Oil Catch Can inquiry

[Sime]

Ok, as we are all aware, GDI engines are prone to clogging up intake valves, and we all assume that the manufacturers are probably aware of it.

So, Catch Cans.

If these simple devices are as good as people make them out to be, and as we all know, they are cheap to buy and any novice with half a brain can install them and maintain, so why aren’t companies like Kia installing OCC’s when they manufacture GDI engines. It would be in their best interests to do so, given the long warranties they give and it’s most likely that within that warranty period, blocked intake valves will come up and I assume, the warranty should cover that repair.
I for the life of me cannot see any reason why they can’t be implemented into the engine design at the RnD stage and built into every GDI engine. Less drama, happy GDI owners.
We all understand why manufacturers have to implement engines to comply with emissions regulations, and there is more than enough evidence out there today to prove that there’s an issue.
So why are they not being fully implemented into GDI engines, and leaving it to the consumer to do so after purchasing. It can’t be a cost thing for Kia, so why is this still an issue in a MY19 GDI car?

Simon.

 

[app_master]

John explains this one pretty well. I don't like all his drivle but this one is ok ish.

 

[Sime]

John explains this one pretty well. I don't like all his drivle but this one is ok ish.

I’ve seen that video, I’m a big fan of the fella, he doesn’t recommend OCC’s, says that newer GDI engines have the situation sorted, so if he is correct, why are people adding OCC’s to Stinger engines?
Is it simply because people are being overly cautious?
Have people actually looked at the valves of their higher mileage Stingers to see if they are starting to get valve carbon issues?

 

[app_master]

Your question is certainly a really a good one ... and this reddit reply is one of the absolute best from a cons point of view.

I actaully have a Mann Provent 200 on my turbo diesel ute... but that is dirty old beast of a thing, with a tune and EGR delete bypass also. Works. My oil comes out clean.

Will I put one on my hipo Stinger, probably not, but jury is still out.

Over to the pro's...

If oil catch-cans are so beneficial, why are they not installed in cars from the factory? : cars

There's plenty of debate from people who have actual mechanical engineering backgrounds and it's often against these things. They have more risk and labor involved than benefit. They don't actually do shit. Most of what they catch is water vapor, a small amount of unburnt fuel, and a very minuscule amount of oil "blow by" that has already been atomized.

They do not prevent coking of valves. That's caused by the injectors being unable to wash them down with fuel like what port injection used to do. It's a byproduct of the combustion process in the cylinder itself. It's like a type of soot.

Also it doesn't affect performance or reliability all that much. I have yet to see any person show me an example in which they've lost performance in any measurable way due to valve coking. Not one. The only fair way to do so would be to record data frequently since purchase of a new car with DI and plot it while also extrapolating for environmental, fueling quality, and atmospheric variables to offset outliers in performance.

If it bugs you so much just get the damn thing media blasted sf 50k miles or something.

Catch cans don't do shit, meth is a pain in the ass to install, and auxiliary fueling had to be tuned for.

You know who says they work? Aftermarket parts manufacturers. You know who don't employ a lot of engineers? Aftermarket parts manufacturers. See where I'm going with this?

A lot of tuning shops (like 99%) don't have the capability to make anything more than very simple bolt-ons often due to a lack of any actual engineering talent on staff (because engineers are expensive) and limited manufacturing capability. They also often have the almost complete inability (either through lack of equipment, ignorance of how to actually do the testing, or some combination of it) to research and test their own parts.

So what do they do? Mostly take measurements and send those specs off to China or another East Asian company to get whatever it is they want made. That is uncommon. Most actually just but "white box" parts of the same design that's been slightly changed that another larger vendor has already commissioned with the same Asian fabricator.

Catch cans are a scam like so many other bolt ons. The only case you might see one is on a dedicated race car where absolute purity of the fuel during combustion is paramount because the engine is so strung out that even minor knocks could do catastrophic damages and cost that driver the race. That's the only time. So far every person I've seen buy one only goes to car meets because racing scares them.​

 

[ShannonC]

I've been wondering the same but I'm happy to have nearly 6 years of warrranty left to find the answer. Assuming I keep the car for that long.

 

[Sime]

The way I see it, if it was actually beneficial, Kia would include them. There is no reason, especially cost, to not include them if they made their engines more reliable/maintained. You would actually think that they would be thrilled to be able to include GDI performance with a solution to its drawbacks.

 

[oddball]

The way I see it, if it was actually beneficial, Kia would include them. There is no reason, especially cost, to not include them if they made their engines more reliable/maintained. You would actually think that they would be thrilled to be able to include GDI performance with a solution to its drawbacks.

Yeah...... Catch cans are expensive and complicated. The cheaper approaches require the owner to monitor and drain the can, which simply isn't going to happen on a typical production car. Or they would have to fully integrate it into the engine like Volvo does, but that requires quite a bit of specific packaging and design to make it work. Which is expensive. OEMs are extremely money driven. Don't be fooled otherwise. If an accountant determines that the potential increase in warranty work costs less than the delta production cost, then they're going with the cheaper design. Why do you think the front end of the stinger has struts?!

And the OEMs aren't convinced that intake valve deposits on a GDI engine are a problem. Doesn't mean they're right. This is the kind of thing that will take years to really show. Sure, they do lots of testing, but it's focused on economy and warranty claims. Just like transmissions with "lifetime" fluid. Doesn't mean the fluid lasts forever - just means it's likely to last long enough for the warranty to run out. Hell, my Volvo doesn't even have an oil dipstick! Does that mean oil never needs to be checked and maintained?

 

[MisterMac]

I first began using OCC's in 2013 on my new Charger R/T when it had about 5,000 miles on it. I was skeptical at first, so I took things apart to have a look see inside. I was shocked to find a lot of carbon buildup! I cleaned with sea foam and installed the catch can.

At about 20,000 miles I traded my 2013 R/T for a 2014 100th anniversary edition Charger R/T and took my OCC with me so it was installed from day one. I then sold it to my son-in-law who still has it with nearly 100,000 miles on it. Last fall we took things apart again to find the real value of an OCC. We found things so clean you could almost eat off of them! Okay, slight exaggeration. However, it was cleaner than my 2013 was pre-OCC.

This experience, coupled with the visual of all the oil we empty from the OCC every time makes me comfortable spending a few hundred bucks to keep my valves clean. Call it piece of mind. Call it insanity. Doesn't matter. I am a believer in installing OCC's on DI engines and I will continue to do so.

 

[cncBilly]

I first began using OCC's in 2013 on my new Charger R/T when it had about 5,000 miles on it. I was skeptical at first, so I took things apart to have a look see inside. I was shocked to find a lot of carbon buildup! I cleaned with sea foam and installed the catch can.

At about 20,000 miles I traded my 2013 R/T for a 2014 100th anniversary edition Charger R/T and took my OCC with me so it was installed from day one. I then sold it to my son-in-law who still has it with nearly 100,000 miles on it. Last fall we took things apart again to find the real value of an OCC. We found things so clean you could almost eat off of them! Okay, slight exaggeration. However, it was cleaner than my 2013 was pre-OCC.

This experience, coupled with the visual of all the oil we empty from the OCC every time makes me comfortable spending a few hundred bucks to keep my valves clean. Call it piece of mind. Call it insanity. Doesn't matter. I am a believer in installing OCC's on DI engines and I will continue to do so.

I just order one and was having secong thoughts. Not now. Thx.

 

[SKStinger]

I first began using OCC's in 2013 on my new Charger R/T when it had about 5,000 miles on it. I was skeptical at first, so I took things apart to have a look see inside. I was shocked to find a lot of carbon buildup! I cleaned with sea foam and installed the catch can.

At about 20,000 miles I traded my 2013 R/T for a 2014 100th anniversary edition Charger R/T and took my OCC with me so it was installed from day one. I then sold it to my son-in-law who still has it with nearly 100,000 miles on it. Last fall we took things apart again to find the real value of an OCC. We found things so clean you could almost eat off of them! Okay, slight exaggeration. However, it was cleaner than my 2013 was pre-OCC.

This experience, coupled with the visual of all the oil we empty from the OCC every time makes me comfortable spending a few hundred bucks to keep my valves clean. Call it piece of mind. Call it insanity. Doesn't matter. I am a believer in installing OCC's on DI engines and I will continue to do so.

I’m a believer as well. In only 1500 kms of driving my ADD W1 PCV catch can had 1/4 inch of nasty gunk in it. I’d rather have it in the can than on my valves.

 

[cncBilly]

I’m a believer as well. In only 1500 kms of driving my ADD W1 PCV catch can had 1/4 inch of nasty gunk in it. I’d rather have it in the can than on my valves.

Copy that! Ordered mine yesterday, picked up my car last week sooner better that later.

 

[cncBilly]

3500K since I install my ADD W1. I got a solid half table spoon of oil out of it today. I when to video the process but my phone was dead.

 

[StingerHP]

9k miles, the other right intake occ is clean

 

[Manaz]

The way I see it, if it was actually beneficial, Kia would include them. There is no reason, especially cost, to not include them if they made their engines more reliable/maintained. You would actually think that they would be thrilled to be able to include GDI performance with a solution to its drawbacks.

There is one very important reason for them to do this, to stick with simplicity.

The lowest common denominator car owner.

 

[Stump]

So who here has a OCC on their Stinger. What kind and does it do the job? Are they difficult to install? Was thinking about putting one on.

 

[CoconutRob]

Sxth element, yes does the job, I thought it was easy.

 

[Stump]

Sxth element, yes does the job, I thought it was easy.

Was thinking about using ADD W1 V3.

 

[CoconutRob]

I chose sxth element for several reasons over the ADD
1. the mounting bracket
2. The GT hose bracket
3. Ease of draining
4. Mounting location
5. Check valve included
6. Final fit and finish

 

[Stump]

I chose sxth element for several reasons over the ADD
1. the mounting bracket
2. The GT hose bracket
3. Ease of draining
4. Mounting location
5. Check valve included
6. Final fit and finish

The SXTH ELEMENT 3.3TT single catch can kit? What did you mount it to? I really can’t tell by the pics.

 

[CoconutRob]

I bought dual can . It comes with a mount that bolts to existing stud.