pulls. Have a look at the normal log (last picture). No closure. I got hundreds like that one.
What you are talking about is just a normal thing and usually happens if you shift too late.
For ignition timing, on a good run, I have close to zero timing deviation.

 

[STINGER]

Yes. Brand new batch of six IKH27, carefully gapped and installed less than a month before it happened. I did several 8.5s 60-130mph runs with these same plugs so I cannot say I ever had any performance issues with them. Until the day..

View attachment 51868

But the plug may have been just a result of the blown exhaust valve.

That tip looks melted to me.

I expected this kind of reaction and while I may try them to eliminate that one variable, I must say that I know a lot of people who have zero problems with the two-step colder Densos (most people who say they had problems used the one-step colder plugs). I also personally know one guy who blow a spark plug tip (engine byebye) with HKS plugs.

Was he running 99% meth as well?

I think this problem is more common were you are cause you guys are doing long runs and pushing the engine hard.

 

[xot1]

Was he running 99% meth as well?

I think this problem is more common were you are cause you guys are doing long runs and pushing the engine hard.

Probably. Most people do here.

 

[STINGER]

Probably. Most people do here.

The more I am reading about the pros & cons about running 50/50 vs 100 the more I am thinking the cause was the meth.

 

[xot1]

The more I am reading about the pros & cons about running 50/50 vs 100 the more I am thinking the cause was the meth.

I have hundreds of run with 99% meth,
I know a lot of people who do so. I think Tork uses 99% too.
It may have created a favorable condition that facilitated the problem to happen, but I doubt we can say it is the cause. Then why suddenly?

 

[G70 Owner]

I have hundreds of run with 99% meth,
I know a lot of people who do so. I think Tork uses 99% too.
It may have created a favorable condition that facilitated the problem to happen, but I doubt we can say it is the cause. Then why suddenly?

You didn’t run out of meth during the run right? I mean you must have checked so maybe a smarter question would be is if you’ve checked the plumbing on your WMI and made sure it’s still up to snuff?

 

[xot1]

You didn’t run out of meth during the run right? I mean you must have checked so maybe a smarter question would be is if you’ve checked the plumbing on your WMI and made sure it’s still up to snuff?

I did not. Meth tank was full and you can see in the logs the meth signal is always 100. I did not check the system after the engine failure but I did prime it to make sure everything was good before doing pulls so I do not believe that is a meth failure. It should have shown in the logs.

 

[STINGER]

I have hundreds of run with 99% meth,
I know a lot of people who do so. I think Tork uses 99% too.
It may have created a favorable condition that facilitated the problem to happen, but I doubt we can say it is the cause. Then why suddenly?

I think the condition definitely escalated the problem, but had you had a higher mix of water in there your window of safety would have been larger and could have possibly avoided the problem. Water provides cylinder cooling and helps bring back the safety window we need with our modified cars. To make power more meth is better as it burns better than fuel and from my reading a huge amount needs to be dumped in there to make a difference in AFR, you are running a 12 gph nozzle which is larger than average and still maintaining good AFR, this likely means your were making amazing power and pushing the motor hard with a small safety window for condition change.

 

[xot1]

Quick peak at the damage for the curious folks.

 

[Hawk853]

Quick peak at the damage for the curious folks.

View attachment 51918View attachment 51917

I was expecting more carnage. I’d be looking to redo those heads with super alloy stainless/iconel valves. Supertech or Ferrea might have something. Supertech has quite a few Hyundai/Kia applications currently.

That one gouge is pretty deep. So unfortunate. Might be worth a call to Darton.

Thinking even more radically, the only guy I can think of that might build a cam for this engine is Kiel at Kelford in NZ.

I’m not being insensitive to the hit your wallet just took, I just can’t help myself with this stuff. It would take something like this for me to make the jump with the car being so new.

 

[cncBilly]

Quick peak at the damage for the curious folks.

View attachment 51918View attachment 51917

Do you do much of the work yourself or do have a trusted shop you use?

 

[xot1]

Do you do much of the work yourself or do have a trusted shop you use?

For bolt-ons yes but not for the engine

 

[Mr. Tech]

My boost safety is set to 25psi and in the log the boost spike hits 24.4. My settings usually do 22psi peak, 19psi redline but since the boost produced is an additive thing, it depends on how high the stock boost goes, and that day it was abnormally high.

JB4 can show the current gear, its almost been a year since this feature was added.

Thanks for letting me know about the feature. Looks like I was still using V10... and we're now at V19 haha. I was WAY behind with my updates.

 

[M'Kehyah]

Can you post a close-up of the broken face of the sparkplug? From the picture I might be able to see if it was a crack/flaw propagation or a violent event like a piece of valve smacking it...

The valve looks like it failed when it closed on the plug tip which must have been in one piece... Do the other plugs have that black coating?
Did you find the pieces? On the screen on the cat converter?

 

[xot1]

Can you post a close-up of the broken face of the sparkplug? From the picture I might be able to see if it was a crack/flaw propagation or a violent event like a piece of valve smacking it...

The valve looks like it failed when it closed on the plug tip which must have been in one piece... Do the other plugs have that black coating?
Did you find the pieces? On the screen on the cat converter?

The other plugs were in perfect condition, no oil stain. The valve pieces were found in the cylinder.

 

[ecko04]

@xot1 much respect to you for starting this thread and respectfully dodging all the inquiries about how much you paid for repairs that nearly derailed the thread.

All too often when things go catastrophically bad people just disappear. It’s cool that you posted these points of failure for others to see. Thank you.

 

[oddball]

+1
Thanks for the carnage pics, too. This is the first I've seen of the head/piston and it's always interesting to see how the manufacturer approached GDI. The "common wisdom" used to be make the chamber as smooth and consistent as possible. Now with GDI there has to be a sub-chamber, but Kia also put in a couple of divots and ledges. Interesting stuff.

 

[xot1]

@xot1 much respect to you for starting this thread and respectfully dodging all the inquiries about how much you paid for repairs that nearly derailed the thread.

All too often when things go catastrophically bad people just disappear. It’s cool that you posted these points of failure for others to see. Thank you.

Thanks.
I just want to show what happened to my car, not talk about warranty stuff (different country, it wouldn't even matter).
This engine is not immune to failures, and some people have run and will run into trouble. Often people don't openly tell their stories, they are mostly shared in private. I myself heard many cases of people breaking their engine and even if I think they should not hide it, I don't have the right to expose them or talk about their cars in their back. However since here it is my own car, I just wanted to tell what happened, instead of becoming quiet and suddenly parting out, like some.