Stinger JB4 Pure Hybrid Turbo Testing

[DarthVaderIX]

You can bench flash it but the standard available files only give you the basics, boost, timing , maybe afr. Tork has spent hundreds of hours on shifting launch and torque limits and more but still not 100% there.
Unfortunately picking the wrong horse out of the gate may leave you on an island.

I have not seen videos that satisfy me from that tuner. Not bashing him for effort and budget etc.

I have not seen videos that satisfy me from that tuner. Not bashing him for effort and budget etc. with that said what would you suggest for initial 2-3 mods?

 

[Angel]

An experienced ECU tuner with a Damos file isn't going to be able to over come the ecu torque limits. I may be just a country bumkin but i knew this would hit the same limits that all Stingers are facing and you would end up with big hp poor shifting and mediocre results. (This will be a great roll racer though) I want this to work cause it could be awesome but if you aren't working with lap3 or Tork i think you are heading for a dead end. Your ecu tuner is going to look at this ECU and say its too much effort. If they already had it figured out they would be selling ecu tunes and we would all be running 11.5s.

I don’t think he will need to work with lap 3 or Tork to get it right lol ... I think that’s an overstatement... but I agree I feel is something that will take some time ... we don’t know the resources and knowledge that this company that terry is working has .... just because it took Tork let’s say 6 months to figure something out does not mean someone else can do it in 2 months ... this is an example of course but just saying ...... I think there are other companies working on the stinger that just have not put there info out there .... I truly beleive Terry will figure it out and get it right ... after all he has a great product on the JB4 and I can tell Terry is really taking this serious ... we can hate on the man and say this or say that but he has a great product and strongly stands behind his product .... it’s being used by hundreds of people if not thousands if you include the bmw community .... I know this is a bit personal to him lol and you got to respect Terry business model and competitiveness .....Now this my neutral opinion....

 

[DarthVaderIX]

I don’t think he will need to work with lap 3 or Tork to get it right lol ... I think that’s an overstatement... but I agree I feel is something that will take some time ... we don’t know the resources and knowledge that this company that terry is working has .... just because it took Tork let’s say 6 months to figure something out does not mean someone else can do it in 2 months ... this is an example of course but just saying ...... I think there are other companies working on the stinger that just have not put there info out there .... I truly beleive Terry will figure it out and get it right ... after all he has a great product on the JB4 and I can tell Terry is really taking this serious ... we can hate on the man and say this or say that but he has a great product and strongly stands behind his product .... it’s being used by hundreds of people if not thousands if you include the bmw community .... I know this is a bit personal to him lol and you got to respect Terry business model and competitiveness .....Now this my neutral opinion....

I understand that, and fully agree. I know that I’m going BMS. I’m staying if best first mod=exhaust and so on.

 

[brancky3]

An experienced ECU tuner with a Damos file isn't going to be able to over come the ecu torque limits. I may be just a country bumkin but i knew this would hit the same limits that all Stingers are facing and you would end up with big hp poor shifting and mediocre results. (This will be a great roll racer though) I want this to work cause it could be awesome but if you aren't working with lap3 or Tork i think you are heading for a dead end. Your ecu tuner is going to look at this ECU and say its too much effort. If they already had it figured out they would be selling ecu tunes and we would all be running 11.5s.

You can bench flash it but the standard available files only give you the basics, boost, timing , maybe afr. Tork has spent hundreds of hours on shifting launch and torque limits and more but still not 100% there.
Unfortunately picking the wrong horse out of the gate may leave you on an island.

These comments are not going to age well

 

[Adamdan]

Are these torque limits what the stinger does not hit full boost in 1st and 2nd combined with the small delay and softer launch? I have a awd and it feels like 1st and 2nd gear are held back in power. Any thing over map 2 is where I feel the power being held back.

 

[KLR STINGER]

To be clear..no tuners have a fully defined DAMOS or A2L file yet. That is the problem. Its still early days, so complete table locations, functions, scalars and definitions are not available. A DAMOS file is basically a legend for the tables and functions in the ECU. With it, tuning is easy. Without, hard but not impossible. There is nothing particularly hard about the the stinger ECU, its just that right now its flying blind so its trial and error. Not knowing what you're looking for or at makes it hard. Otherwise It leverages the same strategies and logic every other modern torque demand based. Sooner or later, definitions files will get out and then anybody with supporting ECU flash systems will be able to produce the same results.

e85 is not going to cut it at this power level with the current fuel system. We had to go to 109 and meth. So like Terry said, were going to up the jet size for now until were done with the fuel delivery project. That part of this project will be released when we're done. Sad, but this gets out of control easy around here. I think from now on I'll take that route.

Have you guys reached out to Fuel-It yet? Looking at the Stock fuel bucket design, its very similar to the style that Fuel has modified for BMW scene for a while now. If they could add a parallel pump that is boost referenced ( Ie run stock pump under normal loads, then run the secondary walbro 450 under boost. We could then use the JB4 fuel controller module to trigger pump to run based on the boost profile and where FP has been dropping off in the logs. I would hope that solves the problem to at least 600whp.

 

[Tonkabob]

To be clear..no tuners have a fully defined DAMOS or A2L file yet. That is the problem. Its still early days, so complete table locations, functions, scalars and definitions are not available. A DAMOS file is basically a legend for the tables and functions in the ECU. With it, tuning is easy. Without, hard but not impossible. There is nothing particularly hard about the the stinger ECU, its just that right now its flying blind so its trial and error. Not knowing what you're looking for or at makes it hard. Otherwise It leverages the same strategies and logic every other modern torque demand based. Sooner or later, definitions files will get out and then anybody with supporting ECU flash systems will be able to produce the same results.

Exactly what i was trying to say.
A tuner that hasn't dug into this ecu is going to take a long time to get results. Unless they plan on selling their own tune they are not going to invest the time.
I don't know crap about ecu tunimg but have watched Tork for hours picking through it.

 

[Angel]

Exactly what i was trying to say.
A tuner that hasn't dug into this ecu is going to take a long time to get results. Unless they plan on selling their own tune they are not going to invest the time.
I don't know crap about ecu tunimg but have watched Tork for hours picking through it.

Exactly but you are making the assumption that they won’t invest the time to figure it out .....when you say that if they don’t work with Tork or lap 3 their going to reach a dead end that’s major BS .... let be real here Tonka I understand your position man ... your a good guy ... I understand you are local to Tork and that a lot of times you represent them and stick up for them ... I understand why you are probably getting discounted prices and there using your can to develop stuff ... I understand if you are getting free stuff and are local to then your not going to bite the hand that feeds you .... but come on be real Tork is not the only tuner and John is defenetely not this god tuner , he is the only one that can tune a stinger anybody trying to develop bigger turbos needs to work with John to have success .... let’s stop the nonsense ... Terry is a lot more successful than John and will continue to be you know why because he doesn’t have a bad reputation in the industry and before you defend Tork this is well documented on numerous forums .... Pure Turbos does not want to work with Tork due to his reputation and others shy away to work with Tork because of his bad reputation .... that why Terry is going to get the job done and figure it out ... I am not team Tork or team Terry .... I am team Stinger .... I am supporting what best for our cars .... and Terry is in the right path with these hybrid turbos and I guarantee you he will figure it out .... and eventually there is going to be 2 big players for bigger turbos ... lap 3 for those that want to go big and puente turbos for those that want a stick finish with hybrid. Turbos ....

 

[Terry@BMS]

To be clear..no tuners have a fully defined DAMOS or A2L file yet.

Tork does, they posted some translations of the tables, some with funny names like "unlucky cylinder correction". If they have it I'm sure it's for sale and every other flash tuner does too. I haven't bothered to look yet as it doesn't really apply to what we do.

Have you guys reached out to Fuel-It yet? Looking at the Stock fuel bucket design, its very similar to the style that Fuel has modified for BMW scene for a while now. If they could add a parallel pump that is boost referenced ( Ie run stock pump under normal loads, then run the secondary walbro 450 under boost. We could then use the JB4 fuel controller module to trigger pump to run based on the boost profile and where FP has been dropping off in the logs. I would hope that solves the problem to at least 600whp.

Fuel it works with BMS and we're looking in to fueling options for the platform.

 

[KLR STINGER]

Fuel it works with BMS and we're looking in to fueling options for the platform.

I know you do, hence why I mentioned it. I think a 2 stage pump upgrade either in or astride the stock bucket, paired with a trigger from your fuel controller would be the simplest first try.

 

[Terry@BMS]

I know you do, hence why I mentioned it. I think a 2 stage pump upgrade either in or astride the stock bucket, paired with a trigger from your fuel controller would be the simplest first try.

The first order of business is identifying what the limiting factor in the fuel system is. To do that we need to identify and data log the low fuel pressure, or or add a low pressure sensor and log it if needed.

 

[TwinSnails]

Exactly what i was trying to say.
A tuner that hasn't dug into this ecu is going to take a long time to get results. Unless they plan on selling their own tune they are not going to invest the time.
I don't know crap about ecu tunimg but have watched Tork for hours picking through it.

That’s not really true, a different tuner could crack it quicker by luck or by approach. And if that said tuner already a flash unit available... Tork might be passed. With that said he may still have the edge if he adopts that said companies method to load his tune.

 

[KLR STINGER]

The first order of business is identifying what the limiting factor in the fuel system is. To do that we need to identify and data log the low fuel pressure, or or add a low pressure sensor and log it if needed.

Always one step ahead. Standing by.

 

[brancky3]

That’s not really true, a different tuner could crack it quicker by luck or by approach. And if that said tuner already a flash unit available... Tork might be passed. With that said he may still have the edge if he adopts that said companies method to load his tune.

I'm sure there is mapping of the ECU to a large extent already. Aren't there companies that literally just crack ECUs and sell the mapping legends to places that want to sell tunes? We wouldn't know about this as consumers, but it's not an uncommon practice from what I hear

 

[Terry@BMS]

Always one step ahead. Standing by.

Remember a few weeks ago when we reminded Tork that true boost, load, and torque are stored across multiple modules, so it's a waste of time to flash their customers cars back to stock or sell them extra ECUs. Off the top of my head I listed several modules I know stores those values on the BMW platform. Among them the fuel pump control module.

John made a huge production that he knows for a fact based on his extensive work with the platform that there isn't a fuel control module. And the system is nothing at all like the BMW systems we're used to. He even challenged us in his signature to locate the module because we're idiots for suggesting it exists. Despite that fact that all other modern ECUs we work with use one.

I'm digging through the documentation working on fuel pump upgrades. And wouldn't you know it, they indicate a fuel pump control module after all. Turns out he's the idiot lol.

 

[Angel]

Remember a few weeks ago when we reminded Tork that true boost, load, and torque are stored across multiple modules, so it's a waste of time to flash their customers cars back to stock or sell them extra ECUs. Off the top of my head I listed several modules I know stores those values on the BMW platform. Among them the fuel pump control module.

John made a huge production that he knows for a fact based on his extensive work with the platform that there isn't a fuel control module. And the system is nothing at all like the BMW systems we're used to. He even challenged us in his signature to locate the module because we're idiots for suggesting it exists. Despite that fact that all other modern ECUs we work with use one.

I'm digging through the documentation working on fuel pump upgrades. And wouldn't you know it, they indicate a fuel pump control module after all. Turns out he's the idiot lol.

View attachment 18238

Does this mean he needs to change his signature ?? Lol hahahahaha ... let me keep it together

 

[KLR STINGER]

Remember a few weeks ago when we reminded Tork that true boost, load, and torque are stored across multiple modules, so it's a waste of time to flash their customers cars back to stock or sell them extra ECUs. Off the top of my head I listed several modules I know stores those values on the BMW platform. Among them the fuel pump control module.

John made a huge production that he knows for a fact based on his extensive work with the platform that there isn't a fuel control module. And the system is nothing at all like the BMW systems we're used to. He even challenged us in his signature to locate the module because we're idiots for suggesting it exists. Despite that fact that all other modern ECUs we work with use one.

I'm digging through the documentation working on fuel pump upgrades. And wouldn't you know it, they indicate a fuel pump control module after all. Turns out he's the idiot lol.

View attachment 18238

I was literally going to post this up right now only to see you have it already. Also thinking the exact same thing about the post saying there was no FPCM.

 

[KLR STINGER]

Terry, can you intercept the CAN signal and command higher LP FP DC with the JB4?

Here is the location and part number as well as cost of the mythical FPCM that doesn't exist:

33040J5000 - Kia Parts Now

Maybe a solution like this to allow for High current pumps without freaking the ECU out. PWM profile is adjustable, so should be able make it work with high draw pumps making ECU think all is well.

VAG PM4 High Power FPCM

 

[Terry@BMS]

Terry, can you intercept the CAN signal and command higher LP FP DC with the JB4?

Here is the location and part number as well as cost of the mythical FPCM that doesn't exist:

33040J5000 - Kia Parts Now

Maybe a solution like this to allow for High current pumps without freaking the ECU out. PWM profile is adjustable, so should be able make it work with high draw pumps making ECU think all is well.

VAG PM4 High Power FPCM

Yes we can but technically speaking I'm 99% sure it runs 100% duty at full throttle and 98% sure it measures pump current, like all other FPCM's do. But worry not this isn't our first rodeo. We've got ideas.

 

[Crewdawg130]

Deleted by request