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New JB4 Stinger Dyno Results!

Discussion in 'The Ultimate Kia Stinger Tuning Forum' started by Terry@BMS, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Revvdmedia

    Revvdmedia United States Stinger Enthusiast

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    I also have DIY intakes, so that may factor into ECU boost. Supposedly, at least in the USA, AWD Stingers were pushing about 2lbs more boost than RWD. I wonder if for some reason the Canadian Stinger tuning is neutered and only puts out around that 10 mark like the RWD cars. I've seen a few other logs from Canadians and I'm not seeing that magical 12psi commanded across the pull.

    **Edit on the boost level** I actually get more than 10psi average when in fourth gear. At least on my car I don't get that magical 11-12 psi until in fourth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 4:45 PM
  2. Shrikecorp

    Shrikecorp United States Active Member Sustaining Member

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    Speaking from a position of mostly ignorance, I like it. C'mon, we have circuitry nerds around here do we not? Chime in.
     
  3. Mr. Tech

    Mr. Tech United States Member

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    Oh okay, yeah, the intakes could affect that. I'll see what happens when I eventually get my intakes on. After this chat, I'm thinking the JB4 "learned" to cut throttle when shifting to 2nd due to seeing what it thought was overboost.
     
  4. Revvdmedia

    Revvdmedia United States Stinger Enthusiast

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    I don't think the JB4 will cut boost unless there is something seriously wrong (exceeding 20psi, massive knock detection). The JB4 normally only triggers the extra boost. The JB4 will revert to map 0 if it senses problems. If the throttle was cut, I think that is more on the ECU end, and you could be seeing it if your ECU PSI was getting values too high, maybe.
     
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  5. Mr. Tech

    Mr. Tech United States Member

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    Good to know. Maybe I'll revert back to Map 1 and run that for a while, then try map 2 again when I get new intakes or fuel wires installed. I know everyone says the throttle cuts are fine, but if the ECU thinks it needs to cut throttle, it's still a little concerning to me. I've yet to see anyone explain WHY it's normal and safe.
     
  6. xot1

    xot1 France 1000 Posts Club!

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    Too much RPM
     
  7. Revvdmedia

    Revvdmedia United States Stinger Enthusiast

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    LOL I guess mine isn't "too fast" enough to get the revs to high yet.
     
  8. Shrikecorp

    Shrikecorp United States Active Member Sustaining Member

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    Hmm. As a very long time rider, I'm used to banging the rev limiter on (ahem) occasion. This is pretty normal and doesn't result in catastrophic failure...because it's a limiter, designed to prevent such. So I find it problematic that these cars that cost 4x as much as a good liter bike are theoretically so vulnerable to over revving.
     
  9. Manaz

    Manaz Australia Stinger Enthusiast Staff Member Moderator

    Reciprocating mass in a 3.3L engine is very different than in a 1L engine. So are the power and torque levels involved. So too here are the drivetrains significantly different (torque converter automatic vs wet clutch manual - it'd be different even if the Stinger was manual, as cars don't run wet clutches.

    All that extra money pays for a lot more than drive-train differences, of course. How's the stereo on your 1L bike, or the air conditioning, the ability to carry 4 passengers in comfort plus their luggage, or the crash safety?

    With the folly of the car vs bike comparison oit of the way , I don't think anyone is having an over-revving issue in any way that a rev-limiter (the Stinger has one too) would impact.

    The only references to over-revving I've seen mentioned have been with regards to getting revs right on a launch (too many revs and you end up with excessive wheelspin/axle tramp, too few and the car bogs down) or, with the custom brake switch enabled, holding too many revs for too long with the engine loaded up and turbo spooling while holding the car on the brakes, and then being surprised that with all that torque being generated by the engine and the wheels not turning, being surprised when something breaks.

    Back in the days when the WRX was new, people kept complaining that the clutch would slip if you dropped the clutch at 5,500rpm. So they'd go and upgrade their clutches - and break gearboxes (the early 5-speed WRX gearboxes have a (largely, but perhaps not entirely) unfairly earned reputation for being made of glass - they were mostly fine if you weren't abusing them). So people toughend up their gearboxes, and started shattering driveshafts.

    This was particularly prevalent in the WRX because of the hitherto unseen levels of traction the Subaru AWD drive-train provided under acceleration, and the power (and torque) levels being applied. In a RWD car with the same power/torque, traction was the limiting factor, and wheelspin relieved the pressure on the drive-train when dropping the clutch at launch. But with AWD, you have effectively twice the grip - and then something else had to give instead, and in the thoughtfully designed drive-train, that was the clutch - relatively inexpensive and relatively easy to replace.

    Coming back to the Stinger - we're now seeing 400hp and above being put out by our cars, and max torque available from 1300rpm. We know that Kia limits boost (and thus torque) in launch control mode, and there's probably a reason for that (not as absolute as you might think I'm saying*). By innovating with the brake switch, we're bypassing the safety barrier that Kia put in place - like a safety barrier near a cliff, going past it doesn't immediately mean you're falling off the cliff, but it does mean we have to be more careful, and by bypassing that barrier acknowledge that we're entering potentially dangerous territory. Mechanical sympathy is a thing kids - if you're not prepared to use it, then be prepared to pay for repairs. For some of us, that is a decision we take when we start modding - we acknowledge that if we cause a problem, we're probably going to pay for it. We do our best to avoid causing problems (the JB4 is a great example here - it allows us to step over the public safety barrier and go closer to the cliff, but includes a safety harness or two in the additional checks it does, the "fail back to map0" behaviour it it detects a problem, the logging it provides, to make sure we don't fall).

    * Barrier to entry comment. We're talking about a 1700kg car with 400hp, and the only real barrier to entry are a) you have a driver's licence and b) you can afford it. In the wrong hands, a 1700kg car with 400hp can be murderous, and it's a complex piece of machinery, yet "ability to actually drive" and "knowledge of even the fundamentals of automotive engineering" (like "check oil/water/tyres regularly, select fuel on a basis other than price, etc") are not considered. And then Kia had to offer those people a 7-year warranty - and to do so, they make a simple decision to configure the car for the "lowest common denominator" owner. That means that for many of us who are above that low watermark, some of the decisions that Kia make don't suit us - and that's one reason we mod. :)
     
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  10. ecko04

    ecko04 Active Member

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    @Manaz

    upload_2019-7-11_21-28-12.gif
     
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  11. Shrikecorp

    Shrikecorp United States Active Member Sustaining Member

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    TLDR: Bikes and cars are different. Correct.
     
  12. Mr. Tech

    Mr. Tech United States Member

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    I don't think it's too much RPM. Here are three map 2 runs on the same day, ambient temperature within a couple degrees. Two of them don't have throttle drops, one does. The one with the throttle drop had the lowest max RPM.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Manaz

    Manaz Australia Stinger Enthusiast Staff Member Moderator

    So we agree that your post comparing them was pointless, and that you had the wrong end of the stick on "over-revving"?

    Awesome. :)

    PS I said a lot more than showing the car vs bike comparison was folly. Maybe actually read what I said - yes, it's long, but I think it's actually valid and relevant.
     
  14. Shrikecorp

    Shrikecorp United States Active Member Sustaining Member

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    Nah, my initial post was pretty much hyperbole phrased as a question. But not an intentional troll, just venting frustration with the limitations of...well, physics I suppose. Your point is valid.
     
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  15. Mr. Tech

    Mr. Tech United States Member

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    I did a bit more digging through my logs. Looks like the common denominator in every throttle drop is an overboost of at least .5psi above target whenever I'm over 6000 RPM. Here's a few snapshots. Yellow highlights the throttle drop, green is the overboost and RPM, blue are conditions where there was overboost, but the RPM was lower than 6000. So it looks like this is partially RPM related.

    @Revvdmedia, could you send me a couple of your pedal to the floor 0-60 logs? I'd like to see if you have any overboosting or not.

    I suppose the next big question is, what's causing the overboost condition?
     

    Attached Files:

    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Revvdmedia

    Revvdmedia United States Stinger Enthusiast

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    Here are some logs for you to reference. I was testing fuels, hence the file names lol. All have 0-60 runs within, the Petro run is a 1/4 mile at the track.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Mr. Tech

    Mr. Tech United States Member

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    Thanks for these. Looks like you are overboosting, but it's being compensated for by running super rich instead of pulling throttle. "fuelen" is how much fuel is being added, by percentage. Looking at this snapshot from your Husky 94 run, you overboost (green), then right after it dumps in 100% of whatever it can for fuel (yellow), bringing your AFR all the way down to 2 (also yellow).

    Unrelated, but further down the log (not shown), your AFR goes to 3.8 for a while once you're completely off the gas and on the brake. From what I've seen, and understand, AFR should go to infinity (shown as about 25 in our logs) when you're not on the gas since we have direct injection motors. For reference, I've never seen my AFR drop below 9.5 in any condition, whether full throttle, part throttle, coasting, or braking. You may want to have @Terry@BMS take a look at that log.

    I'm sure I've asked this already, but I forgot. You have the fuel wires connected, right?
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Revvdmedia

    Revvdmedia United States Stinger Enthusiast

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    I do not have fuel wires attached yet, I'm waiting for the plug and play option.

    And what the hell on my AFR, that's gross. At least if it is going to dump in that much fuel, I want some pops and crackles!

    Actually, since I mention the above, I have seen guys doing off-the-line runs in tuned Stingers with aftermarket exhaust and it does let out a "fart" from the 1-2 change lol. Could be the same thing you're seeing in my log.
     
  19. Mr. Tech

    Mr. Tech United States Member

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    Lol, yeah, looks like you need a new exhaust now so you can join the fart club :laugh:. Seriously though, that's right on your 1-2 shift so that could be exactly what's happening on the other Stingers.

    Did you disable the fuel wires in the JB4 app? I'm pretty sure fuelen isn't logged if you don't have the wires attached. Either that, or mine is always 0 for some reason.
     
  20. Revvdmedia

    Revvdmedia United States Stinger Enthusiast

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    Yes I did whatever the guide said for turning off fuel wires in the settings.
     
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