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Consumer Reports Stinger Reliability Rating

Discussion in 'Kia Stinger in the News' started by RVance, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. RVance

    RVance United States Active Member Sustaining Member

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    So CR gave the Stinger a middling rating of 55, below the Audi, Lexus, and BMW ratings for reliability (Dec. 2018, pg. 61) in a compact luxury class vehicle. I answered a comprehensive CR survey earlier this year with the highest marks in every category. So, who the heck is knocking the Stinger? Since when does a new Kia have reliability issues? The Audi A4 and BMW 3 series are typically more problematic when reviewed in long term tests by the automotive press. Even if you don't trust CR as a knowledgeable source of enthusiast info on cars, these surveys are supposedly driven by user ratings only. And CR doesn't take advertising, so that is not a factor. Any ideas?
     
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  2. SKStinger

    SKStinger Canada Active Member

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    I'm not surprised by that rating. There have been quite a few issues discussed on this forum. A lot of them specific to the 2018 model year but here are a few:

    paint adherence
    brake rotor/pads
    rattling hatch
    climate control
    grinding while turning
    audio fade issue
    cabin wind noise
    and to a lesser frequency, fuel pump and turbo failures

    I've owned two new Audi's and have been a forum member on Audizine for years and have never seen a list this significant for any one model year.

    Granting grace that the Stinger is a net new model for Kia and I have not experienced any of these issues on my 2019 (knock on wood!) so hopefully that rating will climb for 2019.
     
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  3. Joseph Spiegel

    Joseph Spiegel United States Stinger Enthusiast Sustaining Member

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    I think they also downgraded Kia as a whole. I’ve read enough that I’m not doubting the ratings. SKs list is a good start. So far I’m not having issues at 3300 miles.
     
  4. RVance

    RVance United States Active Member Sustaining Member

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    Kia went from 3rd to 5th in overall reliability, with Mazda and Subaru climbing into the top 5. So, they still rate very well as a whole, and above Audi and BMW as a marque. Any individual anecdotal experience may not rise to the level of a trend or systemic problem. A lot of the issues I've seen discussed here are not really matters of reliability. I wonder if some of them are not a lack of familiarity with the electronic systems and how they function. The layers of adjustability within each program have confused some owners and are not a reliability issue. Some of the complaints are even questionable, and have been posted by members who don't own Stingers, lol.

    The likelihood of a significant number of Stinger owners also being CR members seems remote, also. The number responding to a lengthy survey would seem to be a smaller group than would establish a significant sample size. I was kind of surprised Stingers were even included, given the very low sales numbers.
     
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  5. gilthanis1

    gilthanis1 United States Active Member

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    Ya gotta think too, some people are nit picky enough that they'll rate a car with 1-star if they have to so much as come in for a recall for ANY small thing before the warranty is up. Then again, some people are so blind that they will rate anything 5-stars so they won't feel bad about their purchase.

    Read any Amazon reviews lately?? lol
     
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  6. Ucinn

    Ucinn United States Stinger Enthusiast Sustaining Member

    I used to be a CR subscriber. But after their reviews of some products knowing they were crap from other sites and reviews and personal use, seeing their reviews as a best buy, I don't have any trust in their reviews anymore.
     
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  7. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 2500 Posts Club!

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    Other than brakes and the even more rare fuel pump and turbo complaints, nothing on your short list is a "reliability" issue. But I am probably not understanding what goes into "reliability". To me, niggling, nagging imperfections don't rise to the "reliable ride" level. If the judgment is inclusive of all such minor annoyances, then what about the paint I've read about here on Bimmers? The "catastrophic engine failures"? This is the first mention of "grinding while turning" that I have read about; I think; and if it isn't, then it is referencing the only time I ever heard about it and that would have been months ago.

    Almost the entire short list is affecting only a small minority of vehicles; not the model as a whole.

    Anecdotal evidence from my experience doesn't partake of a single item from this or any other short list. I have 13K miles and nothing has crapped out on me or signaled troubles ahead.
     
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  8. gilthanis1

    gilthanis1 United States Active Member

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    Couldn't have said it better myself Merlin. But when people fill these out, most of them don't think logically. They would mark it as 'unreliable' if they had a hatch rattle and a 30 min dealer visit fixed the problem and they've never had another issue. For me to qualify something as unreliable, means it renders the product/vehicle/etc completely unable to be used for it's intended purpose for an extended period of time that was caused by no fault of my own.

    If I've slapped on a piggyback, intake, exhaust, and a water/meth kit and they turbo grenades itself, or a piston flies through the hood, thats NOT a reliability issue. Thats a dam owner issue that is not anyones fault but my own.

    I've been without my car for 9.5 weeks waiting on paint, I FINALLY get it back after work today as it's already been approved by the Kia inspector as of 1930 last night. Thats NOT a reliability issue. Did it horribly unequivocally suck balls? Absolutely, but it didn't hinder the reliability of the vehicle. The hatch was rattling and the dealer fixed it at my 2nd oil change at 5k miles. Theres a recall going out for them to check the wiring harness at the end of December which I will get fixed and I had the head unit replaced while it was being painted. I chalk it up to a few brand new model bugs, but nothing that an established brand hasn't experienced on established models. I could still hop in a drive every single day and not think twice about it leaving me on the side of the road, and I still won't.

    Always remember, a PERSON can be smart, but PEOPLE as a group can be dumb and scary and won't listen to reason.
     
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  9. GronkSoyFiesta

    GronkSoyFiesta United States Active Member

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    Except the survey doesn’t ask for subjective perception of reliability, it asks about the problems owners face. I answered the JD Power survey honestly and will do so on the CR survey when I get it. These companies use that as a proxy for reliability and I think that’s reasonable. CR then has the ability to show these metrics over time, which I find useful. You can drill into the score to see if the problems are power train, electronics, etc and decide if those are big enough of a factor to influence a purchasing decision. Individually they may not be, but collectively they most definitely should be.

    I define reliability as the ability to perform a job I’ve hired the object to do. If my car were to be in the shop for 2+ months being repainted it most definitely isn’t doing its job.

    The bigger issue with the CR review is they didn’t drive the GT.
     
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  10. NS_Stinger

    NS_Stinger Canada Active Member

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    The Stinger hasn’t been without it’s problems. Creaks and rattles that Kia has no true fix for, brake rotor issues, major paint issues, issues with the sound system etc. This car has problems, they’re not strand you on the side of the highway problems but problems nonetheless. I’m annoyed that my car seems to have most of these issues except for the paint so Maybe this is the kick in the ass Kia needs to solve or make good on some of these annoying issues they don’t really seem to be resolving (other than the paint which they handled very well).
     
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  11. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 2500 Posts Club!

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    How do you know what Kia is doing about "these other problems"? I don't. What I do know is that I don't hear much carping about any of them. A handful of complaints on this Forum and zip in the reviews for most of them. The "hatch rattle" gets mentioned probably more than the paint in the reviews. There is a fix for that; sometimes. Kia is fixing it at home, count on it. Has any MY19 come back with the hatch rattle complaint yet? Paint? Imploding turbos? Etc?

    "Major paint issues". No. Minor paint issues. Not minor to the THE car owner who has one with failing paint. But the model across the world is not experiencing anything remotely like "major paint issues". If it were, the reviewers would have said a lot about it long before now; instead of nothing about it. Do you know of a review of the Stinger that says "the paint on this car is crap", in so many words? The only news story was exclusively about the factory letter to the Yellow owners, which Kia is addressing with unprecedented devotion to customer satisfaction (despite a handful of still, justifiably, annoyed and seriously put out owners).
     
  12. Joseph Spiegel

    Joseph Spiegel United States Stinger Enthusiast Sustaining Member

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    I would value a CR review over any random review. They buy their products and review them based on a scientific system. They IMHO are totally credible and have strived to remain independent. A totally different metric from an Amazon user review or other sources that take provided examples to review.

    Also, CR weights the criticisms. A hatch rattle, while an issue if it’s reported many times, isn’t the same as pistons flying through the hood. That out ranks the former.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
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  13. eflyguy

    eflyguy United States 1000 Posts Club! Staff Member Moderator

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    .. and I would respectfully, but whole-heartedly disagree.

    The source of data for their ranking is the average consumer. I posted a comment about this elsewhere today, but the average consumer is pretty simple, and can't begin to comprehend minor technical matters. Therefore, as "enthusiasts" - who actually do have an above-average grasp of these technical things - consider that knowledge gap before trusting that data. The people writing the summaries are also average (or, perhaps, below)..
     
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  14. Bear

    Bear United States Active Member

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    ...and

    - Weatherstripping coming out in multiple places
    - Rocks filling up and bouncing out of brake vents
    - Seat controls intermittently working
    - Black chrome impossible to keep clean for 2 minutes
    - Sunroof creaking and popping when pulling into driveway
    - Fuel door freezes shut and have to use credit card to open

    I’m sure there are plenty more. I have my honest feedback in the survey.

    I do like the car, but have had many issues and while not major...are still issues. My 2012 and 2014 Optimas were rock solid.
     
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  15. GronkSoyFiesta

    GronkSoyFiesta United States Active Member

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    I don’t think we can say the paint issue isn’t severe because reviewers don’t mention it. Most auto reviews are essentially test drives with very new cars, and I’ve never seen paint mentioned, good or bad, in any review. And this is precisely why I have some buyer’s remorse despite very thorough research. Had I known it was an issue beyond the yellow color, I would have waited.

    Also not sure why you continue to minimize the numbers. It’s not a handful. We can identify hundreds from the forums and Facebook groups. This from a car that is selling in very low quantities. And from a severity standpoint it’s a big deal. Unless the whole car gets repainted, it’s never going to match, especially as the years go by.
     
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  16. GronkSoyFiesta

    GronkSoyFiesta United States Active Member

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    The source of nearly every survey you will ever see is the average consumer. One doesn’t need to understand technical matters to respond to a CR survey and their auto writers are pretty good. Given my car will never see the track, the CR writer’s opinion is probably more representative to me than that of Road and Track.
     
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  17. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 2500 Posts Club!

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    How many of those are duplication? Complaints know no relief; speaking out is the only way to make it any better. Repeat as necessary! :p

    On this forum alone (arguably the largest grouping of Stinger owners), we have relatively few complaints compared to the size of our membership (now over 5K): paint is far and away the largest category of complaints; the Yellow Discussion thread is pages and pages longer than any other color, simply over paint. Rattles and other annoying noises, in total, may exceed paint complaints; but that is because noise is so subjective an irritant. What one pair of ears cannot ignore, another pair of ears doesn't even pick up. The sum of complaints from "wind whistle/wuffle" to loose object down inside the door, through sunroof and hatch rattles, amounts to a lot of "noise" but affects very few cars out of the total sold thus far (which is somewhere around 30K worldwide). I keep repeating this litany of "denial" because if we listen to the plethora of complaints on just this forum alone we will get a distorted view of how "bad" this model is. "Hundreds" out of c. 30K is not a lot of complaints for a first year model; especially when so many of the complaints are for seldom repeated issues, i.e. this particular vehicle suffered a flaw in construction which got by the individual vehicle inspection, etc. It is not an indicator of a failure in the construction process, but rather imperfection both in the process and human intervention, which will never be perfect.
     
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  18. GronkSoyFiesta

    GronkSoyFiesta United States Active Member

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    Unless you work for Kia how can you possibly know how many or how few cars are affected? You’re also quoting a WW sales number. Does the “hundreds” become more significant when we look at just US sales? I’m going to make a leap and assume you’re not perusing Korean forums. And I’m not at all sure how you arrived at the conclusion there are relatively few complaints in this forum. I think there’s a little cognitive dissonance happening here.

    My car has 1200 miles and has: the radio fading and popping problems which will require complete head replacement and a day in the shop, door seal problem, sunroof seal problem, early seat/bolster wear problem (and no, I’m not going to accept I need to learn how to properly seat myself in the car to avoid it; it’s a design and quality flaw), and paint flaws. I have owned upscale brands like BMW and Lexus, midrange like Acura and VW, and lower end like Mitsubishi and Jeep. Other than the 1993 Grand Cherokee, I’ve never owned a car that had so many issues out if the gate. Is the Stinger a fun car: yes. Is it high quality: not so much. Will I ever buy another? That remains to be seen.

    I’ll let you in on a secret: I do product development research for a living for a company that sells products that scale in the hundreds of millions, and early qualitative feedback is an incredibly powerful signal in our feedback loop. From the above, I am a sample of n=1, but we are now seeing that my qualitative insights are matching others. And we have a highly credible, objective third party in CR that folks are so quick to dismiss.

    You also used the “for a first year model” qualifier, which is letting Kia off the hook for a car that can cost up to $53.5k. My first year Acura had a glovebox rattle and then never had an unscheduled repair required for 90,00 miles. Our Lexus, while not a first year model, has had exactly zero unscheduled repairs.

    For many who spent this much, their psychology won’t afford them the ability to see the flaws (or they will be quick to dismiss or minimize the experiences of others), so they are likely to be promoters or passives. Please don’t be so quick to suggest there’s nothing to see here, because our own eyes and others as well tell us there is.

    n.b if the paint issues were so isolated why would you feel compelled to tell a prospective buyer (today) to check the paint?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018 at 11:50 AM
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  19. MerlintheMad

    MerlintheMad United States 2500 Posts Club!

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    Perhaps. It could also be a differing opinion on what "a lot" or "relatively few" is. In total is not as important as how many cases of a particular failure or issue with the car.
    I'm not one of them. I just feel that it needs dissecting rather than just taking the report at face value.
    I disagree. The warranty is there to cover the individual slips due to new manufacturing processes with a new car. Kia is not even trying to get "off the hook".
    Now you are psychoanalyzing. All we can engage in is differing opinions about how a majority of other Stinger owners behave. For instance, I see the opposite of what I think you are implying here: which is "many" won't accept reality. My reality is obviously different from yours: you have 1200 miles and a list of things that range from imperfections to aggravating flaws: I have c. 13,000 miles and haven't seen a thing wrong with my car so far. Worlds apart, it seems. Two individual automobiles manufactured as exactly the same way as humanly possible with a new set of factory processes: yet with dramatically different results (I hope that you get all of your issues attended to with alacrity and complete satisfaction). I see the great majority of Stinger owners on this forum having the same experience as my own; or nearly the same, with only one or possibly a couple of minor issues.
    Minimize the incidence of disappointment. Most people looking at buying MY18s now are looking at Blue, Red and Black. Even though the incidence is less than 5% in total, why would I not say something about that?
     
  20. eljay

    eljay United States Stinger Enthusiast

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    CR has less than 12 months of U.S. data on the Stinger, and probably on the low side of, or maybe even fewer than, their usual 200 to 400 cars sampled per model. When this happens, they say that "we use brand history and the reliability of similar models that may share major components in calculating our predictions." Don't the Kia models that are reported to be bursting into flames for an as-yet-undetermined reason (Optima, Sorrento, Sonata, Santa Fe, as reported by CR about the time they started collecting data for this rating) also have the 2.0 engine? If so, this may have had a big influence on the Stinger's reliability rating, since CR couldn't possibly have a large sample, and no more than 9 months of data on the Stinger, unless they also questioned owners outside the U.S. I don't know—do they?

    Check out their page on how they determine the ratings: Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ
     
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