Lexus IS500 "F-Sport" Thoughts and feelings?

[Stingin' Away]

I sold Lexus for a pretty good portion of my sales career and sold the IS-F, Did the Launch training and sold both the RC-F and GS-F. All 3 of these F cars while not being the fastest out there, had such phenomenal character and sound. I've always appreciated how Lexus went the extra mile to give the cars exclusive body kits and aerodynamics as well as unique suspension and transmission components such as the Torque vectoring rear diff (a MUST HAVE option on the RC-F and GS-F).

That said, seeing the launch of the successor to the IS-F, the IS500 F-sport I was underwhelmed. I felt like they didn't do as much as they could with the body of the car. The fenders and stance don't look much wider, the exhaust tips are understated, the rear diffuser looks cheap, the outer-front bumper "scoops" are opened up, but only partially.
Lexus quotes a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds which, is a butt-hair quicker than the Stinger GT, its sub-$40k buddy that weighs 300-500lbs more. Now, while speed isn't everything and Lexus usually does a stellar job with the handling on the true F cars, I expected more when the previous model M's are sub-4 second cars and ALL the Benz AMG cars just as quick as well.
I also lament the lack of different seating in this car. Having driven BMW M's and AMG's, I've been really impressed by their focus on driver position in something that is built to perform. Not seeing this in the IS500 is pretty disappointing.
I was excited to see it but I feel so let down by the lack of "uniqueness" brought to the table by this car.

Thoughts and feelings from my fellow car guys?

I have yet to drive a Lexus but I do not find the appeal it has on people. It's an over-priced Toyota. I know they are reliable but I never found an appreciation for them. The only Lexus I would consider is the LFA and that is a "bit" out of my price range.

They are progressive and appealing to the masses, but the performance and value it brings to the table lacks for me.

 

[BertBert2019GT]

The only Lexus I would consider is the LFA

I listen to the exhaust clips of LFA's to fall sleep at night

 

[YEH]

Their TTV6 is even less powerful than their NA V8, though. I suppose they could alter the software to make more but that would probably sacrifice long term reliability.

I guess they did what makes the best sense for them, it just makes no sense to me. Granted, I'm a softcore Lexus hater.

442 vs 395 pound-feet of torque.

And for a performance oriented model, I'm sure Toyota could massage more out of the TTV6.

 

[turboAWD]

I was temporarily interested - my dream with the Stinger was (before Covid) to do 5-10 HPDEs a year, and still have a fast around-town daily driver and a car I could take the family (4 of us) on the occasional road trip. The wife's "new" '16 GTI is too small for that - effectively a 2/3 seater, and the minivan ('15 Town and Country - we held on to it when getting the GTI, since they would have given us a horrible trade in) is, well, the minivan. It's ok for what it is, and we've taken tons of trips in it and the '08 Grand Caravan before that and it's ok. I took the family to Tahoe in the Stinger and that was great. Plus a few shorter trips since then.

I do have some concerns about long-term reliability with the Stinger, especially the transmission with jb4 map3. Looked at the IS-F a long time ago and also GS-F right before the Stinger, but the legroom in this car is atrocious. 32.2 inches in the rear? That's tiny. Even the TLX has ~35, and for some dumb reason, they didn't use the longer wheelbase to increase rear legroom, but to increase the engine bay size. If Acura'd done 36 or 37 (my daughters are on the tall side) instead of a larger engine bay, it would have been a no-brainer for me.

This would only work like the GTI (brief around-town trips, or for only 2-3 of us) - no need for ANOTHER one of those. And if I was going to spend $56K (base price, rumored on motor trend, IIRC) on a track-only car, this would NOT be it - I'd get a C8.

I.e. make up your mind - with these dimensions, might as well make a 2-door coupe, since you're not fooling anyone into thinking this is a practical 4-door sedan except for a just-married or 1 or 2 toddler family and even then, only for a few years.

 

[SKStinger]

I was temporarily interested - my dream with the Stinger was (before Covid) to do 5-10 HPDEs a year, and still have a fast around-town daily driver and a car I could take the family (4 of us) on the occasional road trip. The wife's "new" '16 GTI is too small for that - effectively a 2/3 seater, and the minivan ('15 Town and Country - we held on to it when getting the GTI, since they would have given us a horrible trade in) is, well, the minivan. It's ok for what it is, and we've taken tons of trips in it and the '08 Grand Caravan before that and it's ok. I took the family to Tahoe in the Stinger and that was great. Plus a few shorter trips since then.

I do have some concerns about long-term reliability with the Stinger, especially the transmission with jb4 map3. Looked at the IS-F a long time ago and also GS-F right before the Stinger, but the legroom in this car is atrocious. 32.2 inches in the rear? That's tiny. Even the TLX has ~35, and for some dumb reason, they didn't use the longer wheelbase to increase rear legroom, but to increase the engine bay size. If Acura'd done 36 or 37 (my daughters are on the tall side) instead of a larger engine bay, it would have been a no-brainer for me.

This would only work like the GTI (brief around-town trips, or for only 2-3 of us) - no need for ANOTHER one of those. And if I was going to spend $56K (base price, rumored on motor trend, IIRC) on a track-only car, this would NOT be it - I'd get a C8.

I.e. make up your mind - with these dimensions, might as well make a 2-door coupe, since you're not fooling anyone into thinking this is a practical 4-door sedan except for a just-married or 1 or 2 toddler family and even then, only for a few years.

Agreed. It’s too small and the backseat is useless. Might as well get the RC if you really want a Lexus sports car.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

I am going to sound foolish but why is Toyota/Lexus using forced induction in their vehicles? I thought for reliability, longevity, and for overall better daily drivability that a vehicle being naturally aspirated is superior than forced induction? Aren't the most reliable and longest lasting Toyota/Lexus vehicles the ones with naturally aspirated engines?

 

[Kamauxx]

Aren't the most reliable and longest lasting Toyota/Lexus vehicles the ones with naturally aspirated engines?

That could be because Toyota/Lexus has mostly stayed away from FI. The vehicles they've put FI powerplants in are still relatively young (outside of 1990s Supras and such) so their reliability can't really be compared with NA models that have been around for decades.

I'm squarely in the "Toyota can't" rather than "Toyota won't" camp.

("can't" meaning: cost prohibitive, engineering constraints, lack of knowhow, etc.)

 

[stoopid]

I am going to sound foolish but why is Toyota/Lexus using forced induction in their vehicles? I thought for reliability, longevity, and for overall better daily drivability that a vehicle being naturally aspirated is superior than forced induction? Aren't the most reliable and longest lasting Toyota/Lexus vehicles the ones with naturally aspirated engines?

You can do FI without adding a ton of risk to the engine's long term reliability. Keeping boost low certainly helps, forged pistons, direct and port fuel injection (to keep the back of the valves clean), improved turbo cooling, proper tuning, etc.

 

[Nocostinger]

I have yet to drive a Lexus but I do not find the appeal it has on people. It's an over-priced Toyota. I know they are reliable but I never found an appreciation for them. The only Lexus I would consider is the LFA and that is a "bit" out of my price range.

They are progressive and appealing to the masses, but the performance and value it brings to the table lacks for me.

I've found the handling on the IS350's to be pretty excellent for the class. They sure built it to be a fun daily driver. However, it does lack the power it really needs. I feel all of Lexus's sporty cars are a little low on power but their focus on handling is quite impressive. I had an RCF demo for a while and it was easily one of the most comfortable sports cars ive driven long term apart from the stinger. Comfortable and quiet until you pin the right pedal lol

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Yupperz...

All good points...

Well... then I will say I trust Toyota/Lexus doing forced induction correctly for reliability and longevity...

My family, my friends, and almost every single person I know... purchases a Toyota/Lexus product for a peace of mind, some comfort, a bit of luxury, and reliability... I genuinely would take an LC500 or RCF over so many supercars knowing that I could fire it up whenever I wanted, take it on whichever road trips I wish, and never worry about a problem... Sure... the 488 or Huracan or 570s might be significantly faster and more fun to drive... but I don't like owning a car that if I want to turn it on to drive it or take it cross country I am worried if it can do it...

 

[Wan El Guapo]

That could be because Toyota/Lexus has mostly stayed away from FI. The vehicles they've put FI powerplants in are still relatively young (outside of 1990s Supras and such) so their reliability can't really be compared with NA models that have been around for decades.

I'm squarely in the "Toyota can't" rather than "Toyota won't" camp.

("can't" meaning: cost prohibitive, engineering constraints, lack of knowhow, etc.)

I have never owned a toyota/lexus because they were always too boring, starting to see that change since their 2017 announcement, no more boring cars (then they launched the new Camry lol). But l think this view is outdated. They are changing. The GR Yaris is turbo, and the most powerful 3 cylinder in production. By all accounts its a great enthusiast car. Just saying Toyota can, they just never wanted to. The LFA showed they can. Still best sounding car ever.

 

[turboAWD]

Yupperz...

All good points...

Well... then I will say I trust Toyota/Lexus doing forced induction correctly for reliability and longevity...

My family, my friends, and almost every single person I know... purchases a Toyota/Lexus product for a peace of mind, some comfort, a bit of luxury, and reliability... I genuinely would take an LC500 or RCF over so many supercars knowing that I could fire it up whenever I wanted, take it on whichever road trips I wish, and never worry about a problem... Sure... the 488 or Huracan or 570s might be significantly faster and more fun to drive... but I don't like owning a car that if I want to turn it on to drive it or take it cross country I am worried if it can do it...

Agreed. If they added 5 inches of rear legroom to this (I know, it would be a different car) and kept the sporty stuff, I'd probably be all over it and keep it for 15+ years.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Agreed. If they added 5 inches of rear legroom to this (I know, it would be a different car) and kept the sporty stuff, I'd probably be all over it and keep it for 15+ years.

For sure!! To each their own though!

 

[GenesisG70]

I have yet to drive a Lexus but I do not find the appeal it has on people. It's an over-priced Toyota. I know they are reliable but I never found an appreciation for them. The only Lexus I would consider is the LFA and that is a "bit" out of my price range.

They are progressive and appealing to the masses, but the performance and value it brings to the table lacks for me.

Completely agree the only Lexus you could see me driving is the LFA the rest of their cars are good, reliable, etc, but have no appeal to me, is just that there is something missing on any Lexus, I have never seen a Lexus other than the LFA and said wow that looks sexy, to me they are like ok another Lexus another senior or female driving it, nothing against females or seniors I champion gender equality but there is a reason why they are chosen by that demographic whereas as soon as you see the Stinger it catches your eyes with that long hood beautiful proportions and gorgeous rear design. To those whos point out that the Stinger might not be reliable I can say this is 1980 any more Kia cars are very reliable owned them since the 90's and had no problems with any of them.
But is your money you can buy a car that stands out or a car that people say oh another Lexus on the block.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Completely agree the only Lexus you could see me driving is the LFA the rest of their cars are good, reliable, etc, but have no appeal to me, is just that there is something missing on any Lexus, I have never seen a Lexus other than the LFA and said wow that looks sexy, to me they are like ok another Lexus another senior or female driving it, nothing against females or seniors I champion gender equality but there is a reason why they are chosen by that demographic whereas as soon as you see the Stinger it catches your eyes with that long hood beautiful proportions and gorgeous rear design. To those whos point out that the Stinger might not be reliable I can say this is 1980 any more Kia cars are very reliable owned them since the 90's and had no problems with any of them.
But is your money you can buy a car that stands out or a car that people say oh another Lexus on the block.

What about the RCF (stock or track edition or any of the variants) or LC500 though?

Btw do you feel like your R8 stands out? At my parents' apartment there is a 2nd generation R8 Coupe (not sure the trim or variation) and my mom (retirement age) asked me if it was the same "sporty Audi" as my father's coworker drove which was a TT or TTs of some type. I had to explain just how much faster, more expensive, and significantly rarer the R8 was compared to a TT. In her eyes it was a beautiful and sporty looking Audi car.

What I am I guess trying (keyword: trying) to say/ask is do you feel that the majority of the population who are not into cars simply mistake special cars for none-special cars simply if they share the badge? My friends who drive some very nice cars (C63, M4, S7, 1st-gen NSX, etc) don't really get that much hype or attention. I remember my buddy here in NY parked his Hellcat Challenger (with some serious mods on it) next to a base model SXT (V6?) Challenger and his wife genuinely thought they were the same cars.

 

[turboAWD]

I've always been a "go before show" kind of person, so if the car can move and handle, I don't care (up to a point - wouldn't drive an Aztek) if it's not the prettiest car on the road.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

I've always been a "go before show" kind of person, so if the car can move and handle, I don't care (up to a point - wouldn't drive an Aztek) if it's not the prettiest car on the road.

Same!

I think that's a big reason why I did not like the IS350 or RC350 that I test drove when shopping for a new car. I found both of those cars, especially the IS350, much better looking than the Stinger. I also know I am the minority since most people find the Stinger the more attractive vehicle.

I absolutely love the way the BRZ/GT86/FRS/86 looks... and I have many friends who have them as weekend toys (all with a turbo strapped on lmfao) but I am not brave enough for crazy modifications... so although I think the cars are gorgeous I just can't justify the stock performance...

But yes... go before show... absolutely agree with you on that!