Stinger Deals and financing help

[AYip31]

Hi Thomas,
I'm too new to send a PM, sorry for the open forum post. I'm local to you in Carroll County and hoping you'd share with me the dealer you worked with and what kind of purchase you made and deal you got.

I've NEVER leased a vehicle, but these Stinger lease buyout conversations make me think I could be doing better than my normal good car purchases. I'm not planning to buy until late this year or early next year, but I'm a weirdo that can do research for months before a car purchase.

For the general group, can you answer this for me? When going with the lease buyout technique, can you remove ALL variables and know what your total cost will be when it's all said and done, or are you left signing the lease not knowing what your buyout and/or final costs are? I've bought a million cars, financed, cash, mix of both and I have gotten fantastic deals. The terminology in Leases is all different, most make no sense to me, and I can't go down an avenue that I don't fully understand. I'd rather just make a traditional purchase and understand all terms of the sale than sign anything I don't understand.

Thanks!

for a lease buyout to work, the lease rebate has to be big enough to made it worthwhile for the double tax.
negotiate the dealer discount. Don’t get mixed up with manufacturers rebate.
watch out for dealer markup
Tell them you wanna lease and get the lease rebate , need very good credit for max rebate.
The final sale price (after tax, tag, fees, - trade in) is also your Adjusted Cap Cost.
for the buyout it, it would be the Adj Cap Cost plus should be $300 buyout fee, plus tax, tag, and fees again
Depending on your state, like FL, I had to visit a dealership for the buyout

This is when I leased





this is when I buyout

 

[AresTG]

Thanks AYip31.

I looked into MD Tax on leases (also I'm many pages into the lease thread and learning tons). Looks like in MD we pay the whole tax up front, and are exempt on the buyout. That said, some people on random internet sites mention paying tax at lease signing (the dealer's tax as the owner) then again at lease buyout when the lesee takes over ownership becoming the owner. Is this the doubel taxation you are referring to?

So far, it feels like there's 10 different gotcha's that you have to watch out for in these lease agreements. Any one of them could screw the deal and be more expensive than just buying, lol.

 

[AYip31]

Thanks AYip31.

I looked into MD Tax on leases (also I'm many pages into the lease thread and learning tons). Looks like in MD we pay the whole tax up front, and are exempt on the buyout. That said, some people on random internet sites mention paying tax at lease signing (the dealer's tax as the owner) then again at lease buyout when the lesee takes over ownership becoming the owner. Is this the doubel taxation you are referring to?

So far, it feels like there's 10 different gotcha's that you have to watch out for in these lease agreements. Any one of them could screw the deal and be more expensive than just buying, lol.

Yes. See my pics. Got tax twice
It’s a lot of work, but worth it.
you probably wanna write down all the steps and bring it with you when your negotiating and going through the process.
As you can see my OTD final buyout price is just above $31,500

go back to the lease buyout thread and see my post #1122

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

@AYip31

Your advice and information is incredible! I admit that I really did not know about all of these tricks and loop-holes... although I got a pretty good (maybe great?) deal on my Stinger through months of patience and proper negotiating strategy... I could have got an even better deal...

Going over this thread with my buddy who is looking to get another car... might not be a Stinger but the advice and information really helps!

 

[appletinienjoyer]

Honestly with how low the lease buyout amount has gotten, it might not be worth it anymore to bother with all this mess for lease buyouts. I believe there's a 0% APR financing incentive running, which, depending on the loan amount and amount of periods, could be worth ~$2500-3000 or so if you input it into a time value of money calculator.

Considering the 2022 model year lease incentive deals appear to only be around $3500 or so for the lease discount, and considering if you lease and then buyout, there are some additional fees and costs, as well as additional legwork on your part doing paperwork and making sure everything goes thru properly, it might end up being pretty much a wash to just finance it vs. doing the lease-buyout deal.

Looking back historically, lease buyout discounts were up to $8000-10,000 range at some points, in which case, its definitely worth it to do that, but now that the lease discounts are much lower, it might not make sense anymore.

 

[AYip31]

Honestly with how low the lease buyout amount has gotten, it might not be worth it anymore to bother with all this mess for lease buyouts. I believe there's a 0% APR financing incentive running, which, depending on the loan amount and amount of periods, could be worth ~$2500-3000 or so if you input it into a time value of money calculator.

Considering the 2022 model year lease incentive deals appear to only be around $3500 or so for the lease discount, and considering if you lease and then buyout, there are some additional fees and costs, as well as additional legwork on your part doing paperwork and making sure everything goes thru properly, it might end up being pretty much a wash to just finance it vs. doing the lease-buyout deal.

Looking back historically, lease buyout discounts were up to $8000-10,000 range at some points, in which case, its definitely worth it to do that, but now that the lease discounts are much lower, it might not make sense anymore.

Yep that is correct, maybe the days of crazy high lease rebate are gone.
thanks goodness I got in when I did!!!

 

[AresTG]

Honestly with how low the lease buyout amount has gotten, it might not be worth it anymore to bother with all this mess for lease buyouts. I believe there's a 0% APR financing incentive running, which, depending on the loan amount and amount of periods, could be worth ~$2500-3000 or so if you input it into a time value of money calculator.

Considering the 2022 model year lease incentive deals appear to only be around $3500 or so for the lease discount, and considering if you lease and then buyout, there are some additional fees and costs, as well as additional legwork on your part doing paperwork and making sure everything goes thru properly, it might end up being pretty much a wash to just finance it vs. doing the lease-buyout deal.

Looking back historically, lease buyout discounts were up to $8000-10,000 range at some points, in which case, its definitely worth it to do that, but now that the lease discounts are much lower, it might not make sense anymore.

definitely great points. I'm in a patient position myself, watching the incentives and then plan to execute when it feels right. I think my region is $6,700 max for lease and an extra $400 for military. At $7,100 it's probably still making financial sense, but it's something I plan to keep a keen eye on. So about $4,200 more than standard financing rebates. Definitely need to figure out the double tax thing, if it does or doesn't apply here in Maryland.

I definitely agree with your math on the 0% vs time value of money, but I tend to not take that into account in my personal finances. Money I would use for a car purchase is just sitting as cash whether I use it or not, it would not otherwise be invested if I financed the car or didn't buy it.

 

[AYip31]

definitely great points. I'm in a patient position myself, watching the incentives and then plan to execute when it feels right. I think my region is $6,700 max for lease and an extra $400 for military. At $7,100 it's probably still making financial sense, but it's something I plan to keep a keen eye on. So about $4,200 more than standard financing rebates. Definitely need to figure out the double tax thing, if it does or doesn't apply here in Maryland.

I definitely agree with your math on the 0% vs time value of money, but I tend to not take that into account in my personal finances. Money I would use for a car purchase is just sitting as cash whether I use it or not, it would not otherwise be invested if I financed the car or didn't buy it.

The $400 military should not stack with lease rebate.
But I could be wrong

 

[AYip31]

It’s also trying to get the dealership to play ball and get at least 10% off of dealer discount

 

[AresTG]

based off edmunds, the military rebates are for both buying and leasing (there's two separate military rebates based on the route you buy).

The dealer discount I'm comfortable with. I love buying cars below invoice, lol. Lease has always been a curse word in my life, so learning how to use it to my advantage and not be burned is where I'm reading, and reading, and reading....

 

[AYip31]

based off edmunds, the military rebates are for both buying and leasing (there's two separate military rebates based on the route you buy).

The dealer discount I'm comfortable with. I love buying cars below invoice, lol. Lease has always been a curse word in my life, so learning how to use it to my advantage and not be burned is where I'm reading, and reading, and reading....

Good to know

yes, do your homework!

 

[thomas5986]

Hey there, I can tell you I called around for days to different dealerships and spent 3X as long on the internet looking at cars and by far the dealer that stood out was King Kia in Gaithersburg. Nan Wong was my sales lady and Boris was the middle man but let me tell you they both took care of me. I don't get any kickback but we had a common interest between us and I feel like if you mention me they could possibly take a tad bit more care of you... I too have owned very many vehicles so I feel like I know when I'm being jerked around and they didn't play games so I appreciated that. I feel like you will not know the exact dollar amount for the lease buyout when the time comes but I may be wrong there. I do know they gave me a figure at the dealership and if that was a 100% accurate or not I don't know. I'm sure it can't be far off. I've never leased a vehicle either but with the lease incentives I couldn't resist, considering I feel like I would keep the car anyway Instead of turning it in after 2 years.

 

[AresTG]

Hey there, I can tell you I called around for days to different dealerships and spent 3X as long on the internet looking at cars and by far the dealer that stood out was King Kia in Gaithersburg. Nan Wong was my sales lady and Boris was the middle man but let me tell you they both took care of me. I don't get any kickback but we had a common interest between us and I feel like if you mention me they could possibly take a tad bit more care of you... I too have owned very many vehicles so I feel like I know when I'm being jerked around and they didn't play games so I appreciated that. I feel like you will not know the exact dollar amount for the lease buyout when the time comes but I may be wrong there. I do know they gave me a figure at the dealership and if that was a 100% accurate or not I don't know. I'm sure it can't be far off. I've never leased a vehicle either but with the lease incentives I couldn't resist, considering I feel like I would keep the car anyway Instead of turning it in after 2 years.

thanks greatly for replying with that info!

Something else I forgot was the conquest rebate. Last I looked it was available in my region when buying (maybe you have to finance?). Either way, it was pretty significant and I have a qualifying car to trade in. If the lease incentive drops again, it may be less than the finance+conquest rebates. Or at least damn close, and enough to make me not go through the trouble, haha.

 

[Nocostinger]

Hi Thomas,
I'm too new to send a PM, sorry for the open forum post. I'm local to you in Carroll County and hoping you'd share with me the dealer you worked with and what kind of purchase you made and deal you got.

I've NEVER leased a vehicle, but these Stinger lease buyout conversations make me think I could be doing better than my normal good car purchases. I'm not planning to buy until late this year or early next year, but I'm a weirdo that can do research for months before a car purchase.

For the general group, can you answer this for me? When going with the lease buyout technique, can you remove ALL variables and know what your total cost will be when it's all said and done, or are you left signing the lease not knowing what your buyout and/or final costs are? I've bought a million cars, financed, cash, mix of both and I have gotten fantastic deals. The terminology in Leases is all different, most make no sense to me, and I can't go down an avenue that I don't fully understand. I'd rather just make a traditional purchase and understand all terms of the sale than sign anything I don't understand.

Thanks!

best way to summarize:

Lease Buyout strategy works best only if the lease incentives are greater than the amount of interest you'll pay performing a lease buyout.

If prevalent used cars rates charge you $4,000 in interest over 6 years but the incentives are $6,500 then absolutely lease then buy it out.

However, if your used car rate charges you $4,000 in interest over 6 years and your lease incentive is $3,500 then you'd be better off taking their promotional finance rate.

I know right now 2021's are getting 0% for 66 months on all trims which, is pretty damn good these days. Negotiate $3,000 off of sticker due to the 2022's hitting lots, why not.

Since you're unfamiliar with leasing, heres a cheat sheet for you:

RESIDUAL VALUE = What Kia estimates your leased vehicle will be worth in 2/3/4 years. This is expressed as a percent. I've seen Stingers have a 55% residual value which, is pretty darn good.

MONEY FACTOR = Because legally they can't call it an interest rate but, thats basically what it is. Some people call it a usage charge. They're technically correct but it functions like interest. To convert MONEY FACTOR TO APR: money factor x 2400. As an example: MF 0.00180 x 2400 = 4.32% apr.

CAP COST or CAPITALIZED COST = The amount that is being financed in a lease ( amount you're paying on the lease over 2/3/4 years.)

CAP COST REDUCTION = Down payment and/or incentives

CAP COST usually factors negotiated price the of car and any taxes/fees/finance bullshit you might decide to buy.

LEASE END VALUE or LEV = The Guaranteed amount your vehicle will be worth at the end of lease.

When looking to do a lease buyout here are a few things to keep in mind:

NEVER TELL THE DEALER WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
Its none of their business and they'll try to steer you into a situation where they actually make a profit on these cars.

PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO HIDDEN FEES.
I've seen dealers try and sneak in "Warranty extensions" and "Exterior coatings" in the CAP COST area. It'll look good to the untrained eye because of the lower payment but, if you look close you'll see it doesn't make sense.

NEVER BUY IT BACK AT THE DEALER
If you have a great relationship with your credit union, take advantage of that. A credit union or your local bank will simply create an auto loan for the car. No dealership "processing charge" or "loan origination charge" or any of the other horseshit.
Another EXCELLENT resource is an Auto Broker. I was an Auto Broker for a while and had 3 times as many financing options as any dealership I had worked for. I would do lease buyouts using credit unions for their stellar rates and make a flat fee from the CU as my fee. Clean and simple.

DM me if you have questions. I know more about dealership crap than I want to from working at dealerships 90% of my career.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I never lease and always buy as I put low miles on the car and always pay it off within a couple of years. In the case of the stinger, i got a 10k discount off MSRP and paid cash/ used financing. with the 10k discount I don't think I would have even been eligible for any other discounts or rebates. I know I was not able to use Kia's low finance rates because of the discount. just wondering if you keep shopping around you may be able to get a discount that is greater than all of the rebates you may have otherwise been eligible for, then you can just pay cash and or finance the car.

 

[appletinienjoyer]

I never lease and always buy as I put low miles on the car and always pay it off within a couple of years. In the case of the stinger, i got a 10k discount off MSRP and paid cash/ used financing. with the 10k discount I don't think I would have even been eligible for any other discounts or rebates. I know I was not able to use Kia's low finance rates because of the discount. just wondering if you keep shopping around you may be able to get a discount that is greater than all of the rebates you may have otherwise been eligible for, then you can just pay cash and or finance the car.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the incentives and discounts mentioned above are separate from the dealer, and are a payout from Kia Motors Finance directly, and whatever deal you negotiate w/ the dealer should be independent of the additional deals you get from Kia Motors. The incentives do not come out of the dealer's pocket, they come out of Kia Motors Finance, and as such, if you get a good discount from the dealer, it shouldn't preclude you from also taking advantage of the other offers.

 

[AYip31]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the incentives and discounts mentioned above are separate from the dealer, and are a payout from Kia Motors Finance directly, and whatever deal you negotiate w/ the dealer should be independent of the additional deals you get from Kia Motors. The incentives do not come out of the dealer's pocket, they come out of Kia Motors Finance, and as such, if you get a good discount from the dealer, it shouldn't preclude you from also taking advantage of the other offers.

Yep!!!

 

[StingertimeNC]

tough to say. The price I got was the best around at the time. I asked to take advantage of Kia's 2.9% financing at the time and they said they would have to add back in $2500 to the price of the car. so technically that incentive or whatever was coming from Kia, not the dealer, they just chose to advertise it with all discounts/incentives built in. I'm sure it wasn't just the dealer participating in that price, rather some combo of the two. At the end of the day a car price of 42.5k on a GT2 was good enough for me, I just had to use another bank for financing, not Kia Finance.

 

[AYip31]

its how I got little more then $11,100 off of MRSP
10% off for dealer discount and add manufacturer lease rebate $7,100

 

[ghettozoo]

Where do I even start ... leased a Kia in 2018 and the lease is up this month. Now that I have this forum information available how can I purchase a new Stinger that is at another dealership a state away and "trade" in my old lease KIA. I must return to my local dealer ship to end/tradein the old car for the new car but unsure how to start negotiations... do I just work on the final price of the car located at another dealership 300 miles away... does my local call them and ask for the car first to see if they can even get it? if the other dealer says no then what?