FAQ: Vibration under braking: warped rotors? NO!

[Manaz]

1) Should I still try to re-bed the brakes?

You can try re-bedding the brakes. You may have a fair bit of pad deposit to remove. This won't fix the issue long-term, as the problem appears to be with the pad material/manufacturing.

2) Whether or not I could get the brake job done through Kia, should I look into getting aftermarket rotors and pads so I can avoid this issue? I understand that aftermarket parts aren't perfect either, but it's something that should be explored anyway. And I don't have to worry about voiding warranty or whatever because the dealership already said it won't be covered under warranty.

I'd certainly be pushing for Kia to cover it. Tell them that you've been having the issue for a while, and that you're aware of a number of other people who have had the same issue and had it fixed under warranty. Ask them what they're changing to fix it.

To be clear here though - if you have the same issue that many seem to be having, there's nothing wrong with the OEM rotors, they're not the problem. Rotors simply don't warp. The issue is that the US-market pads appear to dump deposits onto the rotors, which causes the issue.

If they refuse to fix it under warranty, you can absolutely move to aftermarket parts - they're a wear and tear item, so Kia shouldn't withhold warranty because you replaced them with appropriate aftermarket parts.

 

[Crunchwrap_Supreme]

Sorry, no good answers, ibringdafunkbaq - which dealer? Stevens Creek? I don't trust ANY Stevens Creek dealers (Subaru, Kia, etc). They're all slimeballs in my book. Mind you, I haven't heard of any GOOD Kia dealers around here either. Try another dealer, maybe?

Not Stevens Creek, I stay away from those lol. I went to Capitol Kia, they're.. decent. I've been looking around aftermarket parts for a while now but I'm not sure how reputable some of these aftermarket companies are

 

[Crunchwrap_Supreme]

You can try re-bedding the brakes. You may have a fair bit of pad deposit to remove. This won't fix the issue long-term, as the problem appears to be with the pad material/manufacturing.



I'd certainly be pushing for Kia to cover it. Tell them that you've been having the issue for a while, and that you're aware of a number of other people who have had the same issue and had it fixed under warranty. Ask them what they're changing to fix it.

To be clear here though - if you have the same issue that many seem to be having, there's nothing wrong with the OEM rotors, they're not the problem. Rotors simply don't warp. The issue is that the US-market pads appear to dump deposits onto the rotors, which causes the issue.

If they refuse to fix it under warranty, you can absolutely move to aftermarket parts - they're a wear and tear item, so Kia shouldn't withhold warranty because you replaced them with appropriate aftermarket parts.

Cool thanks! Yeah I will definitely try to push for them to cover it. I think it's a little ridiculous that a car of this caliber is having these issues at so few miles. My 8th gen Si hasn't gotten rotors replaced at all.. at 178k miles lol only resurfaces (I babied the hell out of it)

 

[itguy61]

Hello everyone!
My Stinger is at 11,700 miles right now, and I've been experiencing vibrations under braking from speeds higher than 60 mph. I didn't come across this thread until earlier today but I had already brought my car to the dealership for an inspection. I am aware that there have been several cases of Stingers at ~10,000 miles+ experiencing this, and that many have got the rotors/pads replaced under warranty.

Technician wrote "After test drive I proceeded to perform brake inspection. Rotor runout measurement is .003 inch which puts rotos in excess of repair. Suggest 4 new rotors and all brake pads in order to correct issue and test drive afterward. Customer advised."

What annoys me is that the dealership says the rotors and pads will not be covered under warranty BUT they say I can and should call Kia Consumer Relations (they gave me their number) and have Kia pay for the brake job out of good will (quoted at a little above $2000).

So my questions are:
1) Should I still try to re-bed the brakes?
2) Whether or not I could get the brake job done through Kia, should I look into getting aftermarket rotors and pads so I can avoid this issue? I understand that aftermarket parts aren't perfect either, but it's something that should be explored anyway. And I don't have to worry about voiding warranty or whatever because the dealership already said it won't be covered under warranty.

Wait, how come my brakes aren't covered under warranty and for some others, they were?

They are covered up to 12 months or 12k miles.

 

[turboAWD]

Cool thanks! Yeah I will definitely try to push for them to cover it. I think it's a little ridiculous that a car of this caliber is having these issues at so few miles. My 8th gen Si hasn't gotten rotors replaced at all.. at 178k miles lol only resurfaces (I babied the hell out of it)

I agree - but.. This isn't unique to Kia. My Legacy had it non-stop. It's well known that you should switch brake pads there too.. Our '08 Grand Caravan had it BADLY. Our '15 Town and Country has a bit better brakes, but if too much stop and go, they still shudder.

I think it comes down to trying to save every penny / ounce, and/or worrying about consumer complaints. With the Dodge, they originally used too thin rotors that heated up too fast, causing deposits, IIRC. Legacy was probably pad compound.

 

[Capecod]

I had the issue the day I picked up the car, Since getting the rear rotors and pads replaced Its so much more enjoyable driving, the shaking felt dangerous and not very confident I could stop under control in an emergency, which took any fun out of driving.. when it comes time for me to pay I would then go after market if they don't fess up to it being pads and come out with a new set up.

 

[thefultonhow]

I missed that this post had replies, but now that I checked, I'm dismayed by the amount of misinformation and general lack of knowledge.

If this were actually true why wouldn't all Stingers have this issue? My car has it. I have only driven this car normally. I live near Boston there are no hills. I have not hit the brakes hard at all. if the way I'm driving this car is over heating the brakes then the brakes are badly designed

Whether this issue manifests is highly dependent on driving style, roads used, etc. The pads and rotors are the same on all USDM Stinger GTs. If someone does not have the issue, they don't drive aggressively enough or on challenging enough roads to heat up the brakes sufficiently. If I went and drove their car, guaranteed I could get pad deposits on the rotors within an hour.

I am not looking for a pad only for the Stinger. I am looking for Amazon, Auto Zone, Pep Boys, Advance, Rock Auto, Auto Anything, CARid, etc. to offer pads for the Stinger GT. No one does. If you want a choice of among multiple pad types and pad manufacturers for your Stinger pad replacements, you are limited to Khartunerz. If you want different choices than the ones he is offering, good luck.

Autozone and Advance don't even have our oil filters -- why would you think they would have high performance brake pads for our cars?

As noted, if one manufacturer has pads that are cross listed between the Stinger and another car, any pads that fit the other car will fit the Stinger. The dimensions of the pads do not change from manufacturer to manufacturer. Only the pad compound does.

Based on the stock Stinger pad, it seems that there is more to it than fit. The stock Stinger pad fits, it is the wrong pad for this car.

Yikes dude. Once again, pad dimensions (i.e. fitment) and pad compound (I.e. how the pad performs) are entirely different things.

By aggressive, I mean to take more temperature without losing the desired brake properties like friction coefficient (fade resistance), pedal feel, and brake modulation during aggressive stops. I want a performance ceramic for low noise and low dust reasons and I want to avoid a semi-metallic pad for corrosive dust reasons.

Yeah, good luck with that. Any pad with decent performance will produce noise and dust. Either the pad produces friction by being soft enough to conform to the rotor surface (and will melt if subjected to too much heat), or it produces friction by being abrasive enough. If it's abrasive, it's either going to destroy the rotors by literally sanding them down, or it's going to have tiny pieces that break off (i.e. dust). Either way it will be noisy.

The entire reason Kia used crap pads for the US market is that US consumers hate noise and dust. It's a tradeoff.

Stoptech Street Pads are an increase in performance without an increase in noise or dust

Disagree. They don't produce as much dust as, say, Hawk HPS, but they still produce plenty of dust. I had them on my Legacys, and the amount of dust was significant, although not really corrosive like the HP+ dust was.

I assumed the applying hydraulic brake means pads on rotors?

It does. The electronic parking brake (EPB) is not hydraulic. It's cable-actuated, just like a non-electronic handbrake.

I think this thread now needs a poll to summarise .
Can the experts do a summary as there seems to be a large amount of variation in reasons.
Most I have spoken to say it’s the pads. I can’t say much as I have had no problems and I’m heavy braker.

A poll won't do you any good, because there are too many people who don't know what they're talking about. It will merely tell you the percentage of people who are wrong and the percentage who are right.

My garage mecanic was asking me if kia has other brakes than brembos because me gt2 had fitting to put in a cable e-brake but says brembos are electronic... so why did kia put this in?

Either you misintepreted what your mechanic said, or you need to fire him, because that's 100% wrong. All of it.

 

[Helo58]

Autozone and Advance don't even have our oil filters -- why would you think they would have high performance brake pads for our cars?

Because they sell auto parts and the Stinger is an auto. I see no reason they don't sell the oil filter too.

As noted, if one manufacturer has pads that are cross listed between the Stinger and another car, any pads that fit the other car will fit the Stinger. The dimensions of the pads do not change from manufacturer to manufacturer. Only the pad compound does.

You missed the point, there was no crosslisting for the Stinger from any manufacturer of brake pads when these posts were made with the exception of Centric for a "value pad" I had no intention of using. It was for warranty work and the dealer felt that anecdotal evidence that other pads fit was insufficient for them to install them as part of the warranty work.

Yikes dude. Once again, pad dimensions (i.e. fitment) and pad compound (I.e. how the pad performs) are entirely different things.

You are reiterating my point more than you are correcting it.

Yeah, good luck with that. Any pad with decent performance will produce noise and dust. Either the pad produces friction by being soft enough to conform to the rotor surface (and will melt if subjected to too much heat), or it produces friction by being abrasive enough. If it's abrasive, it's either going to destroy the rotors by literally sanding them down, or it's going to have tiny pieces that break off (i.e. dust). Either way it will be noisy.

Brake pad composition can't be reduced to 2 or 3 sentences. "Soft" has little to do with why a pad grabs a rotor. It has more to do with the over 200+ different possible ingredients used in compounding a brake pad. Having a compound that is better than the stock pad with equivalent (or less) levels of dust and noise is entirely possible. AMHIK.

The entire reason Kia used crap pads for the US market is that US consumers hate noise and dust. It's a tradeoff.

This is an assumption regarding the brake pads that remains to be seen. Not everyone reports being affected by the brake pad issue and it is possible that the bad pads were limited to specific lots or batches. The pads on my car were crap, that doesn't mean that the pads on all Stingers are crap.

 

[Manaz]

All - just remember we're all on the same team here - trying to get the best outcome for our cars, ourselves and our community.

 

[thefultonhow]

Because they sell auto parts and the Stinger is an auto. I see no reason they don't sell the oil filter too.

My point is that you're expecting a little too much of these parts stores. In a perfect world, should they have all possible parts for all possible cars? Sure. Let me know when we live in a perfect world.

You missed the point, there was no crosslisting for the Stinger from any manufacturer of brake pads when these posts were made with the exception of Centric for a "value pad" I had no intention of using. It was for warranty work and the dealer felt that anecdotal evidence that other pads fit was insufficient for them to install them as part of the warranty work.

No, YOU missed the point. If even one pad is crosslisted as working for Car A and Car B, then all pads listed for Car A will work on Car B, and vice versa, because the pad dimensions will not differ. If you can't make the dealer see the logic in that, then you should get the VIP line involved, or you should go to a different dealer whose service department understands basic logic.

Having a compound that is better than the stock pad with equivalent (or less) levels of dust and noise is entirely possible.

Don't you think you're setting kind of a low bar there? Maybe you're different, but I want a pad with satisfactory performance, not just one that's "better than stock." To get there, you need to be prepared for some level of noise and/or dust.

Was I oversimplifying how brake pads work? Sure. But for the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't need to get much more complicated. Pads with no noise and dust will, IMO, not be sufficient in terms of their stopping power, fade resistance, and resistance to pad deposits.

This is an assumption regarding the brake pads that remains to be seen. Not everyone reports being affected by the brake pad issue and it is possible that the bad pads were limited to specific lots or batches. The pads on my car were crap, that doesn't mean that the pads on all Stingers are crap.

It's not an assumption. Car and Driver specifically asked KMA, and KMA specifically told them that the North American market got a softer pad compound than the European market (and frankly, probably than the rest of the world). And considering the cross-section of people who have had this problem (everyone from first-month buyers to people with fresh-off-the-lot 2019s), there is no way that they have changed that.

I will say it again: whether someone has the problem or not is down to driving style, types of roads, and ambient temperature. Just because someone has not had the problem, doesn't mean their cars don't have exactly the same pads as everyone else, and I am confident that I could drive their cars in such a way that would almost immediately result in pad deposits.

 

[Helo58]

My point is that you're expecting a little too much of these parts stores. In a perfect world, should they have all possible parts for all possible cars? Sure. Let me know when we live in a perfect world.



No, YOU missed the point. If even one pad is crosslisted as working for Car A and Car B, then all pads listed for Car A will work on Car B, and vice versa, because the pad dimensions will not differ. If you can't make the dealer see the logic in that, then you should get the VIP line involved, or you should go to a different dealer whose service department understands basic logic.



Don't you think you're setting kind of a low bar there? Maybe you're different, but I want a pad with satisfactory performance, not just one that's "better than stock." To get there, you need to be prepared for some level of noise and/or dust.

Was I oversimplifying how brake pads work? Sure. But for the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't need to get much more complicated. Pads with no noise and dust will, IMO, not be sufficient in terms of their stopping power, fade resistance, and resistance to pad deposits.



It's not an assumption. Car and Driver specifically asked KMA (Kia Motors America), and KMA (Kia Motors America) specifically told them that the North American market got a softer pad compound than the European market (and frankly, probably than the rest of the world). And considering the cross-section of people who have had this problem (everyone from first-month buyers to people with fresh-off-the-lot 2019s), there is no way that they have changed that.

I will say it again: whether someone has the problem or not is down to driving style, types of roads, and ambient temperature. Just because someone has not had the problem, doesn't mean their cars don't have exactly the same pads as everyone else, and I am confident that I could drive their cars in such a way that would almost immediately result in pad deposits.

A perfect world, would be Walmart having all available Stinger parts in stock at the lowest price possible. Wanting Autozone, Advance or PepBoys to merely have them is not expecting too much. Maybe your bar is set too low. As for the dealer, I missed no point. Feel free to come and convince them how to run their business, I chose to go about it differently. You seem to have a limited understanding regarding legal liability for business owners. Unfortunately, the dealership is going to act in their best interest and limit their liability. I am not sure why that concept is lost on some people. As a business owner, I do the same thing in my business. Using a brake pad on the Stinger that isn't listed for the Stinger opens them to increased liability regardless of whether it works or not. You stated that everything in brake pads is a trade off. I gave one example of where I could increase all aspects of performance with no downside. That doesn't sound like a compromise to me. My Stoptech performance ceramics have no additional noise or dust over stock but perform better than stock. So there is that... I wish I could comment on things with the certainty that you do. You have no idea of what is wrong with the stock brake pads or how many are affected. I am not sure why you act as though you do.

 

[itguy61]

A perfect world, would be Walmart having all available Stinger parts in stock at the lowest price possible. Wanting Autozone, Advance or PepBoys to merely have them is not expecting too much. Maybe your bar is set too low. As for the dealer, I missed no point. Feel free to come and convince them how to run their business, I chose to go about it differently. You seem to have a limited understanding regarding legal liability for business owners. Unfortunately, the dealership is going to act in their best interest and limit their liability. I am not sure why that concept is lost on some people. As a business owner, I do the same thing in my business. Using a brake pad on the Stinger that isn't listed for the Stinger opens them to increased liability regardless of whether it works or not. You stated that everything in brake pads is a trade off. I gave one example of where I could increase all aspects of performance with no downside. That doesn't sound like a compromise to me. My Stoptech performance ceramics have no additional noise or dust over stock but perform better than stock. So there is that... I wish I could comment on things with the certainty that you do. You have no idea of what is wrong with the stock brake pads or how many are affected. I am not sure why you act as though you do.

Did you put the new pads on?

 

[Helo58]

Did you put the new pads on?

The car is currently in the shop for rotor replacement with stop tech pads along with the LSD replacement. No completion date yet for the LSD work so they still have my car.

 

[D.J.]

I just had all 4 rotors replaced under warranty at 10,320 kms.
Just rotors - not pads.

Durham Kia - Oshawa, Ontario

They are smooth - for now...

 

[cranman]

Heres my story- 8k miles in shop for break issue, tech sees no issue. just under 12k back in shop for brake issue- tech duplicates issue and resurfaces rotors. 16k car in shop same brake issue- dealer says i have to pay for resurfacing, Kia VIP care says they can authorize resurfacing but nothing else. I am now moving onto brake performance grooved rotors and brake pads from Khartunerz, also going to have braided cables installed while at the shop. Sad that its a known issue and KIA is turning their head.

 

[Helo58]

Sad that its a known issue and KIA is turning their head.

I agree. What surprises me the most is that this issue is well documented in the automotive press and here on the forum, yet still no comprehensive official corrective actions. I don't have a real feel for how widespread the issue is with actual Stinger owners aside from the posts here on the forum. It could be that the issue isn't really that widespread, but that is just speculation. It would be interesting to know "officially" how many Stinger owners have been to the dealer for brake issues.

 

[turboAWD]

What's sad is that it's becoming common - my '05 Legacy GT had this issue with OEM pads, and our '08 Grand Caravan had this issue (VERY BADLY) with OEM pads. Our '15 Town and Country (bigger factory brakes than the '08 GC, although sharing many parts) is a little better, but not too much - get the brakes hot at all, and the pulsating starts. In both cases (Legacy, Caravan), switching to aftermarket pads solved the issue.

Of course, dealers were doing similar things like, re-surfacing, etc, on a per-case basis. I don't have the patience for that - if I know it's just going to happen again, I'll put on something better. I tried HP+, Carbotech Bobcats and Stoptech pads on my Legacy. Liked the Bobcats the best (by far!). Eventually did a Wilwood upgrade in the front and (with some issues) went though Porterfield R4-S and Wilwood "compound B". Both were good. Did R4-S in the back, and those were fine.

If/when the time comes, I'll probably try Porterfield R4-S for the Stinger, and/or Bobcats.. At least changing the pads is easy - I hated removing the calipers on the Legacy..

 

[itguy61]

Maybe they don't want to resolve the root cause because they make money on the out of the 12k mile warranty repairs.

 

[Rob 02]

Hey guys just had my brakes done last weekend had the vibration. Had over 16,000 miles on the car didn’t pay anything. Also a proud owner of the sunset yellow stinger I don’t know if that played a role seeing I was already upset with my car having to be repainted. But I didn’t pay a dime.

 

[CincyEagleFan]

Just had my rotors replaced on my 2018 GT2 (20k miles). I'll be doing the E-brake method until I can get new pads.

Was there a consensus on what after market pads to replace with?