Drag/Acceleration Weight of the worlds fastest Stinger....

[Terry@BMS]

Is it a boost additive map?
The ECU_PSI is 3~4psi higher in the second log?

It's map6 with boost added at every RPM = 0 so psi=ECU_PSI.

Just showcasing an example of boost being load based rather than target based. Like all other modern turbocharged applications.

 

[xot1]

ECU PSI is higher because the ECU thinks the air is hotter, meaning it's less dense. More boost pressure is required for the same mass of air compared to lower IATs.

Thank you!
Now this question might be stupid but why not just crank up the additive 2~3 psi ? Because it would lead to a too high peak boost?

 

[Terry@BMS]

We can do a lot of things on the tuning end. The discussion was about the factory ECU logic as it relates to load targeting rather than boost targeting. And a lot of false information being spread around by a specific tuner I wanted to clean up.

 

[Angel]

We can do a lot of things on the tuning end. The discussion was about the factory ECU logic as it relates to load targeting rather than boost targeting. And a lot of false information being spread around by a specific tuner I wanted to clean up.

So in theory you can do boost additive 100 and set the IAT value on Cyl 6 to 10 and run really fast? Is this correct? This is assuming you have an E30 fuel mix.

 

[xot1]

So in theory you can do boost additive 100 and set the IAT value on Cyl 6 to 10 and run really fast? Is this correct? This is assuming you have an E30 fuel mix.

Run fast to the junkyard

 

[Tonkabob]

We can do a lot of things on the tuning end. The discussion was about the factory ECU logic as it relates to load targeting rather than boost targeting. And a lot of false information being spread around by a specific tuner I wanted to clean up.

I think you have re proven we get different boost with different temps. Doesn't prove its purely load targeted. We still know its easier to over boost in cold temps and have seen the max boost and airflow maps.
I also shared torque tables based on various temps so the load target is not a constant.
I find the guy that spends many hundreds of hours in the ecu and dyno more credible with than a guy with a hammer and screw driver. Your main tool is boost spoofing so it makes sense you don't know or care about the many factors that impact boost since you can't change them.

 

[Terry@BMS]

ECU PSI is higher because the ECU thinks the air is hotter, meaning it's less dense. More boost pressure is required for the same mass of air compared to lower IATs.

Exactly. IAT is a large competent of the effective load target. In this case I spoofed the IAT really low. But if inlet temps were actually 40F I suspect performance at 10psi would be around the same as 14psi if inlets temps were actually 130F.. e.g. the system is probably well leveled from the factory for consistent performance across various weather.

 

[Terry@BMS]

I think you have re proven we get different boost with different temps. Doesn't prove its purely load targeted. We still know its easier to over boost in cold temps and have seen the max boost and airflow maps.
I also shared torque tables based on various temps so the load target is not a constant.
I find the guy that spends many hundreds of hours in the ecu and dyno more credible with than a guy with a hammer and screw driver. Your main tool is boost spoofing so it makes sense you don't know or care about the many factors that impact boost since you can't change them.

Just because someone is spending hundreds of hours doing something doesn't mean they are doing it right or understand why it's working. I'd argue it probably means they don't understand it and are still trying to figure it out. That Tork doesn't know yet how the boost and load modeling really operates in the real world is not unexpected though because between his 10 or so Stinger customers I doubt more than 1 ever provide any useful logs or feedback of his work.

I'm sure he will figure it out some day. In the meantime these threads will provide useful future entertainment for tuners who come in to the platform.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Just because someone is spending hundreds of hours doing something doesn't mean they are doing it right or understand why it's working. I'd argue it probably means they don't understand it and are still trying to figure it out. That Tork doesn't know yet how the boost and load modeling really operates in the real world is not unexpected though because between his 10 or so Stinger customers I doubt more than 1 ever provide any useful logs or feedback of his work.

I'm sure he will figure it out some day. In the meantime these threads will provide useful future entertainment for tuners who come in to the platform.

I always loved this quote from a Denzel Washington speech:

"Just because you're doing a lot more doesn't mean you're getting more done. Don't confuse movement with progress"

I think thats pretty applicable here.

 

[Tonkabob]

I always loved this quote from a Denzel Washington speech:

"Just because you're doing a lot more doesn't mean you're getting more done. Don't confuse movement with progress"

I think that's pretty applicable here.

Its true that time/ effort doesn't equate to outcomes but at least Tork is in the ECU and has a good understanding of how it works and learning more every week. Burger isn't in the ECU at all so only is able to do trial and error spoofing different inputs. This does work pretty well also but the assumptions on the piggy trial and error input tests isn't able to prove how the ECU is functioning. Based on all the maps already shown the load target is at minimum very over simplified and partially correct at best. Piggy backs seem to be as good as they will get but the ECU tune has more potential as the ECU is fully mapped. Tune on!

 

[Kinvara8017]

Just because someone is spending hundreds of hours doing something doesn't mean they are doing it right or understand why it's working. I'd argue it probably means they don't understand it and are still trying to figure it out. That Tork doesn't know yet how the boost and load modeling really operates in the real world is not unexpected though because between his 10 or so Stinger customers I doubt more than 1 ever provide any useful logs or feedback of his work.

I'm sure he will figure it out some day. In the meantime these threads will provide useful future entertainment for tuners who come in to the platform.

I'm pming you

 

[Terry@BMS]

My PM system is disabled, so email us!

 

[Helo58]

I always loved this quote from a Denzel Washington speech:

"Just because you're doing a lot more doesn't mean you're getting more done. Don't confuse movement with progress"

I think thats pretty applicable here.

Variation on a theme that I heard was, "Don't confuse activity with achievement." To be fair, Tork at whatever pace he is going is still ahead of all others on the ECU tuning front and appears to be moving in the right direction. For that reason, I still hope for his success. Will that be enough to persuade folks away from a simple product, with more than decent power gains, and great customer service like the JB4? Probably not until some significant power gains over the piggyback are made and even then you will still have those content with the gains and simplicity of the JB4.

 

[Tonkabob]

Variation on a theme that I heard was, "Don't confuse activity with achievement." To be fair, Tork at whatever pace he is going is still ahead of all others on the ECU tuning front and appears to be moving in the right direction. For that reason, I still hope for his success. Will that be enough to persuade folks away from a simple product, with more than decent power gains, and great customer service like the JB4? Probably not until some significant power gains over the piggyback are made and even then you will still have those content with the gains and simplicity of the JB4.

They are both good options for different people and different reasons. My stage 2 beta ECU tune is from January. He has figured out hundreds more maps since then. I'm sure we will see some times dropping very soon.

 

[Angel]

Its true that time/ effort doesn't equate to outcomes but at least Tork is in the ECU and has a good understanding of how it works and learning more every week. Burger isn't in the ECU at all so only is able to do trial and error spoofing different inputs. This does work pretty well also but the assumptions on the piggy trial and error input tests isn't able to prove how the ECU is functioning. Based on all the maps already shown the load target is at minimum very over simplified and partially correct at best. Piggy backs seem to be as good as they will get but the ECU tune has more potential as the ECU is fully mapped. Tune on!

By the time this ecu is fully mapped I will own a Supra or GTR.........or a different sports car.

 

[Tonkabob]

By the time this ecu is fully mapped I will own a Supra or GTR.........or a different sports car.

I'll take that bet...
(Not including odb flash)

 

[brancky3]

Will that be enough to persuade folks away from a simple product, with more than decent power gains, and great customer service like the JB4? Probably not until some significant power gains over the piggyback are made and even then you will still have those content with the gains and simplicity of the JB4.

Exactly. IMO the ECU tunes right now aren't providing any sort of tangible advantage over any of the piggyback cars. Sure, Tonka's car is 0.1 seconds faster down the track than a (more or less) comparable car (Kinvara's), but there's no way you'd notice that difference while driving. If we start seeing 120+mph traps consistently from an ECU tune on the same setups then it would be worth it.

There's a [reputable] company local to me starting off with ECU tunes on this platform... I might see if I can volunteer as tribute

 

[Tonkabob]

Exactly. IMO the ECU tunes right now aren't providing any sort of tangible advantage over any of the piggyback cars. Sure, Tonka's car is 0.1 seconds faster down the track than a (more or less) comparable car (Kinvara's), but there's no way you'd notice that difference while driving. If we start seeing 120+mph traps consistently from an ECU tune on the same setups then it would be worth it.

There's a [reputable] company local to me starting off with ECU tunes on this platform... I might see if I can volunteer as tribute

It is great having a reputable tuner near by.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

It is great having a tuner near by.

Ya I agree. You have it made Tonka. Just dont upset John and you will be A-OK.

Im still hoping you throw meth on the car already. I know I told John I would give him some m money up front to start working on a upgraded stock position turbo. You should try to continue that.

 

[Terry@BMS]

With the BMS WMI adpater meth is painless to install and remove too.

Kia Stinger / Hyundai G70 Plug and Play Water Injection Nozzle Adapter