Lets talk tuning, piggy back vs ECU flash.

[DaBears4Lyfe]

....

Sooooo what about a thorough diagnostic by Kia Corporate?

Could they can take the time it takes for the car to accelerate based on speed or rpm rise over time and determine how much power it takes to accelerate the known mass of the car in the known amount of time.

Actually I dont really care. I wasted a ton of energy in this. Like you said JB4s are 100% stealth your customer will never have to worry about warranty issues arising from a the jb4.

 

[Terry@BMS]

....

Sooooo what about a thorough diagnostic by Kia Corporate?

Could they can take the time it takes for the car to accelerate based on speed or rpm rise over time and determine how much power it takes to accelerate the known mass of the car in the known amount of time.

No not plausibly. Because, they have no way of knowing whether you had traction, was racing down a hill, etc. It would be a real stretch. For example if you spin the tires the car can do 0-60mph in 2 seconds according to the data.

I believe they do monitor time under heavy throttle and might be able to infer you were racing the car, and then combined with say evidence of track use like rubber under the fenders deny coverage based on that, but it would be a stretch for them. In theory they could go after you for having non-factory spark plugs but in this case Magnuson Moss would probably cover you, using a non-OEM replacement part. On other platforms I've seen warranty denied because the downpipe flanges on the factory downpipes showed signs of tampering and they inferred aftermarket parts had been installed and removed. It's a common technique dealers use to deny.

There are certainly risks to modifying and racing your vehicle. Sometimes shit breaks and if it breaks from you operating outside of factory specifications you should pay for the repairs. But be aware of the diagnostic foot print left behind with the different tuning techniques is quite different.

 

[sting me]

Man I've missed car forums...

So, here's a TL;DR of everything so far in this thread, minus the attitude.

The current flash tunes have the capability of being more complex and capable beyond the levels of what can be achieved with the current piggyback tunes, from a technical perspective. The piggyback tunes are cheaper and easier to implement, and are user-removable. Both methods of tuning are technically possible to detect in software, though it's far more likely that the effects of a piggyback tune will go unnoticed than a flash tune. Both methods of tuning from the two most popular tuning companies have yielded arguably similar performance judging by the numbers that they have currently released. Both report large gains are still available and are under development. No one has posted any definitive evidence of a conservative tune from either company destroying factory components (engine internals, turbos, etc).

Just buy whatever you want and be happy that you're driving a tuned Stinger and not a stock Rio.

 

[DaBears4Lyfe]

Man I've missed car forums...

So, here's a TL;DR of everything so far in this thread, minus the attitude.

The current flash tunes have the capability of being more complex and capable beyond the levels of what can be achieved with the current piggyback tunes, from a technical perspective. The piggyback tunes are cheaper and easier to implement, and are user-removable. Both methods of tuning are technically possible to detect in software, though it's far more likely that the effects of a piggyback tune will go unnoticed than a flash tune. Both methods of tuning from the two most popular tuning companies have yielded arguably similar performance judging by the numbers that they have currently released. Both report large gains are still available and are under development. No one has posted any definitive evidence of a conservative tune from either company destroying factory components (engine internals, turbos, etc).

Welcome to the forum. Congrats on your Stinger Besides the ECU tune v Piggyback debate everything else is really calm around here.

 

[sting me]

Welcome to the forum. Congrats on your Stinger Besides the ECU tune v Piggyback debate everything else is really calm around here.

Thanks! Haha yeah, it seems pretty chill. Every forum has at least ONE of these threads.

People just need to concentrate on their product and their customer service (which is seriously just as important as the product) and stop letting their ego get in the way of business.

 

[Sales@Tork]

Fake news. A properly implemented piggyback can't be detected at the software level by nature of how they have to be designed to function. And I've outlined the numerous various ways flash maps are detected. In terms of diagnostic invisibility it's really a moot discussion at this point as we're just repeating the same points. I'm confident as more time passes people will find my arguments on the subject based on fact and yours based on marketing.

Changing your story now? is it nearly impossible? Difficult? Or cant be detected? Terry please just stop

 

[sting me]

Changing your story now? is it nearly impossible? Difficult? Or cant be detected? Terry please just stop

 

[Terry@BMS]

Changing your story now? is it nearly impossible? Difficult? Or cant be detected? Terry please just stop

There is no contradiction in any of my statements on the subject but I do think your reading comprehension needs a little work.

 

[sting me]

Y'all should just change the thread title from "Flash vs Piggy Back tunes" to "Tork slings crap at BMS until they come to blows". Might as well call it like you see it

 

[Sabz]

Who gives a sh*t, tuning is tuning... it’s going to be a risk whatever route you take ... post something we can actually learn or don’t post ...

 

[DaJackson]

Changing your story now? is it nearly impossible? Difficult? Or cant be detected? Terry please just stop

Didn't you say something yesterday about not engaging in this anymore? or are you still trying to take the "high road"?

 

[Tonkabob]

I haven't done the fuel wire splice but can't the dealer see that unless you replace the wiring harness?

 

[JP's_Stinger]

Didn't you say something yesterday about not engaging in this anymore? or are you still trying to take the "high road"?

THIS! That is EXACTLY what I was going to reply! I totally loss all respect for these guys's company just because of how they conduct themselves in here and how they engage with people. Good job, Tork. Way to do business I work in the financial market and let me tell you that this aspect of business is heavily scrutinised when evaluating the "general health" of a company. I sure do steer clear of those type of behavior from business owners in my investments.

Anyhow, as I previously stated, neither side will nor can win, because you're more focus on winning than moving the discussion forward for our Stinger community. It's a shame, really...

 

[Kamauxx]

I haven't done the fuel wire splice but can't the dealer see that unless you replace the wiring harness?

Are you talking about with the JB4? If so it uses a posi-tap instead of splicing. Once removed the factory insulation sleeve covers the part of the harness that it was tapped into.

 

[Tonkabob]

Are you talking about with the JB4? If so it uses a posi-tap instead of splicing. Once removed the factory insulation sleeve covers the part of the harness that it was tapped into.

Any piggy back i guess. My word splice was not that accurate but if you peel back the insulation can you see where the posi-tap connected?

 

[Kamauxx]

Any piggy back i guess. My word splice was not that accurate but if you peel back the insulation can you see where the posi-tap connected?

Probably. I've never looked but I'd assume a little piece of copper would be visible. Maybe if they inspected it with a light and magnifying glass...or knew exactly where/what to look for.

 

[Terry@BMS]

I haven't done the fuel wire splice but can't the dealer see that unless you replace the wiring harness?

The posi-tap attaches under the sleeve so when it snaps back it covers the pin hole. If you ever had to it's on the O2 sensor side of the harness so could always replace the O2 sensor.

 

[brancky3]

Man I've missed car forums...

So, here's a TL;DR of everything so far in this thread, minus the attitude.

The current flash tunes have the capability of being more complex and capable beyond the levels of what can be achieved with the current piggyback tunes, from a technical perspective. .

While this is technically true to what the flash tunes can modify (torque limits, etc) there is no proof at this current time that it's more "advanced" or "achieving more". The piggybacks don't need to modify torque limits because the ECU thinks it's at stock torque still (see Terry's reply about this).

If anything, Terry's JB4 car with intakes and E30 is making more power than Torks "5 month old tune" with full bolt ons and 92/93 octane (Terry has faster trap speeds). 1/4 mile ETs are lower with the Tork cars because for one, there's an AWD car, who can actually launch without spinning) posting times and for two, Torks run was done at a real track so he probably had better traction for a better launch compared to the Dragy times which struggle on unprepped surfaces.

 

[Tonkabob]

While this is technically true to what the flash tunes can modify (torque limits, etc) there is no proof at this current time that it's more "advanced" or "achieving more". The piggybacks don't need to modify torque limits because the ECU thinks it's at stock torque still (see Terry's reply about this).

If anything, Terry's JB4 car with intakes and E30 is making more power than Torks "5 month old tune" with full bolt ons and 92/93 octane (Terry has faster trap speeds). 1/4 mile ETs are lower with the Tork cars because for one, there's an AWD car, who can actually launch without spinning) posting times and for two, Torks run was done at a real track so he probably had better traction for a better launch compared to the Dragy times which struggle on unprepped surfaces.

And after all that, mod for mod the current ecu tune looks to be .2- .3 faster than lap3 or jb4. Ask klr, locke and turbokits.com

 

[Ritz]

There are certainly risks to modifying and racing your vehicle. Sometimes shit breaks and if it breaks from you operating outside of factory specifications you should pay for the repairs. But be aware of the diagnostic foot print left behind with the different tuning techniques is quite different.

The bottom line is that you should just assume zero warranty coverage if you're modifying your car's drivetrain. Some folks are able to sneak the mods through and others are gratuitously denied. Life is too short for me to spend more than 10 seconds wagging my finger at a dealership employee about "my rights under the Magnuson Moss act." I just don't give a crap. If I mod one of my new vehicles, I expect to man up if I break it and deal with the consequences. I guess that makes me one of the "I don't care if I can hide it" proponents.

Cheers!