Lets talk tuning, piggy back vs ECU flash.

[Angel]

Done! Good suggestion.
Its just there to irk Branky3 and Terry.

HAHAHAHA LOL I was joking man ......you still got the fastest awd or at least that i am aware off...or you in the 11's....I am trying to get to your territory....I hope i can hit 11's this summer...once i get the intercooler and run map 3 and possibly map 5....

 

[brancky3]

Done! Good suggestion.
Its just there to irk Branky3 and Terry.

Haha I don't get offended or bothered by anything on here I just think that the level of dislike and commentary from one company to the other is extremely negative for the community as a whole. At the end of the day, our cars are running LOW 12s on average which is crazy if you think about it. 5 years ago did you think you'd run low 12s with a tune? I personally don't really care if my car ever touches 11s, that's partly why I bought my Ducati Monster.

 

[Blitz]

I'm good with a 12.0. Seems like the sweet spot to me for what you can actually put down on a regular street without going ham on tires/traction stuff.

 

[Angel]

Haha I don't get offended or bothered by anything on here I just think that the level of dislike and commentary from one company to the other is extremely negative for the community as a whole. At the end of the day, our cars are running LOW 12s on average which is crazy if you think about it. 5 years ago did you think you'd run low 12s with a tune? I personally don't really care if my car ever touches 11s, that's partly why I bought my Ducati Monster.

Sir beautiful comment and I agree 100% I as well have my Lexus IS 300 which is on the high 10's right now, but i still would like to reach 11's if possible with bolt-ons.. Let me add the whip cream to your comment....#MURICAAAA!!!!!

 

[Angel]

I'm good with a 12.0. Seems like the sweet spot to me for what you can actually put down on a regular street without going ham on tires/traction stuff.

Unlike you sir I don't disagree with everything that comes out of your mouth...LOL..#MERICA#

 

[Blitz]

Sir beautiful comment and I agree 100% I as well have my Lexus IS 300 which is on the high 10's right now, but i still would like to reach 11's if possible with bolt-ons.. Let me add the whip cream to your comment....#MURICAAAA!!!!!
View attachment 16336

On a forum dedicated to a Korean branded car developed by a German. Quoting a post about an Italian motorcycle manufacturer. Referencing his Japanese car.

America.

I hate you so much I think I'm starting to like you.

 

[Angel]

On a forum dedicated to a Korean branded car developed by a German. Quoting a post about an Italian motorcycle manufacturer. Referencing his Japanese car.

America.

I hate you so much I think I'm starting to like you.

I will take as a compliment LOL....FYI you forgot to take the A of America.....

 

[StungBlueGT2]

You cant say the JB4 hold the highest trap speed. You can say the highest JB4 with meth has a 119 trap speed though. Thats why we list the mods. Pull everything and leave just the JB4 then you can say it. I am not saying meth is cheating I think its all fair game. "You run what you brung" always holds true. But Jb4 and wmi cost about $1300.00.

I can get a Uncle Chip and a 250 shot hooked up and smoke all of these records would we say the Uncle Chip is the best?

I get your point and agree all mods should be included when quoting “highest trap & quickest 1/4m”. But then why only declare meth for the JB4 Stinger record, but not say the Tork ecu Stinger with FBO for Torks 11.98 run?Tork & anyone running a turbo-back exhaust is conservatively gaining 40-50whp removing all 4 cats. WMI doesn’t add more power, adding more boost/timing does. So it’s not only the JB4 or Tork ecu making the record run it’s all the related mods that actually made it happen and should always be declared.

Also an equivalent JB4 without Bluetooth App like the Tork ecu is $459 & the WMI kit is only $339=$798. That means you can run both for the same cost as just a Tork ecu by itself.

Lastly, please stop making comparisons between WMI and NOS... They are not the same! NOS kits are actually measured in added HP, while WMI simply prevents engine knock which allows for more power to be made. Even though WMI has other advantages(cooling, cleaning, etc) it’s still just a glorified version of octane booster. It’s not a true power adding upgrade like NOS or bolt on mods.

So unfortunately your UncleChip & NOS example makes no sense and is misleading.

I haven't seen a bone stock JB4 OR a bone stock Tork tune post a time. I would argue Terry's time had less mods if you're splitting hairs here... JB4, intake, and WMI. Tork had a tune, intake, FMIC, primary downpipes, secondary downpipes, and muffler deletes.

Terry ran a 12.4@116 on a bone stock Stinger and dropped to 12.3@117 with just intakes. And agree, all Terry’s 1/4m times have significantly less mods but still achieves record times. If you compare mod for mod the JB4 definitely seems to have the advantage. Terry’s Stinger with FBOs like Torks would make another 40-50whp and easily run mid-high 11s.

I’m sure once Tork get WMI on his he will be running the same mid 11s too.

Torks other car is running 11.95 with just intake, fmic and catback with mufflers. Not too many mods and on a 92 octane tune.

True but you left out the most important part...AWD! Your 11.95 run was with 1.8 60ft but Terry’s 12.0 was with a 2.0 60ft. To be fair, we all know if Terry ran a 1.8 60ft he’d easily be running 11.8s

 

[Tonkabob]

I get your point and agree all mods should be included when quoting “highest trap & quickest 1/4m”. But then why only declare meth for the JB4 Stinger record, but not say the Tork ecu Stinger with FBO for Torks 11.98 run?Tork & anyone running a turbo-back exhaust is conservatively gaining 40-50whp removing all 4 cats. WMI doesn’t add more power, adding more boost/timing does. So it’s not only the JB4 or Tork ecu making the record run it’s all the related mods that actually made it happen and should always be declared.

Also an equivalent JB4 without Bluetooth App like the Tork ecu is $459 & the WMI kit is only $339=$798. That means you can run both for the same cost as just a Tork ecu by itself.

Lastly, please stop making comparisons between WMI and NOS... They are not the same! NOS kits are actually measured in added HP, while WMI simply prevents engine knock which allows for more power to be made. Even though WMI has other advantages(cooling, cleaning, etc) it’s still just a glorified version of octane booster. It’s not a true power adding upgrade like NOS or bolt on mods.

So unfortunately your UncleChip & NOS example makes no sense and is misleading.
Terry ran a 12.4@116 on a bone stock Stinger and dropped to 12.3@117 with just intakes. And agree, all Terry’s 1/4m times have significantly less mods but still achieves record times. If you compare mod for mod the JB4 definitely seems to have the advantage. Terry’s Stinger with FBOs like Torks would make another 40-50whp and easily run mid-high 11s.

I’m sure once Tork get WMI on his he will be running the same mid 11s too.
True but you left out the most important part...AWD! Your 11.95 run was with 1.8 60ft but Terry’s 12.0 was with a 2.0 60ft. To be fair, we all know if Terry ran a 1.8 60ft he’d easily be running 11.8s

Comparimg mods seems like hair splitting, they all add power in different ways. No one else has WMI so hard to compare tune vs tune. There are a couple jb4 awd cars with full bolt ons and they are still .15 behind torks 5 month old tune and .35+ (est.) Behind his current tune and .18 behind my tork tune. Wmi is very effective is all we get out of Terrys car until someone else runs it. But it is a cheap way to get 12.1
For Terrys you also need to add the $1500 -2000 for wheels and tires. So mod price wise they are pretty close.

The better comparison is my tork tune vs the 3 AWDs with the same mods as me plus both dps. (One jb4 and 2 lap3) one running 12.07 (lap3) and two running 12.13. They shouldn't be .18 slower they should be .18 or more faster if the tune was equal. And full mods jb4 with dps is $900 more than my setup. $1300 more if you count that sweet JT intercooler i sold klr.

 

[brancky3]

Comparimg mods seems like hair splitting, they all add power in different ways. No one else has WMI so hard to compare tune vs tune. There are a couple jb4 awd cars with full bolt ons and they are still .15 behind torks 5 month old tune and .35+ (est.) Behind his current tune and .18 behind my tork tune. Wmi is very effective is all we get out of Terrys car until someone else runs it. But it is a cheap way to get 12.1
For Terrys you also need to add the $1500 -2000 for wheels and tires. So mod price wise they are pretty close.

I truly don't think WMI is going to be that much more effective than a FMIC honestly.

 

[Tonkabob]

I truly don't think WMI is going to be that much more effective than a FMIC honestly.

Probabaly about the same as a really good intercooler and 100 octane. If you can run another psi or 2 of boost and another degree or 2 of timmimg thats some power. 40-50 hp?

 

[brancky3]

Probabaly about the same as a really good intercooler and 100 octane. If you can run another psi or 2 of boost and another degree or 2 of timmimg thats some power. 40-50 hp?

WMI does not translate to straight octane. WMI lowers the power / energy for a given octane because the water reduces the energy of the fuel. Straight 100 octane without WMI will be more powerful than WMI raising <91 octane> to 100 octane for this reason. It does, however, make the car less prone to detonation which allows boost and timing to go up as you say (but, so does a FMIC)

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Also an equivalent JB4 without Bluetooth App like the Tork ecu is $459 & the WMI kit is only $339=$798. That means you can run both for the same cost as just a Tork ecu by itself.

Terry ran a 12.4@116 on a bone stock Stinger and dropped to 12.3@117 with just intakes. And agree, all Terry’s 1/4m times have significantly less mods but still achieves record times. If you compare mod for mod the JB4 definitely seems to have the advantage. Terry’s Stinger with FBOs like Torks would make another 40-50whp and easily run mid-high 11s.

How do you run the WMI without the rest of the JB4 add ons? FSB add on? Full Wire Add on? Bluetooth connect add on? You should show the community how that's possible so they can save the over $400.00 you are missing. The Kit Terry shows that you should buy is almost $600.00 and the JB4 that every needs to run optimally is $600.00 so please show us the way this can be ran to save everyone $400.00++++ who considers this option.

Mod for Mod? What about the extra $2K Terry has in tires and DR's?

This is going in the wrong direction. Like I said you run what you brung all too many times would apply, but WMI is an OCTANE BOOSTER. Zero Questions about that right? So do you or do you not run Faster with Higher Octane? If its directly related to HP or not is not the question. Again if I run a Race Chip with VP-110 racing fuel with the Uncle Chip and run a mid 11 time would we say its better?

 

[brancky3]

How do you run the WMI without the rest of the JB4 add ons? FSB add on? Full Wire Add on? Bluetooth connect add on? You should show the community how that's possible so they can save the over $400.00 you are missing. The Kit Terry shows that you should buy is almost $600.00 and the JB4 that every needs to run optimally is $600.00 so please show us the way this can be ran to save everyone $400.00++++ who considers this option.

The FSB is included in the $339 kit. From there you only need the $30 tank and $40 nozzle. You could get away with a USB cable for $35 to connect your phone / laptop if you want to be cheap. All of the Tork times are with a FMIC anyway, which is what, $1k? Doing a cost comparison is pointless unless you also want to factor in how much people spent on their car to begin with at the dealership.

Like I said you run what you brung all too many times would apply, but WMI is an OCTANE BOOSTER. Zero Questions about that right? So do you or do you not run Faster with Higher Octane? If its directly related to HP or not is not the question. Again if I run a Race Chip with VP-110 racing fuel with the Uncle Chip and run a mid 11 time would we say its better?

I would say WMI's best benefit is reducing IATs. Sure it boosts octane, but you'd still see huge benefits running 100% water injection.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

The FSB is included in the $339 kit. From there you only need the $30 tank and $40 nozzle. You could get away with a USB cable for $35 to connect your phone / laptop if you want to be cheap. All of the Tork times are with a FMIC anyway, which is what, $1k? Doing a cost comparison is pointless unless you also want to factor in how much people spent on their car to begin with at the dealership.



I would say WMI's best benefit is reducing IATs. Sure it boosts octane, but you'd still see huge benefits running 100% water injection.

I don't get why people keep trying to put a value and then say lets not compare...

mod for mod lets break it down now:

Tork:
Tork Tune Stage 1- $895.00
Tork Intakes - $189.00
Tork Muffle Deletes - $295.00
Tork Straight pipes from the Turbos replacing primaries and secondary cats - ??? Not sure I was quoted $350 to do a full straight pipe from the turbos back which would include the price of the muffler deletes lets call it - $200
FMIC - $950.00
Total - $2,529.00

Burger:
JB4 - $449.00
Bluetooth kit - $140.00
Fuel Wires - $30.00
Burger Intakes ??? not sure lets go with the same price as torks but I have a feeling they will be closer to Injens -$189.00
WMI - $508.00 (based on the kit he put together in his thread)
Wheels - Around $2,000.00
Drag Radials Not sure if hes only running the 2 in the back or not so lets say $500 -$1000 if hes running all 4.
Total $3,816 - $4,316 (Deepening on how many DRs hes using)

How much further do you think the JB4 will be able to be pushed???? I think we just hit the tip of the iceberg with Tork…. Wouldn't be shocked to see low 11's by summer time on pump gas.

Now that the Mod for Mod break down that everyone thinks Tork has SOOO Much more invested is done. Lets talk about it...

 

[brancky3]

Wheels - Around $2,000.00

More like $1200, but that's not the point. This only matters for people trying to pinch pennies. What if Tork paid $38k for his car and Burger paid $35k for his? Do we factor this in too? Everyone is splitting hairs over prices and times recently when in reality there is no hard data that <x> is faster than <y> because there are too many variables. Until that happens everything is still strictly preference.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

More like $1200, but that's not the point. This only matters for people trying to pinch pennies. What if Tork paid $38k for his car and Burger paid $35k for his? Do we factor this in too? Everyone is splitting hairs over prices and times recently when in reality there is no hard data that <x> is faster than <y> because there are too many variables. Until that happens everything is still strictly preference.

I just don't like people putting a value to let everyone continue to assume Torks has much more invested than Terry does in mods when its the opposite way.

I will always say you run what you brung. Cant wait until summer time and we get tons of track times.

 

[Blitz]

More like $1200, but that's not the point. This only matters for people trying to pinch pennies. What if Tork paid $38k for his car and Burger paid $35k for his? Do we factor this in too? Everyone is splitting hairs over prices and times recently when in reality there is no hard data that <x> is faster than <y> because there are too many variables. Until that happens everything is still strictly preference.

I mean there is hard data right? Tork has the fastest time not figuring in any of this hogwash. Anyone who is trying to pit a JB4 vs. Tork in a drag race has already lost and they are only going to lose harder as time passes. That's just the fact of the matter. Tork has access to more options that allow them to run the car harder/faster. It's not debatable. If you want the fastest 1/4 mile time you can have you should be making friends with John.

The only debates are bang for your buck, removability, and customization. The JB4 likely wins dollar for dollar until you get to times it just can't hit. It's removable for those wanting the option to remove it or turn it completely off for dealer trips. It has logging and on the fly map changing for those wanting to tinker or test things. Really those are the only places JB4 can compete.

Not everyone wants a drag car. JB4 certainly has a place. I definitely think it can be more than "dipping your toe in the water", but I don't see it ever holding the "fastest stinger" title.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[brancky3]

I mean there is hard data right? Tork has the fastest time not figuring in any of this hogwash. Anyone who is trying to pit a JB4 vs. Tork in a drag race has already lost and they are only going to lose harder as time passes. That's just the fact of the matter. Tork has access to more options that allow them to run the car harder/faster. It's not debatable. If you want the fastest 1/4 mile time you can have you should be making friends with John.

The only debates are bang for your buck, removability, and customization. The JB4 likely wins dollar for dollar until you get to times it just can't hit. It's removable for those wanting the option to remove it or turn it completely off for dealer trips. It has logging and on the fly map changing for those wanting to tinker or test things. Really those are the only places JB4 can compete.

Not everyone wants a drag car. JB4 certainly has a place. I definitely think it can be more than "dipping your toe in the water", but I don't see it ever holding the "fastest stinger" title.

Just my 2 cents.

Yep, completely agree with you. Piggybacks can only go so far if there are limits inside the ECU. But that being said, the 'fastest time' right now is literally a couple HUNDREDTHS of a second faster which could be attributed to so many different variables (weather, humidity, altitude, etc). The time difference is completely irrelevant in the real world (that's like 0.0001 car length). If the difference is a couple tenths of a second in the future then absolutely it will be clear cut which is faster, but having the top spot for the sake of having the top spot is really just semantics at this point.

 

[Blitz]

Yep, completely agree with you. Piggybacks can only go so far if there are limits inside the ECU. But that being said, the 'fastest time' right now is literally a couple HUNDREDTHS of a second faster which could be attributed to so many different variables (weather, humidity, altitude, etc). The time difference is completely irrelevant in the real world (that's like 0.0001 car length). If the difference is a couple tenths of a second in the future then absolutely it will be clear cut which is faster, but having the top spot for the sake of having the top spot is really just semantics at this point.

I mean I can agree it's not a blowout, but Tork has had that spot for quite a while now on a real drag strip, and JB4 has been busting their ass to beat it with anything they can. Including wheels and tires. They have likely had quite a few runs trying, and their best on the best day is still under Tork 5 months ago. Can they beat it in the right conditions? Probably. Will Tork just come out with a new time that is unattainable for them in the forseeable future. Almost definitely.

This is coming from someone who installed a JB4 literally yesterday.

The real question now is:

Are the limiters JB4 is banging its head against there for a REALLY good reason? Will changing any of that cause failures when alot more people start running Tork? John beats the shit out of his car and that's a GOOD thing. Once they get a bigger base of users, things will HAVE to start failing if they keep getting faster.