Cpi vs Wmi

[GRNWNVY]

Wow, things got testy in here!

@GRNWNVY The amount of power you made is irrelevant to source or cause of the failure. I applaud your years as a Master Tech, but that doesn't mean the install was flawless... because human.

@playerbase I'll check it out. That's great if the corn fuel set up holds good. Let's see how things are in 10k miles.

Wrong, the amount of power is relevant because that was also a direct injected engine ( in 2008, one of the first of its kind) and without the meth system working correctly that level of power out of 2.3 liter 4 cylinder would have otherwise been very difficult to achieve, if not impossible . If the install had been the cause of the failure, a problem would have likely arose much sooner in its life. The point I was trying to make is that water methanol systems are a risky way to make power reliably. Im not the only one who has had catastrophic engine failure due to a meth system going tits up, either due to a pump failure, clogged nozzle, electrical issue etc. Sure I have made mistakes over my decades of modding vehicles- that however wasn’t one of them.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Good thing about a JB4 with WMI is it can limit boost if the WMI is not flowing properly. At least that's how I understand it to work. "Progressive WMI (water/meth) map. Increases boost as a function of methanol flow & methanol boost additive. Holds boost low until WMI is flowing to avoid tip-in knock, and reduces boost as a function of WMI flow in the event of interruption like running out of fluid, leak, or component failure."

 

[Stiletto]

Wrong, the amount of power is relevant because that was also a direct injected engine ( in 2008, one of the first of its kind) and without the meth system working correctly that level of power out of 2.3 liter 4 cylinder would have otherwise been very difficult to achieve, if not impossible . If the install had been the cause of the failure, a problem would have likely arose much sooner in its life. The point I was trying to make is that water methanol systems are a risky way to make power reliably. Im not the only one who has had catastrophic engine failure due to a meth system going tits up, either due to a pump failure, clogged nozzle, electrical issue etc. Sure I have made mistakes over my decades of modding vehicles- that however wasn’t one of them.

Agree to disagree. Meth injection has been around since WW2. Moving the fuel injectors to direct spray has no bearing on WMI injection pre-throttle body or even directly into the intake plenum. The water-methanol mixture doesn't care where fuel is coming from.

The solenoid cannot push the fluid from the reservoir without the pump. Sure, the solenoid could've failed day two and would have resulted in the same. But that dumping of fluid simply cannot happen without the pump being wired for constant power.

Any time you meddle with the timing, ignition and fueling (along with other areas of combustion) of a mechanical device, you risk failure. If this was before 10 years ago, the probability for failure would've been higher. Modern safety mechanisms prevent many of those catastrophic failures...if applied correctly.

 

[GRNWNVY]

Agree to disagree. Meth injection has been around since WW2. Moving the fuel injectors to direct spray has no bearing on WMI injection pre-throttle body or even directly into the intake plenum. The water-methanol mixture doesn't care where fuel is coming from.

The solenoid cannot push the fluid from the reservoir without the pump. Sure, the solenoid could've failed day two and would have resulted in the same. But that dumping of fluid simply cannot happen without the pump being wired for constant power.

Any time you meddle with the timing, ignition and fueling (along with other areas of combustion) of a mechanical device, you risk failure. If this was before 10 years ago, the probability for failure would've been higher. Modern safety mechanisms prevent many of those catastrophic failures...if applied correctly.

Correct, at that time Devils Own had their system designed with the pump wired straight to battery positive, and the controller provided the ground to trigger the spray

 

[Avant]

Not calling you a liar, but if Lap3 and CPI were the combo for full E85, I would think we'd have a BUNCH of Stingers running that (me included). Does the person you know with this set up post on any forums or groups?

I am on here. Just don't come on a ton. I mainly post on the 3.3T FB threads.

Feel free to ask me any questions though. As of now, I fill up with full E85.

here is a quick screen shot at E83. Trims, AFR, HPFP all in check. Fuel trims almost look like stock. They stay very level with little to no adjustments.

 

[playerbase]

I am on here. Just don't come on a ton. I mainly post on the 3.3T FB threads.

Feel free to ask me any questions though. As of now, I fill up with full E85.

here is a quick screen shot at E83. Trims, AFR, HPFP all in check. Fuel trims almost look like stock. They stay very level with little to no adjustments.

Was it difficult for you to fiddle around with the JB4 & CPI to get the settings right so you don't run lean or have any issues with running it simultaneously with the Lap3 Stage 2.5 tune?

 

[Avant]

I have had CPI for over a year now. I believe I was the first to use it. I have helped 100's of people out with their settings.

I always have them send me a long with base settings and CPI duty cycle at 50%. Then look at the log and adjust from there. With the latest firmware update it helped even more with fuel trims and allowing us to run more E85.

If anyone plans on getting it or has it, let me know. I am happy to help out.

 

[playerbase]

I have had CPI for over a year now. I believe I was the first to use it. I have helped 100's of people out with their settings.

I always have them send me a long with base settings and CPI duty cycle at 50%. Then look at the log and adjust from there. With the latest firmware update it helped even more with fuel trims and allowing us to run more E85.

If anyone plans on getting it or has it, let me know. I am happy to help out.

I'm planning on going down the same route as you, CPI and then getting the Lap3 Stage 2.5 tune, just out of curiosity how bad is the mileage drop?

Also, any pros or cons with running Lap3 Stage 2.5 w/ CPI rather than WMI?

 

[Avant]

I drove to vegas and I got like 21 tops just cruising with full E85.

I tested both WMI and CPI with the lap3 stage 2.5 tune. They both produced the exact same results in terms of data and times. My suggestion is pick whatever one is easier for you to get. If you have E85 everywhere, that would be the route I'd go.

 

[playerbase]

I drove to vegas and I got like 21 tops just cruising with full E85.

I tested both WMI and CPI with the lap3 stage 2.5 tune. They both produced the exact same results in terms of data and times. My suggestion is pick whatever one is easier for you to get. If you have E85 everywhere, that would be the route I'd go.

That’s much better than I thought. Is it possible to run the tune as a flex fuel tune? i have “flex fuel” available at the pump (51-83% ethanol) changed based on the time of year. Unfortunately I don’t know anywhere near me that offers full E85

 

[Avant]

Yep. Obviously the more E content you have the better it is. When on road trips I fill up with 91 octane. The ECU is adaptive so on lower octane it will pull timing back. I just don't rip around when on 91 octane.