Suspension Performance and How to Improve it!

[Kia Stinger]

Thank you for all this great information, @Steve Ostrowski! I just updated the title of the thread.

 

[MarkyMark]

It was $324 CDN plus 3.5 hrs labour. Total $750 CDN. In the US the kit is $275 or so. The 3.5 hrs labour will still apply. NO BRAINER!

Thanks Steve! I imagine it effects the different driving models uniform-ally, yes?

 

[Steve Ostrowski]

Congratulations - that‘s how it should look like and that‘s exactly how I want my snow white Stinger look like too. Here in Germany you cannot buy the Eibach kit yet but it will be available in time when I will get my Stinger in March. I will go for that lowering springs too. I will also buy some aftermarket rims - maybe BBS or the TSW everyone knows from the orange SEMA car. Could you eventually take a closeup photo from the rear wheel? I would love to see how much space there is still left with the Eibach kit. Thank you very much!

Greetings
Andy

Zoom in on this shot Andy. If you need a real close up I can get that too. (When the sun comes up) LOL.

 

[Steve Ostrowski]

Thanks Steve! I imagine it effects the different driving models uniform-ally, yes?

You know, I never found the different driving modes had much of an impact on the suspension. And I'm a sensitive guy. The springs work great in all modes and make a huge improvement in all modes. Better ride over the tar strips and better body control over the g bumps. Better wheel contact in betweeen. See attached explanation of bumps 'nomenclature'.
Back in the day when I would tune shock valving for snowmobile, ATV, Bus and Motorcycle suspensions, I had a lab and shock dynos at my beck and call. You'd have to stiffen a shock about 30% before it made a noticeable difference to the average butt. Less so on a lighter vehicle, more so on a heavier one. So in my opinion, the shocks for comfort are dampened at X. Sport (in recoil mode only) should be about 2X (200%) stiffer. But my guess is they are maybe 30 or 50% stiffer. Geez, I hate to throw Albert Biermann under the bus, but like I said in another post, the Nurburgring didn't provide the road conditions to tune real world ride and handling. Only handling. Hence the Aussies were the first to say "NO WAY, we need the suspension tuned for Australia". My take, the suspension needed to be tuned for Australia and Canada and the USA, not the Nurburgring.

 

[corradoMR2]

It was $324 CDN plus 3.5 hrs labour. Total $750 CDN. In the US the kit is $275 or so. The 3.5 hrs labour will still apply. NO BRAINER!

Where did you get them for $324?

 

[Steve Ostrowski]

The Canadian distributor is Marcor Automotive in Burlington ON. I may be off by 10 or 20 bucks but the number is the Canadian retail. Now that I think of it I recall the Kia service guy saying he gave me 10% off because they couldn't do the alignment. Anyway, the alignment specs are not available for the service equipment yet but the car is not wandering or pulling. So I'm waiting for the spec to do the alignment which may not be available till March.

 

[RobertPaulson]

This Is from a car and driver review:

“Unfortunately, when the asphalt writhes and your right foot goes down hard, the Stinger does sometimes float like a butterfly—and not in a good way. We experienced several unnerving sideways twitches while traversing nasty heaves in the middle of fast corners that convinced us that firmer rear damper tuning was needed. Despite the car’s adjustable shocks and multiple driving modes, we couldn’t find a setting that endowed the Stinger’s chassis with the poise and feedback that cements the driver/car connection.”

Seems this is “normal” for the Stinger.

 

[MarkyMark]

This Is from a car and driver review:

“Unfortunately, when the asphalt writhes and your right foot goes down hard, the Stinger does sometimes float like a butterfly—and not in a good way. We experienced several unnerving sideways twitches while traversing nasty heaves in the middle of fast corners that convinced us that firmer rear damper tuning was needed. Despite the car’s adjustable shocks and multiple driving modes, we couldn’t find a setting that endowed the Stinger’s chassis with the poise and feedback that cements the driver/car connection.”

Seems this is “normal” for the Stinger.

In the rear-wheel-only version, I would agree the trait is there. However, the AWD option Stingers behave much better and does not experience the float or back-end behavior nearly as much as the RWD versions. @Steve Ostrowski (in this thread) took care of this quickly and easily.

I would note, I've watched and read just about every review on the Stinger. Additionally, I've test drove the 2.0L RWD and 3.3L AWD versions. I pushed them hard, and getting them to mis-behave I did not experience. Again, the GT was AWD and you – by engine mathematics – can get that car to move like the 2.0L cannot. I could not back the AWD GT back-end get out of control, lift, or show any bad manners.

Reviews, coupled with my own test driving experiences, I'm led to believe you would be hard-pressed to ever experience unless driving the car extremely hard, and even then it needs to be a RWD vehicle. If you are a track guy, then this probably isn't the car for you. That's not what Kia designed it for. It's overall softer than what track driving demands.

I would humbly suggest an BMW M4, as it seems it might fit your billing nicely, with the characteristics you desire, or an Audi S5 Sportback. Alas, the M4 w/3.0L V6 starts at $69,000 and the Audi S5 Sportback w/3.0L V6 starts at $55,000. If you have the money there you go.

However, if that's a bit pricey, but you want that power and performance in most areas, then the field quickly narrows and it can quickly reveal the Stinger is in a niche carefully crafted with a price/performance ratio that's not really out there.

Put another way, if this car arrived from BMW, or Mercedes, the automotive world would be saying it's incredible, and that the pricing is nuts too low and is going to kill their own higher-priced vehicle sales. It's a massive market disruptor, and the list goes on and on. Alas, it's from Kia, not exactly your bastion of performance or luxury renown folks. But maybe that's changing with all the German Audi and BMW managers they have onboard, resulting in the Stinger and hopefully products like it sooner than later.

 

[Charly]

Hmmm... I thought I had seen people with AWD complain about an ill-behaved rear end also.

Hey Sal @Kia Stinger, how about a poll asking who's had issues with the rear end and whether they've got RWD or AWD?

 

[Kia Stinger]

I agree with @MarkyMark. Kia isn't selling the Stinger as a track car. You can't have it both ways. If it's too firm, there won't be enough sold to make a second generation viable. BMW didn't start the 3-Series with the M3.

Hmmm... I thought I had seen people with AWD complain about an ill-behaved rear end also.

Hey Sal @Kia Stinger, how about a poll asking who's had issues with the rear end and whether they've got RWD or AWD?

This is a very good idea, @Charly - but it's come time that I need to start handing off responsibilities like starting polls - to all of you. I am needing to spend several hours per day working on the back end and that's not leaving me enough time to get everything done AND start topics. Please create the poll (you don't need to wait for me)...

 

[Steve Ostrowski]

My car is AWD and the back end was so bad I had to get the Eibach's to make it bearable. At speed the car is nice (140K) but under that the shocks (all 4 corners) are too soft. So I just go 140 all the time LOL. Anyway, I'm going to research the shocks to see if they can be fixed with a software patch. My 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S had adaptive shocks and they were super stiff or super soft mechanically, but electrically they alternated between stiff and soft settings at a frequency/duty cycle that made them just right most of the time. Full sport was full stiff and it was absolutely spectacular as long as you were going over 140k!!!

 

[Steve Ostrowski]

At speed the car is nice now that I have the Eibach's. It still needs stiffer damping to be sporting whilst a GT.

 

[Kia Stinger]

Hey Sal @Kia Stinger, how about a poll asking who's had issues with the rear end and whether they've got RWD or AWD?

This is a very good idea, @Charly - but it's come time that I need to start handing off responsibilities like starting polls - to all of you. I am needing to spend several hours per day working on the back end and that's not leaving me enough time to get everything done AND start topics. Please create the poll (you don't need to wait for me)...

I guess I'll go ahead and start that poll...
Have you had issues with your rear end?

 

[MarkyMark]

My car is AWD and the back end was so bad I had to get the Eibach's to make it bearable. At speed the car is nice (140K) but under that the shocks (all 4 corners) are too soft. So I just go 140 all the time LOL. Anyway, I'm going to research the shocks to see if they can be fixed with a software patch. My 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S had adaptive shocks and they were super stiff or super soft mechanically, but electrically they alternated between stiff and soft settings at a frequency/duty cycle that made them just right most of the time. Full sport was full stiff and it was absolutely spectacular as long as you were going over 140k!!!

As I recall in an earlier thread, you are out and about on some open roads in Canada, and push your car pretty hard, yes? You seem to be causing often at around 90mph or higher? Is it over rough terrain or curves that give you the most difficulties? It seems something may be wrong with your rig?... Perhaps not, but I know others have questioned if something isn't wrong with your suspension system, or may computer? Worth a look.

 

[upsidedown]

Hence the Aussies were the first to say "NO WAY, we need the suspension tuned for Australia"

Yes you would think that would have worked out well for the Aussie GT with adaptive suspension but it's too stiff in comfort mode and you feel all the dips and bumps at low speed. More than I would imagine is necessary if the suspension was tuned different. Also at 100 kmh I have had the back end skip out on choppy road surfaces so my opinion is that Aussie versions are too stiff and can't absorb the road surface correctly because we have some pretty crap roads. Other countries call there roads A or B surfaces but I'd call some of ours D. Whether the fix is by springs, dampers or both I don't know. What does amaze me is that even though it was Australian tuned that's what was released to market. I do believe that reviewers have said that the non adaptive suspension is better so maybe they at least got that right?

 

[voon]

I'd have to sit in one for comparison first. "Lower" is not of importance to me, I prefer to not crash my snout into every floor in a tight multilevelgarage with steep ramps. But what I need is comfort ... at 45 and a crappy office/IT shaped skeleton, I need road irregularities to not send little earthquakes into my spine and upper neck all the time. I.e. I'm no longer ready for rock hard sporty planks. But depending on quality, I guess you could have a more comfy, softer suspension over another, and still be sportier, cause it's just better engineered.

 

[Steve Ostrowski]

I'd have to sit in one for comparison first. "Lower" is not of importance to me, I prefer to not crash my snout into every floor in a tight multilevelgarage with steep ramps. But what I need is comfort ... at 45 and a crappy office/IT shaped skeleton, I need road irregularities to not send little earthquakes into my spine and upper neck all the time. I.e. I'm no longer ready for rock hard sporty planks. But depending on quality, I guess you could have a more comfy, softer suspension over another, and still be sportier, cause it's just better engineered.

Hi Voon. Don't sell the Eibach kit short. Yes it lowers the car 1.5", but that is not enough to cramp your driving style. Also, it is incorrect to assume the kit makes for a harder ride. In fact it does the opposite. Here's how: Say the stock springs have a stiffness of 5X over 5" of travel. The Eibach's are dual 'stiffness'. They are actually softer in the first inch of travel. For example only, the Eibach's have a stiffness of .7X for the first inch of travel and a stiffness of 1.5X for the remaining 4" of travel. Combined rate is (.7+1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5)X. The overall work the spring does over its travel is not 5X, like stock, but 6.7X or 34% stiffer. The best part is that the suspension is already moving with momentum in the first inch of travel so when it goes into the stiffer section of the spring there is no shock or feeling of stiffness. In all my Eibach Pro-Kit cars, 5 of them prior to the Stinger, the car's ride was improved, along with the handling. As a past OEM suspension product manager, I can't drive on stock suspensions anymore. They compromise way too much for worst case driver behaviour like speeding over speed bumps, climbing curbs, stuffing 5 adults with full luggage in the car, climbing curbs with 5 adults and luggage in the car.... LOL

 

[voon]

Sounds interesting. More comfort AND better handling? Hrm. Then again I have an "all options" Stinger, can't get anything other in Switzerland atm, just one version with everything in, so I'm not sure how new springs and the adaptive stuff (or whatever is in the Stinger) handles spring upgrades.

 

[Ecsta]

Hi Voon. Don't sell the Eibach kit short. Yes it lowers the car 1.5", but that is not enough to cramp your driving style. Also, it is incorrect to assume the kit makes for a harder ride. In fact it does the opposite. Here's how: Say the stock springs have a stiffness of 5X over 5" of travel. The Eibach's are dual 'stiffness'. They are actually softer in the first inch of travel. For example only, the Eibach's have a stiffness of .7X for the first inch of travel and a stiffness of 1.5X for the remaining 4" of travel. Combined rate is (.7+1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5)X. The overall work the spring does over its travel is not 5X, like stock, but 6.7X or 34% stiffer. The best part is that the suspension is already moving with momentum in the first inch of travel so when it goes into the stiffer section of the spring there is no shock or feeling of stiffness. In all my Eibach Pro-Kit cars, 5 of them prior to the Stinger, the car's ride was improved, along with the handling. As a past OEM suspension product manager, I can't drive on stock suspensions anymore. They compromise way too much for worst case driver behaviour like speeding over speed bumps, climbing curbs, stuffing 5 adults with full luggage in the car, climbing curbs with 5 adults and luggage in the car.... LOL

Always gotta design for the worst-customer in mind haha.

Saw you're in Toronto, where'd you buy? The KIA dealership i used to go to closed down.

 

[Kia Stinger]

Hi Voon. Don't sell the Eibach kit short. Yes it lowers the car 1.5", but that is not enough to cramp your driving style. Also, it is incorrect to assume the kit makes for a harder ride. In fact it does the opposite. Here's how: Say the stock springs have a stiffness of 5X over 5" of travel. The Eibach's are dual 'stiffness'. They are actually softer in the first inch of travel. For example only, the Eibach's have a stiffness of .7X for the first inch of travel and a stiffness of 1.5X for the remaining 4" of travel. Combined rate is (.7+1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5)X. The overall work the spring does over its travel is not 5X, like stock, but 6.7X or 34% stiffer. The best part is that the suspension is already moving with momentum in the first inch of travel so when it goes into the stiffer section of the spring there is no shock or feeling of stiffness. In all my Eibach Pro-Kit cars, 5 of them prior to the Stinger, the car's ride was improved, along with the handling. As a past OEM suspension product manager, I can't drive on stock suspensions anymore. They compromise way too much for worst case driver behaviour like speeding over speed bumps, climbing curbs, stuffing 5 adults with full luggage in the car, climbing curbs with 5 adults and luggage in the car.... LOL

That is very, very interesting! I learned something today. And that makes a lot of sense - where suspensions are designed for worst case scenarios... So it's possible, actually - likely - to get a better, softer ride with improved handling?