The Stinger Fuel Thread

[Sensibly Spirited Driver]

Arco is TOP TIER gasoline! I thought all ARCOs that I'm aware of advertise as TOP TIER.

Every major chain in America is "toptier". All "toptier" means is that they put detergents in the gas to help remove the sludge/residue that ethanol (corn) creates in your engine. It sounds a lot better than "Ethanol residue remover". It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the gas, it's just a marketing jargon for adding detergents. The gas at any busy Arco should be okay. You are, however, more likely to get gas with deposits in it, and the quality of the gas matters more for engines that run on premium.

Gas that doesn't have ethanol in it to begin with is ideal, as it doesn't need detergents to counteract the damage ethanol does (it's corrosive and wears down rubber/gaskets as well as creating residue/sludge in the engine). If you got ethanol free gas, it wouldn't be "toptier" because it wouldn't have detergents. However, you do raise a good point about the effectiveness of marketing jargon. The labelling of "premium" is another applicable example. A car deisgned specifically for 87 will get no benefit from 91+, it's just a waste of money, and yet many consumers think it's better for their car because of the name. For cars designed for 91+, that's different. The Stinger has a high tech engine that can run either, and using "premium" is more for a performance boost and better MPG.

 

[GTB]

Delete

 

[GTB]

He was joking.

93 octane + a sip of e85 makes about e15 e20. You’ll make more power... and you’ll feel it. I’ve ran it in my BMW. Most cars will adjust with success. Don’t push it though. Everyone is so scared to try things that have been around forever lol.

 

[andrew tay]

I accidentally put in 91 octane fuel in v6 stinger. To my surprise its now drinking 1 litre less per 100kms. Expect the other way around. Anyone else experience that?

 

[washguy]

If you got ethanol free gas, it wouldn't be "toptier" because it wouldn't have detergents. However, you do raise a good point about the effectiveness of marketing jargon

Say Whaaat? You can use the net and find ethanol free gas..which I did and the station is about one mile from me....found it two weeks ago...ive been using 93 with ethanol with 4 gals of e85 ....so when I started using the 93 without ethanol and btw their were tier one stickers on the pump...the car pulls harder without the use of 4 gals of corn....I still put 2 gals of corn in the tank on fill ups...im running a JB4 tune on map3 and the car is a beast....93 ethanol free is worth finding, and yes it does have detergents Wash

 

[eflyguy]

Every major chain in America is "toptier".

No, they are not. Most are, but not all. My closest high-volume brand in the metro Atlanta area is not on this list, and has lower prices than many others in my area.

TOP TIER™ Gasoline Brands

All "toptier" means is that they put detergents in the gas to help remove the sludge/residue that ethanol (corn) creates in your engine. It sounds a lot better than "Ethanol residue remover". It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the gas, it's just a marketing jargon for adding detergents.
...
If you got ethanol free gas, it wouldn't be "toptier" because it wouldn't have detergents.

The detergents added to top-tier gasoline have absolutely nothing to do with ethanol mixed into the fuel. Non-ethanol fuel sold by approved top-tier brands also have those same detergents. It was designed to help reduce deposits from combustion which are not influenced by whether there is ethanol mixed in with the fuel. They help keep both the combustion chamber and intake valves clean - although the latter fails for direct injection, which is why some manufacturers are also adding port injection to their direct injection engines, and why crank vent filtering is becoming more mainstream (aftermarket and the occasional manufacturer).

Gas that doesn't have ethanol in it to begin with is ideal, as it doesn't need detergents to counteract the damage ethanol does (it's corrosive and wears down rubber/gaskets as well as creating residue/sludge in the engine).

This is absolutely incorrect. Combustion deposits which detergents are designed to address are not related to whether or not there is ethanol in the fuel. The components in this vehicle are designed to work with fuel containing ethanol and are not damaged by it. It absolutely DOES cause issues in engines that were not designed for it, however - especially in smaller engines used in outdoor maintenance equipment.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

I accidentally put in 91 octane fuel in v6 stinger. To my surprise its now drinking 1 litre less per 100kms. Expect the other way around. Anyone else experience that?

No. I think I ran a couple gallons of 91 when I couldnt find 93 octane.

 

[Jimmer]

Doesn’t e20 have ethanol in it which Kia says not to put in tank?

Most gas at the pumps has ethanol. Hard to avoid. I've never read anything from KIA that you cant have ethanol.

 

[StungBlueGT2]

Most gas at the pumps has ethanol. Hard to avoid. I've never read anything from KIA that you cant have ethanol.

The manual does state not to use fuel with more that 15% ethanol. See attached.
https://stingerforum.org/kia-stinger-owner-manuals/2018-kia-stinger-owners-manual.pdf

 

[Jimmer]

The manual does state not to use fuel with more that 15% ethanol. See attached.
https://stingerforum.org/kia-stinger-owner-manuals/2018-kia-stinger-owners-manual.pdf

Right, but that doesn't exclude ethanol. Most stations use up to/no more than 10 ethanol%.

 

[Snatchell]

Here is a nice app for the Apple devices to find ethanol free gas...
‎Pure Gas
Very Very nice!

 

[Snatchell]

I'd be adding a bottle of Chevron Techron and possibly a bottle of Octane Booster if I was filling up with anything less than 91 octane from an "Unbranded" pump. Some, as you will see with the app, are 93 octane from Shell... Now that would be kick ass!

 

[Jimmer]

There are 126 stations in Utah that have pure gas available. A huge percentage only offer it in 88.

Only 20 stations in Utah offer 90 or higher in pure gas and none of them are close enough to my area to go to regularly.

 

[turboAWD]

Sure, Costco is always pumping, but that often means 15-20 minute waits. While there's a Chevron around the corner that's generally doing decent sales, gives me 20 c/gal discount through Safeway, accepts my Amex (5% cash back for gas, which is another $20c / gal at $4/gal in NorCal), AND has a "min E70" E85 pump.. Not that I wouldn't fill up at Costco (we shop there), but it's not the most convenient.

Plus, with my (now dead) LGT, 76 or Chevron had the best response. Costco and Valero would sometimes cause the car to hesitate a bit..

 

[Helo58]

... When margins become thin, or if people aren't buying enough Fritos, they have an incentive to dilute the gas with water to make more money. Costco doesn't have that problem, as their customers are buying Fritos in bulk. The damage to Costco's reputation for watering their gas would be huge.

Was sad to see this old dead post brought back to life. Judging by this post, it should have stayed dead.

 

[SteveCo]

I accidentally put in 91 octane fuel in v6 stinger. To my surprise its now drinking 1 litre less per 100kms. Expect the other way around. Anyone else experience that?

No. I think I ran a couple gallons of 91 when I couldnt find 93 octane.

91 RON in Australia is roughly equivalent to 87 AKI in North America - i.e. regular gas. I recall at least one other poster on here that said they did a comparison, and were surprised to see better mileage with regular vs. premium fuel.

 

[turboAWD]

91 RON in Australia is roughly equivalent to 87 AKI in North America - i.e. regular gas. I recall at least one other poster on here that said they did a comparison, and were surprised to see better mileage with regular vs. premium fuel.

Not surprising - regular fuel has more energy per unit, just less control, so less timing, so less absolute power available. However, if you don't need all 365 hp, you can probably get 300 hp using 5-10% less fuel with premium. You just can't get to 365 ever (assuming that number is realistic), but maybe 330-340. For some people, better mpg is important and for others, they'll pay for those last 25-30 hp..
(note: the actual values could be more or less, I'm just making up some numbers to illustrate the point)

 

[StungBlueGT2]

Not surprising - regular fuel has more energy per unit, just less control, so less timing, so less absolute power available. However, if you don't need all 365 hp, you can probably get 300 hp using 5-10% less fuel with premium. You just can't get to 365 ever (assuming that number is realistic), but maybe 330-340. For some people, better mpg is important and for others, they'll pay for those last 25-30 hp..
(note: the actual values could be more or less, I'm just making up some numbers to illustrate the point)

True, premium gas MAY have slightly less energy per unit due to added xylenes, but that effect has little to do with the performance & mpg results of our engine.

Higher octane fuel allows for more compression which means more power or torque is created by the air/fuel mixture in each stroke. The more power/torque made with each combustion the more efficient the engine is at making power overall. This means you need less gas to achieve the same acceleration.

So for example, you may only need 40% throttle to merge onto a highway on-ramp at 65mph with Premium fuel, but would have to give 50% throttle using less efficient lower octane fuel. The more throttle you use, the more fuel you will consume at any given time.

This is why AAA reported 8% & 15% MPG gains on two of the most similar engines to out 3.3TT in their comprehensive testing between Regular & Premium fuels. I and others have explained this in a few previous threads on the same subject. Here’s one if you’re interested in learning why Premium fuel will increase fuel economy in certain vehicles, especially high performance turbo engines like our Stingers.
Gas. 87, 91, 93 Octane?

 

[turboAWD]

First, I am not an expert - I've just heard a few tidbits here and there that I'm sure I'm mis-applying..

What about long-distance cruising at 55 mph - we're not always merging at WOT? Where the amount of power required is nowhere near the limit, and low load, so knocking isn't a concern?

I've also heard that pumping losses are a factor when the throttle isn't near WOT, so perhaps opening the throttle slightly wider doesn't necessarily lead to worse mpg?

 

[StungBlueGT2]

First, I am not an expert - I've just heard a few tidbits here and there that I'm sure I'm mis-applying..

What about long-distance cruising at 55 mph - we're not always merging at WOT? Where the amount of power required is nowhere near the limit, and low load, so knocking isn't a concern?

I've also heard that pumping losses are a factor when the throttle isn't near WOT, so perhaps opening the throttle slightly wider doesn't necessarily lead to worse mpg?

Not sure about cruising at 55mph, but the difference would probably be minimal or even insignificant between the two.

I usually don’t merge at WOT because I’d be in triple digits speeds before the end of most on-ramps. However the efficiency of the engine and power made at any load would still apply. So at low load maybe you would only need 20% throttle with Premium, but 30% on Regular to achieve the same amount of acceleration.

Im not sure about the difference pumping losses would make, but throttle has almost a direct relationship with RPM & the amount of fuel being requested. More throttle(pedal input) typical tells the ECU to increase fuel & air consumption to make more power.

So if the engine is more efficient at making power using Premium then that extra power would be available at any throttle input, not just WOT.