Lets talk tuning, piggy back vs ECU flash.

[Terry@BMS]

Is that what you use to justify the no response from the BBB reviews? Too busy?

We don't subscribe or use BBB, so if people are complaining there they are not likely to get a reply from us. Looks like some guy in 2017 complained his order did not include an OBDII splitter (ironic given we're talking about them in this thread), and some other guy who didn't want to buy the JB4 mobile add on for $140? I remember in 2015 some guy swore a JB4 damaged his ECU. It didn't. He just got suckered out of an ECU at his dealer and wanted us to pay for his mistake.

We're a large company and have people here who's job it is to field complaints and make customers happy. Sometimes they are busy. Normally, with shipping or back order related issues. It's not possible to make every customer happy under every scenario but we try. Every now and again we get a customer who goes off on some rant and the first thing they do is go and complain anywhere they can. Just part of the business. But compare what you read about us with what you read about John here. It's amazing to me he's still in business.

 

[Terry@BMS]

Just last weekend we had a post about a JB4 customer who then recanted everything he ever had on his car.
Terry just admitted to cracking a plug xx number of days after he started working on it, blamed it on the factory spark plugs, lol.

Just admitted? I posted the day it happened with a photo, lol. And got to work sourcing and testing Denso spark plugs for our customers which have become a plug of choice for this community now. No more $25 per plug bullshit with those HKS plugs you sell. And when customers had issues setting gapping properly we release our own gapping tool and magnetic plug socket for them.

If there is some unavoidable weakness with factory turbos, which I highly doubt given how many Stingers are tuned, we'll design maps to minimize the risk and work with Pure, Vargas, RB, etc, to design and test better turbos.

 

[Kamauxx]

I really had to hold back from passively insulting the guy as he's a customer after all. And probably just doesn't know better. But sometimes I wonder about these people though. I chalk it up to being within 100 miles of JohnB as he has that effect on everyone around him.

You must realize you're just as bad as he is, right (he just wins for shadiest tuner TODAY)? Both of you have die-hard fans who refuse to acknowledge the unprofessional ways you behave. Neither of you have done yourselves any favors in this tit-for-tat. You both come across as shady.

 

[Terry@BMS]

You must realize you're just as bad as he is, right (he just wins for shadiest tuner TODAY)? Both of you have die-hard fans who refuse to acknowledge the unprofessional ways you behave. Neither of you have done yourselves any favors in this tit-for-tat. You both come across as shady.

I strongly disagree. There are a few around here who are knowledgeable and with enough critical thinking skills to see there is no equivalence to our behavior here. I'm simply cleaning up false and misleading statements he continues to make about our product. If I throw a barb his way every now and again it's 1/10th of what I'd say if I didn't stop myself.

 

[brancky3]

I think it was stole their product design, fit and, function, but the post is there just look up "burger unethical vendor" in Google or check out his BBB

I read that thread and it's pretty ironic. Even if it was true, the guy's design wasn't patented, the photos didn't have any sort of watermark, etc... There's no grounds for any sort of legal recourse in any way. Yes stealing a product design would be a shitty thing to do but clutch stops aren't an Earth shattering invention by any means. This literally happens all the time - maybe you should Google John's other failed business hpfpupgrade.com which is basically a copied design which never was successful

 

[Terry@BMS]

I read that thread and it's pretty ironic. Even if it was true, the guy's design wasn't patented, the photos didn't have any sort of watermark, etc... There's no grounds for any sort of legal recourse in any way. Yes stealing a product design would be a shitty thing to do but clutch stops aren't an Earth shattering invention by any means. This literally happens all the time - maybe you should Google John's other failed business hpfpupgrade.com which is basically a copied design which never was successful

The story with that guy was we both went to the same hardware isle at home depot and found a stopper that fit as a clutch stop. He emailed me also, I showed him a photo of the stopper on my car before he ever started selling his stopper. Then some idiot over here accidentally used a photo from one of his posts in one of our listings, which was our bad and I told him that, and the guy melted down. Oh well water under the bridge now. It was 2012.

 

[TorkMe]

Well this turned very sour, very quick.

Terry... I am going to step away from this now. It seems to be getting a little to personal for you, and the insults are coming at an alarming rate.

I will say this, I am under no obligation to help you. If you want PID's... you can take that 2 decades of experience and find them for yourself. Or, you can go buy a DAMOS file, so we can at least pretend that you know what you are doing. Multiple times now, I have asked you to provide me any proof, even a single map or transfer file system spinet of information, you have refused. I have asked you multiple times to post factual maps from the KIA ECU, you have refused and fight back with posting BMW map indexes. This does nothing for the community, and honestly I cannot I have remained in a debate with you for this long.

You don't have to like me, and honestly, I prefer it that way. But, dude... the insults and accusations and talking down to this whole community if they do not agree with you, seriously?

Bud, we are simply going to have to agree to dissagree and let the results speak for themselves. If you can do this, then we will have a great rivalry that will benefit everyone in this community. Your witty banter and insults thrown at me do nothing to me, I am a rock. Nothing that gets said online bothers me anymore, I have heard it all If you wish to continue down this rabbit hole, you do so on your own accord.

 

[KLR STINGER]

Quite hard to PROVE anything since most will remove the jb4 and act like they have no idea why the issues they had occurred. Like I said so far there have people who have had issues and they have had the jb4 installed. Issues that can arise from over boosting, too much boost. Shitty plugs, lack of gap etc... how many people have had ANY engine issues with ECU tunes be it Tork or Pressertech????

So it's hard to prove, but you claim it every chance you get? Way to join the credibility club champ !

Maybe you should watch the several videos in John's early days where he was dealing with spark break up, hence his video changing and gaping plugs. In fact he only did that After I posted a lengthy post on the subject, identifying the issue wasnt "bad" plugs or coils like people were suggesting in the early days, but in fact was due to an OEM gap that was too large for boost. Tonka Bob had blow out issues at the track because " they forgot to gap the plugs down to .028". You really haven't a clue.

 

[DaJackson]

Well this turned very sour, very quick.

Terry... I am going to step away from this now. It seems to be getting a little to personal for you, and the insults are coming at an alarming rate.

I will say this, I am under no obligation to help you. If you want PID's... you can take that 2 decades of experience and find them for yourself. Or, you can go buy a DAMOS file, so we can at least pretend that you know what you are doing. Multiple times now, I have asked you to provide me any proof, even a single map or transfer file system spinet of information, you have refused. I have asked you multiple times to post factual maps from the KIA ECU, you have refused and fight back with posting BMW map indexes. This does nothing for the community, and honestly I cannot I have remained in a debate with you for this long.

You don't have to like me, and honestly, I prefer it that way. But, dude... the insults and accusations and talking down to this whole community if they do not agree with you, seriously?

Bud, we are simply going to have to agree to dissagree and let the results speak for themselves. If you can do this, then we will have a great rivalry that will benefit everyone in this community. Your witty banter and insults thrown at me do nothing to me, I am a rock. Nothing that gets said online bothers me anymore, I have heard it all If you wish to continue down this rabbit hole, you do so on your own accord.

How about this. Since you seem to have trouble sticking to your promises of walking away from this. I’ll give you a one day ban if you reply to him.

Would that help?

 

[Tonkabob]

I find it funny and ironic all the piggyback guys rag on John for not being up on plug insulators cracking when

So it's hard to prove, but you claim it every chance you get? Way to join the credibility club champ !

Maybe you should watch the several videos in John's early days where he was dealing with spark break up, hence his video changing and gaping plugs. In fact he only did that After I posted a lengthy post on the subject, identifying the issue wasnt "bad" plugs or coils like people were suggesting in the early days, but in fact was due to an OEM gap that was too large for boost. Tonka Bob had blow out issues at the track because " they forgot to gap the plugs down to .028". You really haven't a clue.

Not true. We regapped and i went back to the track on the same day and same problem. It was a new tune and a short time line as it was the last day the track was open. ( in hind sight i didnt describe the symptoms well)
Problem was overboost on shifts, now fixed, and Terry has seen and fixed this as well. Now i'm back to .026 with Densos. Jury is still out on the densos. More later.
Was trying to avoid the cold bogs with hks 40s at a tight .022 and densos do the same at .026 being 2 steps colder rather than 1. Magic wand id take my hks 40s at .028 again. But ill try the densos a bit longer.

 

[Kamauxx]

I find it funny and ironic some of the piggyback guys rag on John for not being up on plug insulators cracking when

FTFY

No vendor has my loyalty.

 

[TwinSnails]

@Tonkabob which Densos you running, mine are about 1 step colder than stock....

 

[Terry@BMS]

FWIW I've had absolutely zero issues with the Denso 5346 plugs at 0.022". Installed them when we started JB4 development and never a misfire, issue, rough idle, or anything with them. Pulled the driver side plugs the other week just to check for signs of wear given the aggressive mapping we use, and they looked pristine.

Would be very interested to hear about any issues.

 

[Sabz]

Who said anything about not gapping them. This person did gap them, and they broke.

Spark plugs do not break from the size of the gap that is on them. Here is some information from NGK about plug damage:

"The engine starts knocking or detonation occurs, the temperature of the combustion gas will rise sharply and the plug, piston and valves will overheat. Overheating of the plug causes the center electrode to expand, and this can break the insulation."

Some cars don't even run a gap, they just ark to the top of the piston... so that can only mean one thing. Detonation or pre-ignition.

I didn't expect this to become a learning thread about tuning and vehicle performance, but... I will go there if that is what the community wants.

I was simply under the impression your tune required new plugs and that they needed to be gapped smaller... did you change out the stock ones then in your shop car?

 

[Tonkabob]

@Tonkabob which Densos you running, mine are about 1 step colder than stock....

I'm running the ones BMS recommends and their site says 2 steps. Denso 5346
I pulled a few and couldnt expand the gap so found some at napa on a sunday.
On the bright side its a 30- 45 min job leaving the intake on.

 

[Tonkabob]

FWIW I've had absolutely zero issues with the Denso 5346 plugs at 0.022". Installed them when we started JB4 development and never a misfire, issue, rough idle, or anything with them. Pulled the driver side plugs the other week just to check for signs of wear given the aggressive mapping we use, and they looked pristine.

Would be very interested to hear about any issues.

I installed mine on Sunday at .026 and pulled out of my drive way on monday morning and bogged under light load.
Did some 0-60 runs and hit the occasional cold tranny cut out on launch with LC and AH. But the tranny wasnt cold and i never had cut out with AH before. And today it wasnt occasional and happened on every LC attempt. Cut was so bad it wouldn't recover until i let off the throttle. I'm hoping i just have amazing larger gap torque and am hitting a torque limit. But so far not looking good for the Densos unless it is Torque limits and they are amazing.
Not many piggies are hitting 1.87 60 foots or 3.87 0-60 so maybe this plug isnt an hks alternative.

 

[TwinSnails]

I'm running the ones BMS recommends and their site says 2 steps. Denso 5346
I pulled a few and couldnt expand the gap so found some at napa on a sunday.
On the bright side its a 30- 45 min job leaving the intake on.

The 5346 is heat range 8 plug and the stock is 7... now there is a slight discrepancy in their measurements, but it’s closer to the 8.1 ish range than a 9.

 

[TwinSnails]

I installed mine on Sunday at .026 and pulled out of my drive way on monday morning and bogged under light load.
Did some 0-60 runs and hit the occasional cold tranny cut out on launch with LC and AH. But the tranny wasnt cold and i never had cut out with AH before. Cut was so bad it wouldn't recover until i let off the throttle. I'm hoping i just have amazing larger gap torque and am hitting a torque limit. But so far not looking good for the Densos unless it is Torque limits and they are amazing.

If your tune is increasing dwell time then you might not have needed the Densos or HKS’.... .028 on the stock plugs was stated as fine earlier.... you might to widen the gap back to .028.

I’ve had better idling and less power surge from the Densos at .022 compared to stock. I would say that the 5346’s resulted in smoother but less responsive throttle inputs.

 

[Tonkabob]

The 5346 is heat range 8 plug and the stock is 7... now there is a slight discrepancy in their measurements, but it’s closer to the 8.1 ish range than a 9.

Good to know. I was going off the BMS description. Its only been a day so hoping for better cold perf or ill go back to the hks 40s at .026 or .028

 

[brancky3]

I find it funny and ironic all the piggyback guys rag on John for not being up on plug insulators cracking when ...

That's not it - it's the fact that he posts that JB4 is cracking electrodes... And then multiple people said it's not the electrode that is cracking but rather the part the coilpack connects to... and he completely ignored it in multiple posts and continues saying JB4 is cracking electrodes. Which isn't true.