Consumer Reports Stinger Reliability Rating

[DoctorStiches]

So CR gave the Stinger a middling rating of 55, below the Audi, Lexus, and BMW ratings for reliability (Dec. 2018, pg. 61) in a compact luxury class vehicle. I answered a comprehensive CR survey earlier this year with the highest marks in every category. So, who the heck is knocking the Stinger? Since when does a new Kia have reliability issues? The Audi A4 and BMW 3 series are typically more problematic when reviewed in long term tests by the automotive press. Even if you don't trust CR as a knowledgeable source of enthusiast info on cars, these surveys are supposedly driven by user ratings only. And CR doesn't take advertising, so that is not a factor. Any ideas?

I think it's just marketing. the bigger companies are paying for key to get a lower rating.

 

[GronkSoyFiesta]

Perhaps. It could also be a differing opinion on what "a lot" or "relatively few" is. In total is not as important as how many cases of a particular failure or issue with the car.

I'm not one of them. I just feel that it needs dissecting rather than just taking the report at face value.

I disagree. The warranty is there to cover the individual slips due to new manufacturing processes with a new car. Kia is not even trying to get "off the hook".

Now you are psychoanalyzing. All we can engage in is differing opinions about how a majority of other Stinger owners behave. For instance, I see the opposite of what I think you are implying here: which is "many" won't accept reality. My reality is obviously different from yours: you have 1200 miles and a list of things that range from imperfections to aggravating flaws: I have c. 13,000 miles and haven't seen a thing wrong with my car so far. Worlds apart, it seems. Two individual automobiles manufactured as exactly the same way as humanly possible with a new set of factory processes: yet with dramatically different results (I hope that you get all of your issues attended to with alacrity and complete satisfaction). I see the great majority of Stinger owners on this forum having the same experience as my own; or nearly the same, with only one or possibly a couple of minor issues.

Minimize the incidence of disappointment. Most people looking at buying MY18s now are looking at Blue, Red and Black. Even though the incidence is less than 5% in total, why would I not say something about that?

Again, unless you work for Kia, this number is a fabrication. Why do that? Please do give me a source and I’ll happily eat my words. The only poll on paint (this forum) has the number 10x that.

 

[MerlintheMad]

I think it's just marketing. the bigger companies are paying for key to get a lower rating.

Oh, harsh cynicism! CR would holler "foul!" But, "You can buy anything in this world, with money." (who said that?)

 

[MerlintheMad]

Again, unless you work for Kia, this number is a fabrication. Why do that? Please do give me a source and I’ll happily eat my words. The only poll on paint (this forum) has the number 10x that.

How do you figure "10X that"? The poll has currently (and for many days now) 254 voters; that is 5% of the total Stinger Forum membership. Only two-thirds (3% of forum membership) have paint issues.

This poll (I have said this many times) has worldwide access. A Google search with any common phrase like "kia stinger paint chipping" pulls this poll up to the top of the first page of results. Anyone searching for information on their Stinger's chipping, flaking, peeling paint will find the poll. Why don't many of these "many" pissed off Stinger owners join this forum so that they can contribute to outing Kia's crappy paint quality and warranty? Or, could it be that the poll itself is a model of worldwide Stinger paint issues (my belief): very few cars have noticeable paint defects. Probably less than the 3% indicated here.

 

[GronkSoyFiesta]

How do you figure "10X that"? The poll has currently (and for many days now) 254 voters; that is 5% of the total Stinger Forum membership. Only two-thirds (3% of forum membership) have paint issues.

This poll (I have said this many times) has worldwide access. A Google search with any common phrase like "kia stinger paint chipping" pulls this poll up to the top of the first page of results. Anyone searching for information on their Stinger's chipping, flaking, peeling paint will find the poll. Why don't many of these "many" pissed off Stinger owners join this forum so that they can contribute to outing Kia's crappy paint quality and warranty? Or, could it be that the poll itself is a model of worldwide Stinger paint issues (my belief): very few cars have noticeable paint defects. Probably less than the 3% indicated here.

Merlin, look. I'm sure you are a nice person and I don't want to be disrespectful, but that is not at all how surveys and polls work. You are using the total respondent base of the survey interchangeably with the incidence of paint problems. You are then taking the actual (reported) incidence of paint problems and instead of using the total survey respondents as the denominator, you are using the total forum membership. You don't even need to do this since the poll calculates incidence automatically.

The actual incidence of those with paint problems is 61.9%.

At < 300 respondents you can create a statistically representative poll of a population that numbers in the hundreds of millions. In this case we have a poll with 254 respondents for a population that numbers in the thousands. We don't need more people to take the poll to tell us there's a significant incidence. Is the survey designed perfectly, no. But it's very easy to understand, as it's binary: do you have paint problems or don'tcha? The real number may be nowhere close to 60%, but I can also tell you it's likely far higher than the 3-5% you love to report as fact.

I think this is challenging because you are misinterpreting the results and are so entrenched with that (mis) information you are then attempting to minimize the issue.

This is a textbook example of confirmation bias, even to the point where you're now (wink wink) suggesting that CR is fraudulent. The cognitive dissonance comes in when your own behaviors don't match your purported beliefs. I highly doubt you would remind someone to take an umbrella if you truly believed the chance of rain was 3-5%.

 

[MerlintheMad]

You don't even need to do this since the poll calculates incidence automatically.

The actual incidence of those with paint problems is 61.9%.

I've been over this before; you are making an assumption that because only a little less than 40% of voters said "no problems" that somehow that means nearly two-thirds of Stingers have paint failures. There is no basis for this "automatically" assertion: because ALL who have not voted either way have not been interested enough to search for paint issues as a topic, or haven't even thought about it, or (unlike myself) have not stumbled on the poll/topic by accident. That means the incidence of "no problems" will actually rise to far above two-thirds, rather than barely above it as it is currently. It is not logical to assume equivalency in not voting: i.e. people with failing paint are just as unconcerned and unnoticing as people with perfect paint. We have a much higher representation of owners with problems than unaffected owners, in the poll results.

The real number may be nowhere close to 60%, but I can also tell you it's likely far higher than the 3-5% you love to report as fact.

I say it is a model, not a fact. We don't have anything better to go by. My own observations, inspecting an inventory of 16 Stingers, the general lack of discussion on the issue of paint quality, and the number of people who have even bothered to respond to the poll, all tell me the same thing: lack if interest/exposure to the topic of paint quality pushes the reality far closer to 5 or even 3% than the poll's 62%, as the percentage of Stingers with paint quality issues.

I think this is challenging because you are misinterpreting the results and are so entrenched with that (mis) information you are then attempting to minimize the issue.

Yes, I am minimizing exaggerations that this is a yooge problem. Evidence of all the worldwide Stinger population not "reporting in" (joining the forum to vote in the poll), of our own members not even bothering to participate, of my own eyes and ears, says this is not an issue except with people experiencing it, and people who care (me).

This is a textbook example of confirmation bias, even to the point where you're now (wink wink) suggesting that CR is fraudulent.

That wasn't me. I am neutral where CR is concerned; and ignorant about how they stack up "unreliability" criteria to arrive at a final grade. I'm willing to entertain fraud (money under the table to get the grading method and do endruns on it) because it exists; which isn't the same as declaring zero confidence in CR; I still have an open mind on them and specifically on this application of their grading system; and I highly value personal experience assertions. What else do you have?

The cognitive dissonance comes in when your own behaviors don't match your purported beliefs. I highly doubt you would remind someone to take an umbrella if you truly believed the chance of rain was 3-5%.

False analogy. The risk of disappointment in either case is incomparable. I doubt PTSD will occur if someone gets a bit damp once in their lives. But spending close to $50K on a car is taking a big chance just by committing in the first place. I've seen how that disappointment manifests just by reading about it here. It is ugly and painful. I've invested my attention on this problem for the sake of truth; to help, if possible, spare others the disappointment. At least they will buy with their eyes open to the reality of Kia's problem and how they are handling it, etc.

 

[GronkSoyFiesta]

CR has less than 12 months of U.S. data on the Stinger, and probably on the low side of, or maybe even fewer than, their usual 200 to 400 cars sampled per model. When this happens, they say that "we use brand history and the reliability of similar models that may share major components in calculating our predictions." Don't the Kia models that are reported to be bursting into flames for an as-yet-undetermined reason (Optima, Sorrento, Sonata, Santa Fe, as reported by CR about the time they started collecting data for this rating) also have the 2.0 engine? If so, this may have had a big influence on the Stinger's reliability rating, since CR couldn't possibly have a large sample, and no more than 9 months of data on the Stinger, unless they also questioned owners outside the U.S. I don't know—do they?

Check out their page on how they determine the ratings: Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ

This is worth posting again. It's long so I doubt people will read it.

Here are some excerpts. Emphasis is mine.

Beyond statistical significance, we believe these differences are also meaningful to car buyers. We think that car buyers should expect a new car to be entirely problem-free in its first months or years of service. While the difference between a and a may be small, a pattern of several less-than-perfect trouble spots in a brand new car should be cause for concern and does not bode well for a model's long-term reliability. We have not yet seen a single model in our survey that is entirely problem-free. More than that, the Tesla Model X, which had the worst new car prediction score in the latest survey, is predicted to be about 12 times more likely to have a problem than the best, the Audi Q3. Those differences among models are important for car buyers to consider in choosing a car. We present these scores for trouble spots primarily to allow consumers to compare the relative incidence of problems among models. While there are no guarantees, you can improve your odds of buying a reliable car if you choose a model that has had a lower rate of problems in the past.

As mentioned above, the Stinger reliability score is 55, which in the compact luxury segment is behind only the IS and the A3. And TG none of us bought the Alfa which scored 17. However, the rating is "average" which is discouraging and so far it doesn't have a recommended rating for the used model, which doesn't help resale.

 

[GronkSoyFiesta]

I've been over this before; you are making an assumption that because only a little less than 40% of voters said "no problems" that somehow that means nearly two-thirds of Stingers have paint failures. There is no basis for this "automatically" assertion: because ALL who have not voted either way have not been interested enough to search for paint issues as a topic, or haven't even thought about it, or (unlike myself) have not stumbled on the poll/topic by accident. That means the incidence of "no problems" will actually rise to far above two-thirds, rather than barely above it as it is currently. It is not logical to assume equivalency in not voting: i.e. people with failing paint are just as unconcerned and unnoticing as people with perfect paint. We have a much higher representation of owners with problems than unaffected owners, in the poll results.

I say it is a model, not a fact. We don't have anything better to go by. My own observations, inspecting an inventory of 16 Stingers, the general lack of discussion on the issue of paint quality, and the number of people who have even bothered to respond to the poll, all tell me the same thing: lack if interest/exposure to the topic of paint quality pushes the reality far closer to 5 or even 3% than the poll's 62%, as the percentage of Stingers with paint quality issues.

Yes, I am minimizing exaggerations that this is a yooge problem. Evidence of all the worldwide Stinger population not "reporting in" (joining the forum to vote in the poll), of our own members not even bothering to participate, of my own eyes and ears, says this is not an issue except with people experiencing it, and people who care (me).

That wasn't me. I am neutral where CR is concerned; and ignorant about how they stack up "unreliability" criteria to arrive at a final grade. I'm willing to entertain fraud (money under the table to get the grading method and do endruns on it) because it exists; which isn't the same as declaring zero confidence in CR; I still have an open mind on them and specifically on this application of their grading system; and I highly value personal experience assertions. What else do you have?

False analogy. The risk of disappointment in either case is incomparable. I doubt PTSD will occur if someone gets a bit damp once in their lives. But spending close to $50K on a car is taking a big chance just by committing in the first place. I've seen how that disappointment manifests just by reading about it here. It is ugly and painful. I've invested my attention on this problem for the sake of truth; to help, if possible, spare others the disappointment. At least they will buy with their eyes open to the reality of Kia's problem and how they are handling it, etc.

Again, when presented with hard data, you choose to ignore it and make your own assumptions. We have a poll, you choose to present your "model" of what the poll data suggests by layering on your own opinions. On our team we have a saying of "strong opinions, weakly held" which means when presented with real information, we will adjust. You are doing just the opposite, you have a weak opinion and when confronted with the only thing close to real data we have, you choose to twist, ignore, minimize.

How you can actually manufacture a statistic of 3-5% is mind-boggling. You are making this up. That is a fact. The fact that you don't understand incidence is clear. Your only basis is the fact that people aren't storming the forum to vote on the poll? Give me a break. We can't even get people to vote for the freaking president of the USA.

What else do I have? I have bought many new cars. You have bought one. I am a professional researcher who understands how polls work. You do not. I am willing to triangulate my data with quantitative and qualitative sources both that support and disprove my hypotheses. Show me one example of where you changed your beliefs based on real data. Above you admit to being ignorant about CR. The link is provided above. How about spending some time reducing that ignorance so you can speak from an informed an opinion rather than suggesting "fraud can occur." It's intellectually lazy.

I have nothing to gain by being "right" here, as it only hurts me economically with the resale value of this car. I also don't have the time to post thousands of posts to prove something.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Give me a break. We can't even get people to vote for the freaking president of the USA.

LOL! You compare Billary and The Hair with a CAR!? You compare fun with patriotic duty? What sort of humans do you think make up humanity?

Show me one example of where you changed your beliefs based on real data.

How does your multiple ownership of new cars affect the Stinger? How does your profession impact my interpretation of "our" poll? Why would I change my mind on what the poll "models" when everything else that I have observed feeds into that bias? I am unwilling to believe in the magnitude of ills suffered by Stinger owners based on my personal experience with the car; and the dominant response to the car on this Forum. I see the complaints as rare problems, even singular ones (one only complaint of the type described, e.g. actual loose object rattle sounds down in the bottom of both front doors), not a trend leading to "this car is only average".

It's intellectually lazy.

That is a lifelong challenge of mine. I work at correcting it.

I also don't have the time to post thousands of posts to prove something.

Guilty as charged, from a certain pov. My intent here on this Forum is to enjoy myself talking about my latest favorite material object. I want the imperfections suffered by anyone to go away as quickly as possible so that we can get on with the real stuff: the FUN.

 

[MerlintheMad]

The link is provided above. How about spending some time reducing that ignorance so you can speak from an informed an opinion rather than suggesting "fraud can occur." It's intellectually lazy.

"Scores are based on the percentage of survey respondents who reported problems for that trouble spot ..."

How can we see the actual CR reported paint failure percentage from the evaluated Stinger owners? That would be hard data.

I am not going to pay to get into CR just so I can "research" this. If nobody here has access to CR"s reports, then I don't see this going any further. All we have is "our" paint poll.

 

[GronkSoyFiesta]

61% of the people who took the poll said they have issues with their paint. You turn that into your own data. I can't go any further, because when faced with facts, you change the subject. Others in the forum have called you out. You answer questions with questions. I'm not going to waste my time responding to you because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

 

[MerlintheMad]

Clearly, I don't know what we are talking about. I do know that 3% of the Stinger Forum's membership have reported paint issues. For whatever complex of reasons, that is all that have responded positively to the question.

CR percentage of members who own Stingers who report paint issues would be great "triangulation", and I welcome that.

 

[GRStinger]

CR used to be reliable for vehicle info. Back in the day (way back, early '90's) it was the only place to get reliable invoice pricing. Used to have to mail-away and get hard-copy invoice prices. I've subscribed on/off for years. Recently cancelled again. Relied on their ratings couple of years ago, we bought a new washer/dryer set, and we were totally disappointed. Daily-use problems were totally missed by CR. I remember their first so-so driver's review on the Stinger. A total miss. CR should to stick to coffee makers and vacuum cleaners.

 

[GronkSoyFiesta]

CR used to be reliable for vehicle info. Back in the day (way back, early '90's) it was the only place to get reliable invoice pricing. Used to have to mail-away and get hard-copy invoice prices. I've subscribed on/off for years. Recently cancelled again. Relied on their ratings couple of years ago, we bought a new washer/dryer set, and we were totally disappointed. Daily-use problems were totally missed by CR. I remember their first so-so driver's review on the Stinger. A total miss. CR should to stick to coffee makers and vacuum cleaners.

That’s fine, and I agree they should have driven the GT, but the car reliability data is based on owner surveys. There’s really nothing else like it and I’ve found it to be accurate in my ownership of Lexus, Infiniti and Acura

 

[driveanicecar]

So, for someone still on the fence about getting a 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD vs a Model 3 vs A5/S5 Sportback, what should I do?

 

[Ucinn]

So, for someone still on the fence about getting a 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD vs a Model 3 vs A5/S5 Sportback, what should I do?

Obviously I'm biased, but for the money spent, the Stinger GT2 is the way to go.. I was shopping the same vehicles and once you loaded the 3 and the S5 up to snuff, you were at substantially more money with about the same performance and options. You then are paying mostly for the emblem on the front but with less of a warranty.

 

[CDv6]

So, for someone still on the fence about getting a 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD vs a Model 3 vs A5/S5 Sportback, what should I do?

I just couldn't get over the value of the Stinger, as compared to the BMW 4GC (hatch) or Audi 5 (hatch); the Model 3 seems like a very different purchasing decision. If you want badge prestige, you're definitely in the wrong place, but for TCO, warranty, and performance options, the Stinger is a great choice.

 

[driveanicecar]

I just couldn't get over the value of the Stinger, as compared to the BMW 4GC (hatch) or Audi 5 (hatch); the Model 3 seems like a very different purchasing decision. If you want badge prestige, you're definitely in the wrong place, but for TCO, warranty, and performance options, the Stinger is a great choice.

That has always been my impression but I wanna make I am making an informed decision before I pull the trigger.

 

[westcoastGT]

So, for someone still on the fence about getting a 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD vs a Model 3 vs A5/S5 Sportback, what should I do?

take the model 3 and keep us posted !

 

[GRStinger]

So, for someone still on the fence about getting a 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD vs a Model 3 vs A5/S5 Sportback, what should I do?

That’s a tough decision. Of course, you’re going to get a lot of biased opinion here – including me! I was looking at the A5/S5 too, and I had all-but made up my mind to buy an A5 Sportback. I REALLY wanted the S5 s/b, but I just didn’t want to drop that kind of coin. IMO, they’re both great cars. Then, I started researching the Stinger GT - first test-drive and I was sold! Similarly spec’ed, the A5 is more expensive, and the Stinger GT blows it away in power and fun. To get similar power, you have to go to the S5 which is about $18K more. The Stinger also has more room/functionality than either. Now, the Stinger is a ½-notch down from the Audi’s in interior quality. And, of course, there’s the whole ‘prestige’ factor. For me, I was looking for the right car – not a brand. And, considering the price-point and warranty piece-of-mind, the Stinger GT was the clear choice for me.