3.3TT Wagner Tuning intercooler

[STINGER]

The G70 bumper rail is made of alluminium and is 7kg lighter than the Stinger one (steel).
The G70 transmission cooler is 40% larger than the Stinger one (7 lines vs 5 lines)
Both are compatible so some people swap them.

7kg is a a significant saving.

Any part numbers and pics you can share? better make another post.

 

[xot1]

7kg is a a significant saving.

Any part numbers and pics you can share? better make another post.

Part numbers I will have to ask around. Pics I have.

cooler


bumper rail

 

[STINGER]

Part numbers I will have to ask around. Pics I have.

cooler
View attachment 25547

bumper rail
View attachment 25548
View attachment 25549

Awesome, i have seen some stingers in the US with 7 rows, mine has 5 for some reason even though i am in the middle east were its really hot.

Any additional pic you have please share.

Also the bumper support is it a straight swap? No modifications necessary?

 

[robz32]

@xot1 You are correct on the oil cooler being bigger. However that only applies for the Korean and maybe the European spec Stinger's. Not sure on the Australian spec's.

The G70 oil cooler upgrade is a very popular upgrade in Korea but the US and Canadian specs already come equipped from the factory with the bigger cooler.

Now the front crash bar is metal on all Stinger specs and switching to the G70 aluminium one will be a nice upgrade for those looking to shave a few pounds from the front.

 

[NYdito]

For those that wanted to know if velassa tech fits. I just got confirmation from Wagner they don’t fit with the intercooler. I’m sure it’s still a good intercooler I had it on my Optima in the pass. Just wanted to share.

 

[Angel]

For those that wanted to know if velassa tech fits. I just got confirmation from Wagner they don’t fit with the intercooler. I’m sure it’s still a good intercooler I had it on my Optima in the pass. Just wanted to share.

Thanks for that info. I highly suspected it would not hence the reason why I didn’t go with it and being expensive. I am sure it is a great intercooler but for myself it does not make financial sense especially considering there are many options that are cheaper.

 

[STINGER]

@xot1 You are correct on the oil cooler being bigger. However that only applies for the Korean and maybe the European spec Stinger's. Not sure on the Australian spec's.

The G70 oil cooler upgrade is a very popular upgrade in Korea but the US and Canadian specs already come equipped from the factory with the bigger cooler.

Now the front crash bar is metal on all Stinger specs and switching to the G70 aluminium one will be a nice upgrade for those looking to shave a few pounds from the front.

Agree, I am definitely interested provided the price is within reason. Just need that part number.

 

[Secondchance]

I noticed cooler IAT with the Velossa's at normal speeds, the faster the better they perform. Wagner knows this otherwise they wouldn't have designed ducts to begin with and omit them due to costs and not that they didn't perform.

The performance of snorkels on the factory system, using the factory intercooler, is irrelevant. The wagner's capacity to cool the charge air is significantly better than the factory intercooler, making the marginally higher IAT's a non factor as the intercooler will cool the air much more effectively. If you truly feel the need, log data on pre/post intercooler temps on your factory with snorkels, then pre/post temps on the wagner without. Until you've done so, the temperature drop of an otherwise irrelevant modification is... well.. irrelevant.

As for your assumptions on the ducts being included in the initial "design" have you seen the "original" design of the stinger? As a product is developed and the design is finalized its common place for the components and quality to change. Imagine that socially accepted fact being also true with a company like Wagner ?!

The ONLY GRIPE anyone can have is that the image used was inaccurate. As if that has never happened before..

 

[STINGER]

The performance of snorkels on the factory system, using the factory intercooler, is irrelevant. The wagner's capacity to cool the charge air is significantly better than the factory intercooler, making the marginally higher IAT's a non factor as the intercooler will cool the air much more effectively. If you truly feel the need, log data on pre/post intercooler temps on your factory with snorkels, then pre/post temps on the wagner without. Until you've done so, the temperature drop of an otherwise irrelevant modification is... well.. irrelevant.

As for your assumptions on the ducts being included in the initial "design" have you seen the "original" design of the stinger? As a product is developed and the design is finalized its common place for the components and quality to change. Imagine that socially accepted fact being also true with a company like Wagner ?!

The ONLY GRIPE anyone can have is that the image used was inaccurate. As if that has never happened before..

Irrelevant?! So you are saying air entering an intercooler (stock or otherwise) at different temps is irrelevant? The ducts made a significant reduction, we are talking 10F or more cooler, and we are measuring the air temp at the intake manifold not before the intercooler. So we are seeing true reduction in temps. Nobody said the ducts will cool better than an aftermarket intercooler, but having both is obviously better. The ducts will improve on your intercooler setup, it will help cool quicker and maintain the lower temps longer, it will make your existing intercooler setup (stock or aftermarket) better.

It has been repeated several times, from the first announcement to the last, wagner always showed the ducts as part of the package, and it is a very well design duct and they obviously spent a lot of time designing it. but they are aware that adding carbon fiber ducts (probably cost at least $500) to an already expensive intercooler will be a difficult sale (which is true, very few will pay that much) especially to kia owners who they probably perceive as more price conscious people, which is why they dropped it from the package, not because it wont make a difference. This has been confirmed by K8stingerstore as well, that the main reason for dropping the ducts was the price.

I guarantee you they will add the ducts down the line once they get the right materials and logistics to have it at a sellable price.

 

[Secondchance]

That's exactly what I am saying. This intercooler will yield the same exit temperature with or without the snorkels. 10F specifically prior to the intercooler of this size, on the stock turbo setup will make no difference on the temp of the air leaving the intercooler. If you're not able to understand the Stark change in efficient cooling capacities between the two.. then I suspect you're not aware what the intetcooler does, or how, if the first place.

 

[robz32]

@STINGER take a look on the thread below.
In short the snorkels DO have an impact on how much lower the intercooler can bring down the air temps before entering the combustion chamber. Obviously not lower than ambient temp.

Intake Comparison

Paging @Manaz

 

[STINGER]

That's exactly what I am saying. This intercooler will yield the same exit temperature with or without the snorkels. 10F specifically prior to the intercooler of this size, on the stock turbo setup will make no difference on the temp of the air leaving the intercooler. If you're not able to understand the Stark change in efficient cooling capacities between the two.. then I suspect you're not aware what the intetcooler does, or how, if the first place.

Ok will take your word for it. This intercooler is so good, that even stock turbos that are producing a lot of heat because they are out of their efficiency range with most of us will not benefit from cooler pre intercooler air, ok got it.

FYI, 10F or more drop at the intake manifold on the stock intercooler, so the temp reduction pre oem intercooler is probably 20F+, but what does it matter, just put the wagner and direct the ducts to draw air from the exhaust manifold and we are good to go, the wagner cooler will take care of it.

 

[Secondchance]

Ok will take your word for it. This intercooler is so good, that even stock turbos that are producing a lot of heat because they are out of their efficiency range with most of us will not benefit from cooler pre intercooler air, ok got it.

FYI, 10F or more drop at the intake manifold on the stock intercooler, so the temp reduction pre oem intercooler is probably 20F+, but what does it matter, just put the wagner and direct the ducts to draw air from the exhaust manifold and we are good to go, the wagner cooler will take care of it.

A turbo will only effect the air going into it by roughly 10%, the equation to calculate it is on the forums in the intake thread.

heres an example of how well the Wagner intercooler cools compared to a good stock intercooler. As youll see, the IAT post turbo drops 12-20*C throughout the test, and the Wagner brings turbo intake temps upwards of 120*C back down to 1-2*C over ambient (20*C) . 12*F = 22*F. So even at the lowest beneficial level over the stock intercooler, it still cools well past the assumed amount the snorkels provide you on the stock IC

More over, the graph shows that a 50*C spike in intercooler inlet temps only caused 1-2*C change is the outlet temps from the Wagner IC. (it jumped over 8*C on the stock intercooler) So its more than safe to assume that the 10*F IAT you saw from the snorkels = irrelevant considering a 90*F jump in pre intercooler IAT temps = 1-2*C higher outlets temps.

 

[DaJackson]

The performance of snorkels on the factory system, using the factory intercooler, is irrelevant. The wagner's capacity to cool the charge air is significantly better than the factory intercooler, making the marginally higher IAT's a non factor as the intercooler will cool the air much more effectively. If you truly feel the need, log data on pre/post intercooler temps on your factory with snorkels, then pre/post temps on the wagner without. Until you've done so, the temperature drop of an otherwise irrelevant modification is... well.. irrelevant.

As for your assumptions on the ducts being included in the initial "design" have you seen the "original" design of the stinger? As a product is developed and the design is finalized its common place for the components and quality to change. Imagine that socially accepted fact being also true with a company like Wagner ?!

The ONLY GRIPE anyone can have is that the image used was inaccurate. As if that has never happened before..

Your making an assumption that it’s Wagner or Stock. There are a number of other options that let you do both an improved IC and snorkels.



Also comparing the concept design of the Stinger to the first image of the Wagner IC is a huge stretch.

 

[Secondchance]

Your making an assumption that it’s Wagner or Stock. There are a number of other options that let you do both an improved IC and snorkels.



Also comparing the concept design of the Stinger to the first image of the Wagner IC is a huge stretch.

Thats not an assumption, as hes directly comparing the 2, as well as using IAT's from his stock IC + snorkels ( and the mild iat drop ) as a cause for concern given the wagner doesn't have the ducts\snorkels

 

[STINGER]

Thats not an assumption, as hes directly comparing the 2, as well as using IAT's from his stock IC + snorkels ( and the mild iat drop ) as a cause for concern given the wagner doesn't have the ducts\snorkels

What concern are you talking about? The comparison of the ducts on the stock intercooler is to show that they work, and that a 10F drop at the intake manifold on the stock intercooler is likely a drop of 20F or more pre intercooler, again just to prove the ducts are useful. All we are saying are the ducts are beneficial period, irrespective of what intercooler you are using, NOT that the wagner is bad or useless.

 

[Secondchance]

What concern are you talking about? The comparison of the ducts on the stock intercooler is to show that they work, and that a 10F drop at the intake manifold on the stock intercooler is likely a drop of 20F or more pre intercooler, again just to prove the ducts are useful. All we are saying are the ducts are beneficial period, irrespective of what intercooler you are using, NOT that the wagner is bad or useless.

That is not what you were saying, its simply what you're saying now. You assumed and suggested that Wagner included them because of an obvious benefit, one you tried to substantiate with your own IAT drop of 10*F using the ducts/snorkels on the stock IC. You suggested that that data related to how they would work in conjunction with the aftermarket intercooler, then also suggested my pointing out that they are effectively rendered useless by the cool capacity of the Wagner IC wasn't plausible. The data I provided, shows that you're wrong, and that the Intercooler does exactly what I suggested it would do. Unless of course your ducts are some amazing invention that somehow lowers the temp of the air passing through it lower than ambient temperature ( it doesn't lol ), something made obvious on the graph by the fact that the exit temps were only slightly higher than ambient inside of a 90*F temp variance in inlet temps

 

[STINGER]

That is not what you were saying, its simply what you're saying now. You assumed and suggested that Wagner included them because of an obvious benefit, one you tried to substantiate with your own IAT drop of 10*F using the ducts/snorkels on the stock IC. You suggested that that data related to how they would work in conjunction with the aftermarket intercooler, then also suggested my pointing out that they are effectively rendered useless by the cool capacity of the Wagner IC wasn't plausible. The data I provided, shows that you're wrong, and that the Intercooler does exactly what I suggested it would do. Unless of course your ducts are some amazing invention that somehow lowers the temp of the air passing through it lower than ambient temperature ( it doesn't lol ), something made obvious on the graph by the fact that the exit temps were only slightly higher than ambient inside of a 90*F temp variance in inlet temps

What you are saying is incorrect, my comparison was to prove that the ducts will improve any setup and i have pointed this specifically in all my posts, but Fine fine, we will direct the exhaust to the intercooler because the intake temp will make no difference with this intercooler.

So wagner knowing the efficiency of there VW intercooler you posted still wasted there time designing and prototyped an intake duct for nothing. Will see how this goes when wagner starts selling the ducts later because it has no benefit.

 

[Secondchance]

What you are saying is incorrect, my comparison was to prove that the ducts will improve any setup and i have pointed this specifically in all my posts, but Fine fine, we will direct the exhaust to the intercooler because the intake temp will make no difference with this intercooler.

So wagner knowing the efficiency of there VW intercooler you posted still wasted there time designing and prototyped an intake duct for nothing. Will see how this goes when wagner starts selling the ducts later because it has no benefit.

Thats one of their graphs, not the only one. They build intercoolers for multiple vehicles. But make another assumption on processes you don't understand because the brand isn't KIA on the otherwise scientific and related data

Again, designs go through various changes from the original design. You're making a assumption based on their decision to include a part initially and not later. If anything,based on the absence of the ducts, would suggest that testing the intercooler with and without the ducts showed no benefit to the ducts, or one that was so nominal that including them (and their costs both in production and sale) was pointless. This assumption is further proven more likely after you combine your IAT variations, and the data shown on the Wagner intercooler graph I supplied. That being of course that the intercoolers exit IAT varied less than 2*C at anytime in the test, regardless of the 90*F + inlet temp changes. Not only that, but be cause the ducts aren't able to cool ambient temps, the air they would supply would not make a difference on IC outlet temps on the intercooler, as they come no where near 90*F+ in benefit to the inlet temp, but also because the intercoolers outlet temp was = to or only slightly higher than the ambient temp in the test. understand that the intercooler effectively lowered the 120*C IC inlet temps back down to the temperature of the air as it enters the ducts


Mod Edit: If this post doesn’t make sense it’s because a mod had to clean up OPs language to make it civilized.

 

[STINGER]

Thats one of their graphs, not the only one. They build intercoolers for multiple vehicles. But make another assumption on processes you don't understand because the brand isn't KIA on the otherwise scientific and related data

Again, designs go through various changes from the original design. You're making a gross assumption based on their decision to include a part initially and not later. Do you realize how effing stupid that sounds? If anything,the more intelligent assumption, based on the absence of the ducts, would suggest that testing the intercooler with and without the ducts showed no benefit to the ducts, or one that was so nominal that including them (and their costs both in production and sale) was pointless. This more intelligent assumption is further proven more likely after you combine your IAT variations, and the data shown on the Wagner intercooler graph I supplied. That being of course that the intercoolers exit IAT varied less than 2*C at anytime in the test, regardless of the 90*F + inlet temp changes. Not only that, but be cause the ducts aren't able to cool ambient temps, the air they would supply would not make a difference on IC outlet temps on the intercooler, as they come no where near 90*F+ in benefit to the inlet temp, but also because the intercoolers outlet temp was = to or only slightly higher than the ambient temp in the test. If you know what ambient temperature is, then you'll understand that the intercooler effectively lowered the 120*C IC inlet temps back down to the temperature of the air as it enters the ducts you're so hell bent on needing.

I am not making an assumption, it has been confirmed in this thread by K8stingerstore that they did not decide to sell the ducts because of the high sale price because they are carbon fiber and not because they are not beneficial.

So with the ducts the wagner intercooler will not have closer temps to ambient? Ok great.