3.3TT What's the truth about downpipe/midpipe performance?

[xot1]

Primary DP add a lot of power.
Secondary DP are only beneficial in certain cases.
Catbacks also adds peak power but robs a bit of the low end.

For performance I would recommend Primary DP and stock exhaust.
For even more performance Primary DP with HFC instead of secondary cats, good flowing catback, and intake, intercooler.

 

[RUFFSTUFF]

Primary DP add a lot of power.
Secondary DP are only beneficial in certain cases.
Catbacks also adds peak power but robs a bit of the low end.

For performance I would recommend Primary DP and stock exhaust.
For even more performance Primary DP with HFC instead of secondary cats, good flowing catback, and intake, intercooler.

Primaries... and the headaches that come with them...!

 

[xot1]

Primaries... and the headaches that come with them...!

What need to be done must be done if you want to be fast.

 

[RUFFSTUFF]

What need to be done must be done if you want to be fast.

Fast? Faster than what? It's fast off the showroom floor. There's always going to be someone faster, SO what's the goal? How much power does primaries add? What's the end result? Is this a car we are driving to get milk and eggs or is this a car that has been stripped down to just a drivers seat, roll cage and a fat set of slicks... I'm all for bragging rights, but sometimes a list of cool parts is just that.

 

[xot1]

Fast? Faster than what? It's fast off the showroom floor. There's always going to be someone faster, SO what's the goal? How much power does primaries add? What's the end result? Is this a car we are driving to get milk and eggs or is this a car that has been stripped down to just a drivers seat, roll cage and a fat set of slicks... I'm all for bragging rights, but sometimes a list of cool parts is just that.

In times of virus, you definitely want to be first to grab the milk and eggs.

 

[xot1]

More seriously

Why do people seek records?
Why does Tim Ball keep improving his time when he can just buy an m5 and press the pedal?
Some people want to be faster because they like to be faster. That's it. Very few people do primary downpipes just to add to a "cool part list".

 

[RUFFSTUFF]

In times of virus, you definitely want to be first to grab the milk and eggs.

Now that I can relate to!

 

[RUFFSTUFF]

More seriously
Very few people do primary downpipes just to add to a "cool part list".

Yeah, sometimes it's just bad advice.

 

[Mr. Tech]

Primary DP add a lot of power.
Secondary DP are only beneficial in certain cases.

What about the case with an intake, JB4 tuner, and FMIC? Is that one of the "certain cases"? Earlier posts in this thread make me think it'll add a small amount of low end, but your cat back comment makes me wonder if this will rob some low end for top end gains?

 

[Tonkabob]

What about the case with an intake, JB4 tuner, and FMIC? Is that one of the "certain cases"? Earlier posts in this thread make me think it'll add a small amount of low end, but your cat back comment makes me wonder if this will rob some low end for top end gains?

I haven't seen any evidence of mods reducing power any where in the power band.

 

[xot1]

What about the case with an intake, JB4 tuner, and FMIC? Is that one of the "certain cases"? Earlier posts in this thread make me think it'll add a small amount of low end, but your cat back comment makes me wonder if this will rob some low end for top end gains?

If you have a very high flow intake/exhaust, secondary DP can help making the car a bit faster in the top end but in most cases there are very little gains.

I found
WMI + Intake FMIC primary DP stock everything else to be a very fast and pleasant to drive combo. The top end a bit slower than full exhaust cars but the low and mid range is crazy fast. However it probably is not very good for the turbos long term.

 

[turboAWD]

Finally got around to checking out the Enkei TY-5s.... WOW those look great! And the price point is awesome. Do you have a picture with them on your car? I can't seem to find a picture with them on a Stinger, but they look great on other cars.

Just a couple of quick ones I took with my cell phone.. Mind you, they are 18s, stock suspension.

Gotta get a better shot of the 285s on the back

 

[Rakker]

Wow, thanks for the datapoint! Now if I could only find lighter wheels that won’t cost $2k haha. What did you end up running on your Stinger?

And did you try a catback with the mids? If so, did that make a difference?

I paid about $170 for these I think. They are about 9 lbs less than stock.

 

[RUFFSTUFF]

I paid about $170 for these I think. They are about 9 lbs less than stock.

View attachment 41375

I need those.

 

[Mr. Tech]

Just a couple of quick ones I took with my cell phone.. Mind you, they are 18s, stock suspension.

Gotta get a better shot of the 285s on the back

Wow! I've never been a fan of black wheels, but they look amazing on that gray. Definitely the right color choice for that car. I've got a red Stinger so I'll probably end up going with a silver finish... but then I just looked at the Stance SF03's... Slightly different U-spoke design with the same weight for a similar price. Tough choice.

And 285s on the back?! Wow that's wide. It looks like they still fit well inside the fender though

I paid about $170 for these I think. They are about 9 lbs less than stock.

View attachment 41375

Also a great looking wheel! Looks like we all have the same taste with those U-spoke designs haha.

 

[Mr. Tech]

I haven't seen any evidence of mods reducing power any where in the power band.

That's good to know! I must've been interpreting the dyno charts incorrectly. Or, perhaps it's just a matter of being within the margin of error that makes me think power is lost. Here's one that I believe you shared in a different thread. Not sure if this is your dyno run or if you shared someone else's, but I read it as losing torque in the 2800-3200RPM range, then again in the 4500-5200RPM range vs stock DP.

If you have a very high flow intake/exhaust, secondary DP can help making the car a bit faster in the top end but in most cases there are very little gains.

I found
WMI + Intake FMIC primary DP stock everything else to be a very fast and pleasant to drive combo. The top end a bit slower than full exhaust cars but the low and mid range is crazy fast. However it probably is not very good for the turbos long term.

Thanks for input! WMI is still a bit scary for me, being relatively new at modding. I've been working on cars for quite a while, but it's always been bolt-ons. Do you think FMIC is more valuable than a catless secondary? The ARK secondary is currently $100 off so I may get that first anyway, then get the FMIC sometime later.

I should probably preface this with the fact that I don't race at a track, but I have noticed unbelievably high IATs since I installed my DIY intakes with no heat shielding. If I remember correctly, it's up at least 20 to 30 degrees in the same driving conditions vs the stock intakes.

 

[Tonkabob]

That's good to know! I must've been interpreting the dyno charts incorrectly. Or, perhaps it's just a matter of being within the margin of error that makes me think power is lost. Here's one that I believe you shared in a different thread. Not sure if this is your dyno run or if you shared someone else's, but I read it as losing torque in the 2800-3200RPM range, then again in the 4500-5200RPM range vs stock DP.

View attachment 41376



Thanks for input! WMI is still a bit scary for me, being relatively new at modding. I've been working on cars for quite a while, but it's always been bolt-ons. Do you think FMIC is more valuable than a catless secondary? The ARK secondary is currently $100 off so I may get that first anyway, then get the FMIC sometime later.

I should probably preface this with the fact that I don't race at a track, but I have noticed unbelievably high IATs since I installed my DIY intakes with no heat shielding. If I remember correctly, it's up at least 20 to 30 degrees in the same driving conditions vs the stock intakes.

I would 100% do FMIC before secondaries.
The dyno is not mine. I think the tiny gain down low is real and the tiny loss around 4800 could be run variation but would need to see more dynos. Maybe timing pull or something. That small short window of power loss doesn't make sense. I would believe it if it stayed, not so short. Like 4800 to redline....

 

[xot1]

Definitely FMIC over secondary dp!
Unless you seek a louder sound over performance.
But you want a decent FMIC, in terms of cooling and flow.

 

[Mr. Tech]

I would 100% do FMIC before secondaries.
The dyno is not mine. I think the tiny gain down low is real and the tiny loss around 4800 could be run variation but would need to see more dynos. Maybe timing pull or something. That small short window of power loss doesn't make sense. I would believe it if it stayed, not so short. Like 4800 to redline....

Definitely FMIC over secondary dp!
Unless you seek a louder sound over performance.
But you want a decent FMIC, in terms of cooling and flow.

Thanks for the advice, guys! I think I'm gonna take it. Now if only Mishimoto would finish their FMIC already haha. Have you guys noticed any specific FMIC standing out above the crowd? I know there are some cheap ones, but I don't mind spending $1k if it's significantly better than a $500 FMIC.

 

[Mr. Tech]

Just an update for anyone reading this thread in the future. I decided to start with lighter wheels (Stance SF03 Brushed Titanium to drop 10lbs on each corner), then I'll get the FMIC in the next couple months (possibly the Mishimoto FMIC), then, later this year, I'll pick up an Ark secondary downpipe. Once I get the Ark secondary downpipe, I'll do a handful of before and after 0-60 pulls with a dragy and post them here, along with any anecdotal differences I notice.