Is 17,000 Units success ............I would say yes........vs BMW , Audi and Lexus

[Jimmer]

So, you're the guy that bought one... Must be among the worst marketed cars ever. The dealer here had one that languished in the showroom for a couple of years, just taking up space. Just curious, how was the K900?

I don't think the Stinger was marketed well either. I've seen a commercial on TV for it maybe 3 times (unless you count the XMAS commercial where it is with all the other vehicles in the KIA lineup...all in white ). I had never heard of it or read anything about it until after I saw it in person last February when I was buying the Sorento.

 

[CaliSting]

I think you’re missing the point, the Stinger changes people's view of KIA, making it a halo car.

I don’t think it’s going to happen. Just as the Subaru SVX didn’t change people’s perceptions of Subaru. Or incredible Mitsubishi 3000 GT didn’t change perceptions of Mitsubishi in Us. Look where Mitsubishi is now. Or Mazda 929 V6 sedan didn’t change perceptions of Mazda effectively. . Heck Mazda only makes 4 cylinder cars now. Takes far more than a Luke warm halo car to change perceptions of a brand.

Kia has strong brand recognition as low cost high value vehicles. That’s a good place to play for them. Don’t think Stinger is going to change US public perception of Kia brand in general. I think if anything Kia is hoping they can instill some longer term brand loyalty by getting all those Soul buyers into more grown up cars but it doesn’t seem that most Kia owners are brand loyal.

 

[westcoastGT]

I don’t think it’s going to happen. Just as the Subaru SVX didn’t change people’s perceptions of Subaru. Or incredible Mitsubishi 3000 GT didn’t change perceptions of Mitsubishi in Us. Look where Mitsubishi is now. Or Mazda 929 V6 sedan didn’t change perceptions of Mazda effectively. . Heck Mazda only makes 4 cylinder cars now. Takes far more than a Luke warm halo car to change perceptions of a brand.

Kia has strong brand recognition as low cost high value vehicles. That’s a good place to play for them. Don’t think Stinger is going to change US public perception of Kia brand in general. I think if anything Kia is hoping they can instill some longer term brand loyalty by getting all those Soul buyers into more grown up cars but it doesn’t seem that most Kia owners are brand loyal.

 

[Flameangel]

I think you’re missing the point, the Stinger changes people's view of KIA, making it a halo car.

yes, your right, it is marketed here as the kia's " flagship ", it may well help pull curious people in to the Kia showroom to take a look. If a Stinger is not for them, there are other models to look at.It may just get people to consider purchasing a " kia" that normally may not do so.

 

[Jimmer]

I believe this car has been a success. Not only is it an awesome car, it's sold pretty well for a new type of vehicle for the brand.

 

[Tonkabob]

GTR is a hand built super car that sells for well over $100k. It’s won racing series over the entire world and very well known . Documentaries done on the car. Nissan Motorsport division is a big part of Nissans brand image. They use GTR race cars as part of their company brand across the world.

Hard to compare mass produced Stinger to GTR as a “halo” car.

When Kia make Stinger Coupe with 500 Hp that competes in Le Mans I’ll be there with Halo car. Stinger as it sits is just a cool GT sedan but not a halo car. I’d argue a Soul and hamsters get more people into Kia dealers than obscure Stinger.

My kia with a few mods is faster than a stock GTR so i am good.

 

[Tonkabob]

Yes funny for gtr's getting beat by a stinger!

 

[YEH]

The Canadian sales numbers might be posted on this forum already. Thought I read about them a while back. An electric version sounds interesting. Curious what the performance will be but not sure Kia would be the brand i'd choose for my first electric vehicle...

Maybe a hybrid variant (need it for Europe and its domestic market); really haven't heard of Kia thinking of doing a full electric.

As for H/K electrics, the Kona EV and Niro EV have gotten rave reviews and H/K basically can't keep up demand.

Norway, itself, had 20k people interested in ordering one (over 7k orders and Hyundai stopped accepting orders as that was already well past Norway's allocation.

With Australia being a small population these are the figures posted, Kia projected about 2-2.5k Stinger sales for the first year in OZ & as they fell short it is now confirmed by some as an abject failure.

Yes and no.

While the Stinger missed its overall targeted sales figure, it hit it out of the park when it came to ATP.

Kia thought that the 2.0T would be the volume seller, but over 92% of buyers opted for the 3.3T, of which most purchased the top trim and many, the bi-modal exhaust upgrade.

Many buyers had to wait months for their Stinger as Kia didn't anticipate such a demand for the 3.3T.

Now, Kia needs to increase sales of the base model, but that likely won't really happen until the upgrade to the 2.5T engine.

Something Kia forgets is luxury cars are ...well luxury purchases. Nothing says you have made it to status of luxury car purschase like a Kia. ...not

This is why all well established manufactures create luxury divisions. GM has Cadillac , Ford has Lincoln, Toyota has Lexus, Nissan has Infiniti . VW has Audi and Porsche. Fiat has Ferrari and Alfa.

And yet, the Stinger (16,806) handily outsold the Giulia (11,519), the ATS (10,860), the XE (4,704).

And in many parts of the world, Infinitis are sold as Nissans (including Japan) and Acuras sold as Hondas (including the Honda NSX).

Lexus used to be sold as Toyotas in Japan and the entire Lexus brand (in Japan) is outsold by the Toyota Crown series (Toyota's luxury sedan lineup).

The Stinger outsells Infiniti's entire car lineup in Europe and in Germany, outsells the entire Lexus car lineup.

Genesis hasn’t really proven itself as a true luxury brand yet. Their cars are viewed as discounted luxuary cars. Again another fail as most luxury buyers don’t want people to think “oh the Jones bought one of those cheap luxury cars”. Lol

Infiniti, Acura and even Lexus are seen as discounted luxury (can also add the domestics and even Audi).

 

[YEH]

Kia is going to need to do several things to prevent a significant decline in Stinger sales, if not increase sales in several important overseas markets.

One would be the upgrade of the base engine to the 2.5T and the addition of a hybrid variant (even if it's a mild hybrid).

While the US market is the most important in the Stinger seeing another generation, increasing sales in Korea would help.

The G70 has been selling over 1k the past few months in Korea, whereas Stinger sales have fallen below 400 monthly.

 

[Stinger GT SS]

Yes and no.

While the Stinger missed its overall targeted sales figure, it hit it out of the park when it came to ATP.

Kia thought that the 2.0T would be the volume seller, but over 92% of buyers opted for the 3.3T, of which most purchased the top trim and many, the bi-modal exhaust upgrade.

Many buyers had to wait months for their Stinger as Kia didn't anticipate such a demand for the 3.3T.

Now, Kia needs to increase sales of the base model, but that likely won't really happen until the upgrade to the 2.5T engine.

Totally agree with your comments @YEH, FYI I was being facetious in my comment about the car being an “abject failure”...this was aimed at the haters of this car that lurk here on the forum like garden slugs that wait until it gets dark, then to come out & try to destroy all the positives that normal people have put into the forum to make an enjoyable place to visit.

 

[CaliSting]

And yet, the Stinger (16,806) handily outsold the Giulia (11,519), the ATS (10,860), the XE (4,704).

And in many parts of the world, Infinitis are sold as Nissans (including Japan) and Acuras sold as Hondas (including the Honda NSX).

Lexus used to be sold as Toyotas in Japan and the entire Lexus brand (in Japan) is outsold by the Toyota Crown series (Toyota's luxury sedan lineup).

The Stinger outsells Infiniti's entire car lineup in Europe and in Germany, outsells the entire Lexus car lineup.


Infiniti, Acura and even Lexus are seen as discounted luxury (can also add the domestics and even Audi).

Fake news!

Something you missed is Alfa doesn't have much of a presence in the US and sill sold almost as many Giulias as Stingers here in US against huge Kia dealer network across the US. Alfa smashed Stinger Sales in Europe by thousands of Giulia units. Kia isn't even selling 300 units a month across Europe now. Cadillac sold twice as many CTS sedans in Europe than Stingers. Europeans are voting with their feet and leaving Stinger for dead and still choosing favored European models. Not to mention stinger is dead in China while all other luxury cars are doing very well there including Caddy's.

For cars that are sold under parent company branding often they aren't marketed as luxury cars. That's definitely the case in Europe with Nissan. Cars are equipped differently to meet market demand. Nissan like Kia has struggled to break into European luxury markets. Europeans are much less excepting of Kia as a luxury car for sure. In Japan its more of a cost thing and not as much need to differentiate separate luxury brand as Japanese have always had top end luxury cars from Toyota and Nissan. Similar to Kia and Hyundai in Korea selling luxury cars domestically.

Id argue Lexus is far from "cheap" luxury car now. Yes they have some value entries but still offer cars that compete with Mercedes very much on merit not price. They were very effective at making a standalone luxury product that competes head on with Mercedes and have you looked at prices of Lexus lately? Not cheap! ....several cars with starting prices over $80K going into $100K with options. Let me know when Kia starts selling cars north of $80K USD in US. LOL! Hell they can barely get $40K for top of line GT2 Stingers these days after all discounts they have to offer to close a sale.

 

[westcoastGT]

Fake news!

Something you missed is Alfa doesn't have much of a presence in the US and sill sold almost as many Giulias as Stingers here in US against huge Kia dealer network across the US. Alfa smashed Stinger Sales in Europe by thousands of Giulia units. Kia isn't even selling 300 units a month across Europe now. Cadillac sold twice as many CTS sedans in Europe than Stingers. Europeans are voting with their feet and leaving Stinger for dead and still choosing favored European models. Not to mention stinger is dead in China while all other luxury cars are doing very well there including Caddy's.

For cars that are sold under parent company branding often they aren't marketed as luxury cars. That's definitely the case in Europe with Nissan. Cars are equipped differently to meet market demand. Nissan like Kia has struggled to break into European luxury markets. Europeans are much less excepting of Kia as a luxury car for sure. In Japan its more of a cost thing and not as much need to differentiate separate luxury brand as Japanese have always had top end luxury cars from Toyota and Nissan. Similar to Kia and Hyundai in Korea selling luxury cars domestically.

Id argue Lexus is far from "cheap" luxury car now. Yes they have some value entries but still offer cars that compete with Mercedes very much on merit not price. They were very effective at making a standalone luxury product that competes head on with Mercedes and have you looked at prices of Lexus lately? Not cheap! ....several cars with starting prices over $80K going into $100K with options. Let me know when Kia starts selling cars north of $80K USD in US. LOL! Hell they can barely get $40K for top of line GT2 Stingers these days after all discounts they have to offer to close a sale.

 

[Jonathan Lasich]

GTR is a hand built super car that sells for well over $100k. It’s won racing series over the entire world and very well known . Documentaries done on the car. Nissan Motorsport division is a big part of Nissans brand image. They use GTR race cars as part of their company brand across the world.

Hard to compare mass produced Stinger to GTR as a “halo” car.

When Kia make Stinger Coupe with 500 Hp that competes in Le Mans I’ll be there with Halo car. Stinger as it sits is just a cool GT sedan but not a halo car. I’d argue a Soul and hamsters get more people into Kia dealers than obscure Stinger.

When I owned my 2010 GT-R, it garnered a LOT of attention, but by only a very small and select demographic. Young guys that played Gran Turismo. Either people knew ALL about it, or absolutely nothing about it. A kid who couldn't be more than 10-11 years old went absolutely bonkers when he walked behind the car as it was parked in the hospital parking lot. I was walking toward the car when the kid literally started yelling "OMG, I can't believe it!!! A REAL, LIVE GT-R!! OMG, I can't believe it!! A REAL GT-R!!

Yet, at the gas station fuelling the car with several guys around the car admiring it when an elderly gentleman pulls up to the pump beside me in an older Mustang (225 HP) version, and seeing the guys around my car asks out loud what the fuss was all about. Asked me what kind of car it was---heard only "NISSAN" and said "What's the big deal? It's just a NISSAN!!" When the owner of a BMW M3, who was one of the admirers, said "it's a really fast sports car". The old guy asked "How many cylinders does it have?". I answered "6". The old guy responded "Oh man, what's the big deal? My car's faster than that one. It has 8 cylinders!". I thought the Bimmer driver was going to pop a vessel when he heard that!!

Not long after that, another older gentleman walking by my car asked me what it was while he was looking AT THE BACK OF THE CAR RIGHT At BOTH THE NISSAN AND THE GT-R BADGES!! I told him it was a Nissan GT-R and he responded that he had no idea what that was. I told him "It's a Japanese Ferrari", to which he replied "I had no idea Ferraris were made in Japan".

I don't think that even as a true HALO car, it didn't do much for elevating the Nissan brand except for a select few.

With the Stinger, people immediately recognize the KIA badge, and either can't believe that a KIA could look so mean, or they mistake it for a "NEW" Optima. I think the Stinger is a better marketing tool for Kia than the GT-R was for NISSAN.

Our local Kia dealer sold three Stingers within a month last summer, to me and two other locals. Since we've been driving around town, according to him, he's had a considerable number of people coming into the dealership enquiring about the car. No additional Stinger sales (I guess $50K is still too much for a KIA), but they end up buying another KIA.

 

[Kamauxx]

I told him "It's a Japanese Ferrari", to which he replied "I had no idea Ferraris were made in Japan".

Golden!

And this is why I hate talking to randoms about cars.

 

[YEH]

Fake news!

Something you missed is Alfa doesn't have much of a presence in the US and sill sold almost as many Giulias as Stingers here in US against huge Kia dealer network across the US. Alfa smashed Stinger Sales in Europe by thousands of Giulia units. Kia isn't even selling 300 units a month across Europe now. Cadillac sold twice as many CTS sedans in Europe than Stingers. Europeans are voting with their feet and leaving Stinger for dead and still choosing favored European models. Not to mention stinger is dead in China while all other luxury cars are doing very well there including Caddy's.

Alfa did NOT sell almost as many Giulias as Stingers.

16,806 vs. 11,519 is not an insignificant delta.

The Giulia did 68% of the Stinger's volume, and the Stinger, unlike the Giulia, was still ramping up supply early in 2018.

The Giulia only broke the 1k sales barrier for 3 months in 2018 (only did it twice in 2017).

The Stinger surpassed the 1k sales mark for every month in 2018.

Haven't really followed Giulia sales overall, but don't think it's a big seller in Europe (outside of maybe Italy).

Back in July of last year, the Stinger outsold pretty much everything in Germany that wasn't a BMW, MB, or Audi in its size segment.

Stinger - 107
Giulia - 78
XE - 77
IS - 20
ATS - 14
Q50 - 5

You don't think the Germans care about things like brand prestige?

They do, but being Germans, they also care about the actual attributes of said vehicle/model - which is why the i30N has been such a success in Germany (the Germans appreciate good engineering).

As for the CTS, you're mistaken, Cadillac would be lucky to have sold 300 CTS for the year in Europe.


As for the dealer network, # of dealerships isn't nearly as important as location and look/feel of the facilities.

Over 70% of luxury auto sales comes from just the Top 30 markets.

Cadillac was looking to reduce its dealership count as a whopping 43% of the brand's 925 dealerships sold 50 or fewer vehicles to retail customers in a calendar year.

That's why the initial plan for the Genesis dealer network was limited to 100 stores.

The Canadian market is a good gauge of sales as most of luxury sales are limited to the Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver metro areas.

Thru Sept., Kia sold 1,310 Stingers (no 2.0T sales yet) compared to 433 Giulia sales by Alfa.

For cars that are sold under parent company branding often they aren't marketed as luxury cars. That's definitely the case in Europe with Nissan. Cars are equipped differently to meet market demand. Nissan like Kia has struggled to break into European luxury markets. Europeans are much less excepting of Kia as a luxury car for sure. In Japan its more of a cost thing and not as much need to differentiate separate luxury brand as Japanese have always had top end luxury cars from Toyota and Nissan. Similar to Kia and Hyundai in Korea selling luxury cars domestically

Then why does the non-lux branded Stinger continue to outsell the Giulia, XE, IS, ATS and Q50 in Germany (and other Germanic states)?

The biggest problem for the Stinger over in Europe is the CO2 tax hit.

That's why the more efficient 2.5T motor will help, along w/ a hybrid variant (most IS sales in Europe is for the hybrid).

Id argue Lexus is far from "cheap" luxury car now. Yes they have some value entries but still offer cars that compete with Mercedes very much on merit not price. They were very effective at making a standalone luxury product that competes head on with Mercedes and have you looked at prices of Lexus lately? Not cheap! ....several cars with starting prices over $80K going into $100K with options. Let me know when Kia starts selling cars north of $80K USD in US. LOL! Hell they can barely get $40K for top of line GT2 Stingers these days after all discounts they have to offer to close a sale.

The Lexus RWD sedans are still a value play against the RWD Germans, esp. Mercedes.

And despite that value play, Lexus' RWD sales continue to decline (so much so that the GS looks to be on its way out).

The vast majority of Lexus sales consists of the cheaper FWD models - NX, ES and RX and that'll only be more so w/ the addition of the UX.

Genesis, otoh, has opted for RWD CUVs (at least for the GV80 and GV70).

The GV80 will be more luxurious than the RX and the GV70 more luxurious than the NX; and wouldn't be surprised to see them priced alongside (if not slightly higher) than the Lexus models.

You may want to rethink your fake news allegation.

 

[CaliSting]

Alfa did NOT sell almost as many Giulias as Stingers.

16,806 vs. 11,519 is not an insignificant delta.

The Giulia did 68% of the Stinger's volume, and the Stinger, unlike the Giulia, was still ramping up supply early in 2018.

The Giulia only broke the 1k sales barrier for 3 months in 2018 (only did it twice in 2017).

The Stinger surpassed the 1k sales mark for every month in 2018.

Haven't really followed Giulia sales overall, but don't think it's a big seller in Europe (outside of maybe Italy).

Back in July of last year, the Stinger outsold pretty much everything in Germany that wasn't a BMW, MB, or Audi in its size segment.

Stinger - 107
Giulia - 78
XE - 77
IS - 20
ATS - 14
Q50 - 5

You don't think the Germans care about things like brand prestige?

They do, but being Germans, they also care about the actual attributes of said vehicle/model - which is why the i30N has been such a success in Germany (the Germans appreciate good engineering).

As for the CTS, you're mistaken, Cadillac would be lucky to have sold 300 CTS for the year in Europe.


As for the dealer network, # of dealerships isn't nearly as important as location and look/feel of the facilities.

Over 70% of luxury auto sales comes from just the Top 30 markets.

Cadillac was looking to reduce its dealership count as a whopping 43% of the brand's 925 dealerships sold 50 or fewer vehicles to retail customers in a calendar year.

That's why the initial plan for the Genesis dealer network was limited to 100 stores.

The Canadian market is a good gauge of sales as most of luxury sales are limited to the Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver metro areas.

Thru Sept., Kia sold 1,310 Stingers (no 2.0T sales yet) compared to 433 Giulia sales by Alfa.




Then why does the non-lux branded Stinger continue to outsell the Giulia, XE, IS, ATS and Q50 in Germany (and other Germanic states)?

The biggest problem for the Stinger over in Europe is the CO2 tax hit.

That's why the more efficient 2.5T motor will help, along w/ a hybrid variant (most IS sales in Europe is for the hybrid).




The Lexus RWD sedans are still a value play against the RWD Germans, esp. Mercedes.

And despite that value play, Lexus' RWD sales continue to decline (so much so that the GS looks to be on its way out).

The vast majority of Lexus sales consists of the cheaper FWD models - NX, ES and RX and that'll only be more so w/ the UX.

You may want to rethink your fake news allegation.

.....Blah blah blah. Bottom line Alfa Giulia outsold Stinger worldwide. Do some research sonny. Alfa Romeo Giulia European sales figures

 

[YEH]

Nice retort - not.

So what?

The Stinger outsold the Giulia in the US, Canada, Korea and Australia.

And let's not forget, the Stinger is a fastback, a traditionally lower selling body-style.

Neither the A5 Fastback nor the 4 Series Gran Coupe outsell their sedan counterparts (and in fact, are outsold by their 4-door counterparts by a huge margin).

 

[Kamauxx]

.....Blah blah blah. Bottom line Alfa Giulia outsold Stinger worldwide.

Shortest post in the history of your career as a Stinger forum troll. Congrats on this milestone.

Please continue to break your record.

 

[CaliSting]

Nice retort - not.

So what?

The Stinger outsold the Giulia in the US, Canada, Korea and Australia.

And let's not forget, the Stinger is a fastback, a traditionally lower selling body-style.

Neither the A5 Fastback nor the 4 Series Gran Coupe outsell their sedan counterparts (and in fact, are outsold by their 4-door counterparts by a huge margin).

Feels like youre making excuses for poor Stinger sales now. In most important market, China, they are failing. US sales are falling off cliff after all the hype and huge multi million dollar PR campaigns have ended. Kia can’t afford to continue to spend money promoting the car. Other markets you site are not consequential. Perhaps since you like quoting percentages you can tell us all sales decrease from height of Stinger sales of around 1700 plus to the now 1200 or so?

 

[SKStinger]

.....Blah blah blah. Bottom line Alfa Giulia outsold Stinger worldwide. Do some research sonny. Alfa Romeo Giulia European sales figures

Why are we comparing these two cars anyway? They aren’t even in the same class. The Alfa is more comparable in size and weight to the Optima than it is to the Stinger.

Both the Alfa and the Stinger are beautiful cars and were released around the same time but that’s really where the similarities end.