Lexus IS500 "F-Sport" Thoughts and feelings?

[Nocostinger]

I sold Lexus for a pretty good portion of my sales career and sold the IS-F, Did the Launch training and sold both the RC-F and GS-F. All 3 of these F cars while not being the fastest out there, had such phenomenal character and sound. I've always appreciated how Lexus went the extra mile to give the cars exclusive body kits and aerodynamics as well as unique suspension and transmission components such as the Torque vectoring rear diff (a MUST HAVE option on the RC-F and GS-F).

That said, seeing the launch of the successor to the IS-F, the IS500 F-sport I was underwhelmed. I felt like they didn't do as much as they could with the body of the car. The fenders and stance don't look much wider, the exhaust tips are understated, the rear diffuser looks cheap, the outer-front bumper "scoops" are opened up, but only partially.
Lexus quotes a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds which, is a butt-hair quicker than the Stinger GT, its sub-$40k buddy that weighs 300-500lbs more. Now, while speed isn't everything and Lexus usually does a stellar job with the handling on the true F cars, I expected more when the previous model M's are sub-4 second cars and ALL the Benz AMG cars just as quick as well.
I also lament the lack of different seating in this car. Having driven BMW M's and AMG's, I've been really impressed by their focus on driver position in something that is built to perform. Not seeing this in the IS500 is pretty disappointing.
I was excited to see it but I feel so let down by the lack of "uniqueness" brought to the table by this car.

Thoughts and feelings from my fellow car guys?

 

[ballistic]

i'd have liked to see more power myself but considering it isn't an actual F car, its okay. i bet we see 0-60 a little better than theyre saying anyway. just keep in mind that this is an f-sport not an is-f.

 

[Nocostinger]

i'd have liked to see more power myself but considering it isn't an actual F car, its okay. i bet we see 0-60 a little better than theyre saying anyway. just keep in mind that this is an f-sport not an is-f.

True. My understanding is that the IS-F name wasn't available or that Lexus is looking towards a new naming convention.

 

[SKStinger]

Underwhelmed. Old platform, outdated interior/tech. RWD only. Too small and probably expensive. The only thing it has going for it is the naturally aspirated V8.

I like Lexus/Toyota and was hoping for more. Cadillac is more appealing to me in this segment now than this Lexus, they've done a great job at innovating and offering a performance package to compete with the Germans. Lexus has a lot of work to do.

There is a decent preview here:

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Words are unable to describe just how excited and happy I am to see another performance luxury car come out from Lexus. It's going to be fun, reliable, comfortable, and fantastic! Heck... if I had the moneyz... I would get it... ;D

Good job on Lexus!

I was discussing with a buddy of mine yesterday who is a hardcore Lexus fanboy (such as myself) how he might pick up the new IS500F once his lease on his IS350F runs out... The timing could not be better!

 

[BertBert2019GT]

“it’s not boring, it’s unassuming”

I want one

 

[Kamauxx]

I didn't even know the new ISs were ALL NEW until Lexus kept insisting so on one of their commercials. The car looks identical to the last generation IS.

I owned a IS250 Fsport back in 2013. The 3 or 4 months of ownership convinced me to never buy another Lexus. There was just nothing appealing about the car and I almost instantly regretted buying it.

This "new" thing they're calling a IS500 makes it look like Toyota isn't even trying anymore. I really don't understand why they insist on using that 15 year old engine in their performance cars. And if they're building this to compete with the newest offerings from M/AMG/RS mid-size sedan/coupes they've already lost (unless they're SEVERLY understating what it's capable of).

 

[SKStinger]

I didn't even know the new ISs were ALL NEW until Lexus kept insisting so on one of their commercials. The car looks identical to the last generation IS.

I owned a IS250 Fsport back in 2013. The 3 or 4 months of ownership convinced me to never buy another Lexus. There was just nothing appealing about the car and I almost instantly regretted buying it.

This "new" thing they're calling a IS500 makes it look like Toyota isn't even trying anymore. I really don't understand why they insist on using that 15 year old engine in their performance cars. And if they're building this to compete with the newest offerings from M/AMG/RS mid-size sedan/coupes they've already lost (unless they're SEVERLY understating what it's capable of).

How did you not see that they moved the swoosh LEDs up higher into the headlight housings!? Totally new. You need glasses.

 

[stoopid]

“it’s not boring, it’s unassuming”

I want one

As a sleeper, it's pretty nice. But as others have already posted - it's nothing special in the segment.

I watched the donut video last night, and while it *sounded* good and Nolan gushed a bit over the interior, neither item alone (or combined) would sell me on the car. It's going to cost (potentially much) more than the Stinger, and likely as much (or more) than faster/equally nimble rivals. Just not seeing them sell many of these, and for good reason. Like Nolan, I'm happy they made it. But like most car enthusiasts, it won't make its way into my garage.

I'm calling 2 years before it's discontinued and replaced with a performance EV.

 

[GenesisG70]

Whenever I hear Lexus I can't help it but think about middle aged women and senior citizens with grey hair driving their SUVs and bland boring sedans. The IS will NOT as sexy as the Stinger but of course I am biased, look at the rear of the new IS looks like the old Ferrari California exhaust overdone, the front looks like any other Lexus IS, looks good, nothing sexy, doubt people will turn their heads and say oh there is its the new IS but plenty of people have turned their heads when they look at the sleek sexy Stinger cuz there are not many of them.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

I didn't even know the new ISs were ALL NEW until Lexus kept insisting so on one of their commercials. The car looks identical to the last generation IS.

I owned a IS250 Fsport back in 2013. The 3 or 4 months of ownership convinced me to never buy another Lexus. There was just nothing appealing about the car and I almost instantly regretted buying it.

This "new" thing they're calling a IS500 makes it look like Toyota isn't even trying anymore. I really don't understand why they insist on using that 15 year old engine in their performance cars. And if they're building this to compete with the newest offerings from M/AMG/RS mid-size sedan/coupes they've already lost (unless they're SEVERLY understating what it's capable of).

If something is broken there is no need to fix it. A strong formula that works and is successful should not be tampered with. Perhaps that is why they are using such an old engine? It is reliable, has great longevity, and is straight-forward.

Buying a Lexus for performance as the priority of the purchase is a foolish mistake. Their vehicles are known for reliability, luxury, and comfort. Sure, they make some cars that are quick, but comparing them dollar to dollar to anything M/AMG/RS is pretty silly. They are a joke in the performance department compared to those cars. Any real enthusiast will understand that.

Also, did you not test drive your IS250F before purchasing it? I agree that car is a joke... or any of their IS200 or RC200 variants... But some people just want to be comfy and drive something for over a decade and not worry at all about anything.

Whenever I hear Lexus I can't help it but think about middle aged women and senior citizens with great white hair driving their SUVs and bland boring sedans. No IS will look as sexy as the Stinger but of course I am biased. Plus look at the rear of the new IS looks like the old Ferrari California exhaust overdone, the front looks like any other Lexus IS, looks good, nothing sexy, doubt people will turn their heads and say oh there is its the new IS but plenty of people have turned their heads when they look at the sleek sexy Stinger cuz there are not many of them.

Lmfao that is not the first time I've seen you write something like that. Why do you judge people who drive a Lexus so much? Personally, and I know I am in the minority, but I prefer the looks of the current generation ISxxx over my Stinger... But we should remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what people like is always subjective.

My buddy who is a former Marine drives an RCF (intake, exhaust, tune, a solid Stage-2 car) and he loves the Lexus brand. He was leasing a IS350 (stock) before he picked up the RCF as well. He isn't some middle-aged woman or senior citizen. One of my closest friends had a GSF WITH heavy modifications for about four years. He loved that car... and he's probably one of the most actively fit and in shape guys I've ever met in their early 30's lmfao.

Lexus makes some cool cars... LFA, ISF, GSF, RCF... sure they're not Audi or MB or BMW... but I've seen more middle-aged women driving white BMW's or darker colored Audi's in south Florida than Lexus... The senior citizens I'll agree with though... many "regular" Lexus cars are driven by senior citizens in south Florida from what I've seen...

You drive an R8. That's one of my dream cars... I got to drive a first generation V8 coupe a few years back... they're amazing cars... but I'll tell you, with the exception of the R/RS cars from Audi... I have seen many more middle-aged women or none-car enthusiasts driving Audi's than Lexus... but it doesn't take away from the R8 being one of the greatest works of art from Audi...

 

[Kamauxx]

Also, did you not test drive your IS250F before purchasing it? I agree that car is a joke... or any of their IS200 or RC200 variants... But some people just want to be comfy and drive something for over a decade and not worry at all about anything.

I test drove a different IS250 and then bought an identical one from out of state and had it shipped to me. The whole ordeal was a fluster-cluck so I won't bore you with the details but the car and dealership both let me down, bigly.

The problem with saying that car isn't meant to compete with the obvious competitors is that it's of similar size, makes similar horsepower, and will be priced similarly (probably more, definitely not less). So even if they want to claim their car isn't meant to compete with AMG/RS/M automags and buyers will certainly cross shop it with those cars.

As for the engine, I'm thinking they have a different reason for sticking with it--for some reason they are unable to build a modern performance engine for a <$100k car. Maybe they should have outsourced the engine for the IS500 to BMW like they did for the Supra.

Whatever the case, Lexus/Toyota always seem to be 10-15 years behind everyone else. If they ever make a next-gen IS500 I'm sure it'll come with a brand new TTV6 (like BMW's M3/4 engine, which has the same power output as Lexus' dinosaur, AND is 2 liters smaller or Mercedes' C63 engine that makes MORE power and is 1 liter smaller than Lexus' best competitor).

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

I test drove a different IS250 and then bought an identical one from out of state and had it shipped to me. The whole ordeal was a fluster-cluck so I won't bore you with the details but the car and dealership both let me down, bigly.

Sorry to hear that!

Everyone I know who owns a Lexus loves their car and the dealership experiences... But you're driving a Stinger and I don't think we can compare the performance of a IS250 to even a base model Stinger...

What did you switch to after getting rid of the IS250 btw?

 

[Kamauxx]

Sorry to hear that!

Everyone I know who owns a Lexus loves their car and the dealership experiences... But you're driving a Stinger and I don't think we can compare the performance of a IS250 to even a base model Stinger...

What did you switch to after getting rid of the IS250 btw?

Oh man, that's a rabbit hole. Let's see, I sold the IS250 and bought a Xterra, then another Xterra, then a Grand Cherokee, then a Altima, then a 4Runner, then a Optima, then Stinger, then a BMW, now driving a S5. I don't really hang on to cars for long but they usually last longer than 3 or 4 months like the IS.

 

[stoopid]

I probably notice more Porsches than Lexus on the road, although the math and reality is that there's likely twice as many Lexus. Their cars just don't stand out, and frankly that grille design on the front end repulses me. But they aren't designing the car with me in mind, because I've always viewed them as an overpriced 4 wheel piece of jewelry/status symbol. From a technical perspective, they're fine cars. But not worth the premium they ask (IMO). Again, I'm not in the luxury car market demographic. The $40k-something I spent on my prior car and Stinger are the absolute max my budget allows. Lexus could give AF what my poor arse thinks. Tiffany hasn't contacted me to give feedback on a new line of jewelry, either.

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Oh man, that's a rabbit hole. Let's see, I sold the IS250 and bought a Xterra, then another Xterra, then a Grand Cherokee, then a Altima, then a 4Runner, then a Optima, then Stinger, then a BMW, now driving a S5. I don't really hang on to cars for long but they usually last longer than 3 or 4 months like the IS.

Ah okay... Yeah I try to hang on if I can... I definitely plan to keep the Stinger at least for a solid decade... My family for the most part likes to hold onto our cars anywhere from five to twenty years lmfao! The majority of my older friends jump around with their rides though... To each their own!

 

[Wan El Guapo]

Im intrigued by the IS500. Sure its not an ISF but its not meant to be. Its the mid-range performance machine, similar tier to the m340 or c43. I know it'll be slower, but if it drives well enough and makes a great sound, id seriously consider it. Just the sound of the v8 will be enough for me. I dont need to win 0-60 at stop lights. If i did, id get a Tesla model3 performance. The v8 and the Lexus quality, means it'll hold value, and likely low numbers. The original ISFs, 2008 is still in the mid-20k range $CAD. And if i trade in the stinger, i definitely wont miss the Kia dealership experience. Just saying, im looking. If it came in a manual id be all over it. You just cant get that combo in 2021.

 

[YEH]

With the IS F-Sport Performance, Toyota is trying to squeeze even penny from their NA V8 - which appeals to traditionalists (RWD +NA V8) and those who prioritize reliability over outright performance.

Toyota could have put in the TTV6 that's in the LS500 - which would have offered better performance, but that would have required more $$/engineering work (work for the V8 had already been done for the IS-F).

FWD Lexus model vastly outsell the RWD ones, much less the F (and now F-Sport Performance), which is why Toyota isn't investing heavily in their RWD ICE models (esp. as they don't sell either in Japan).

Reason why Genesis continues to invest so much in RWD ICE is because the Korean market is big enough to support it (Genesis should sell around 150k in Korea this year, which is probably more than what Acura will sell in the US for 2021).

One of the reasons why the Stinger's continuity is tenuous is because it doesn't sell in any significant volume in Korea.

 

[Kamauxx]

Toyota could have put in the TTV6 that's in the LS500 - which would have offered better performance, but that would have required more $$/engineering work (work for the V8 had already been done for the IS-F).

Their TTV6 is even less powerful than their NA V8, though. I suppose they could alter the software to make more but that would probably sacrifice long term reliability.

I guess they did what makes the best sense for them, it just makes no sense to me. Granted, I'm a softcore Lexus hater.

 

[Wan El Guapo]

With the IS F-Sport Performance, Toyota is trying to squeeze even penny from their NA V8 - which appeals to traditionalists (RWD +NA V8) and those who prioritize reliability over outright performance.

Toyota could have put in the TTV6 that's in the LS500 - which would have offered better performance, but that would have required more $$/engineering work (work for the V8 had already been done for the IS-F).

FWD Lexus model vastly outsell the RWD ones, much less the F (and now F-Sport Performance), which is why Toyota isn't investing heavily in their RWD ICE models (esp. as they don't sell either in Japan).

Reason why Genesis continues to invest so much in RWD ICE is because the Korean market is big enough to support it (Genesis should sell around 150k in Korea this year, which is probably more than what Acura will sell in the US for 2021).

One of the reasons why the Stinger's continuity is tenuous is because it doesn't sell in any significant volume in Korea.

I realize this exists because its parts bin. Even if the v6tt had more power its less appealing to me. Lexus is going after a niche but it cost them next to nothing to develop so why not? Hopefully they price it right.