Brake pad deciphering

[bpang1]

I thank you for your patronage.

Not pointing fingers at all. Just a question.

It's always been a question of mine. How do you go on a track and drive with insufficient brakes? Early on I faded Hawk HP+ on my WRX at Summit Point. I wrecked my Corvette due to what is called 'ice mode' (and soem red mist) and I had a caliper come loose on an E30. If it looks bad I change it.

I wouldn't even consider a Stinger on track unless I had strong race pads. Seems pointless otherwise. How do you go fast without brakes?

The result of no brakes is potentially wrecking and injury, the result of no engine is pulling over. Seems like an easy decision of what to spend on.

As far as the product question.

China is not yet making good race friction. (Powerstop). It seems to fall apart when put to the test. EBC has not fared much better IMO.

The Stinger is heavy and fast with good sized rotors and smallish pads - and you are not likely on race tires. So I'd run a medium friction pad that was durable. Raybestos ST-43, Pagid Yellow or PFC 08. Everyone makes the front D1001 shape, but unfortunately few make the rear.

PS Has anyone figured out if the 17mm thick D10012 pad fits in front? That's 8 mm of pad material pre set if so.

I've been trying not to have to do too much to prep for track days is all...I only go once or maybe twice a year. I was hoping to find a pad that could handle 20 minute sessions but still be OK on the street. I'm not a track-rat and if I was, I wouldn't be running this Stinger out there. But it is what I currently have for fun (I have a kid and trying for another).

Maybe I'm asking for too much?

I don't see any of those on your site for the Stinger.

 

[KNSBrakes]

I've been trying not to have to do too much to prep for track days is all...I only go once or maybe twice a year. I was hoping to find a pad that could handle 20 minute sessions but still be OK on the street.

That can work on a Miata - Hawk HP+ or whatever.

That does not really work on a Stinger (too heavy, small pads), or an STi (too hard on the front brakes), Camaro SS (too hard on all the brakes) or etc.

Stinger demand is primarily street with some AX and an entry level HPDE. I can't see a bunch of guys in the red group with your car. Learning brakes as track protocol is for everyone though.

 

[bpang1]

That can work on a Miata - Hawk HP+ or whatever.

That does not really work on a Stinger (too heavy, small pads), or an STi (too hard on the front brakes), Camaro SS (too hard on all the brakes) or etc.

Stinger demand is primarily street with some AX and an entry level HPDE. I can't see a bunch of guys in the red group with your car. Learning brakes as track protocol is for everyone though.

Yeah slot me right in that entry-level HPDE...that's where I'm at exactly.

What brake pads on your site would you get?

 

[KNSBrakes]

If it's your first DE - you could run a Hawk HP+ or similar. Good bite for brake feel and stopping power, much better fade resistance than 'OEM' or street pads but not full race pads yet. That would probably get you through enough time where you could look at a track pad like the Raybestos ST-43 or similar. I'd do high temp fluid as well.

 

[KNSBrakes]

If you are in a higher run group and pushing the car I'd run a Raybestos ST-43. Medium friction/great wear/plenty of heat headroom. I'd expect high brake wear on track.

 

[turboAWD]

So....I take it no one has tried the G-Loc pads.

I guess I'll have to be the guinea pig. Damn front rotors are pulsating at freeway speeds. Rebedding has solved it before, but it keeps coming back.

I'll try out their street pads.

Sorry, missed this.. I'm running G-loc "bobcat"-like pads (street pads - apparently G-loc is a carbotech clone). Getting some squeal at 3-5 mph when stopping, mostly seems to be passenger side. Strangely enough, got the same thing with my Legacy GT + Wilwood adapter + wilwood calipers with various pads (R4-S and B10). In that case, there was a slight lip on the pad where it wasn't 100% lined up with the rotor, had to file it down a bit. Not sure if that's the issue here.

Also got some G-loc race pads, but haven't had a chance to try them - my first HPDE was supposed to have been in March, canceled 3 days before due to Covid..

I bought some used drilled/slotted roters + dba sp500 pads from someone on here. Ran them for a bit, lots of vibration (due to the drilled/slotted, I guess). Have not tried just the sp500 pads on OEM rotors.

 

[laynevans]

I've been keeping on eye on this thread as I've had trouble with brakes at track days. I've replaced the front disks so I don't get the shudder that standard disks and pads can have. At a track day though with standard pads they fade after a few laps, it's bearable and I just have to brake sooner. If I use race pads the shuddering returns, so bad that after a few laps I can't use them and I exit the track. I've only ever done things to the front. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Stinger GT SS]

I've been keeping on eye on this thread as I've had trouble with brakes at track days. I've replaced the front disks so I don't get the shudder that standard disks and pads can have. At a track day though with standard pads they fade after a few laps, it's bearable and I just have to brake sooner. If I use race pads the shuddering returns, so bad that after a few laps I can't use them and I exit the track. I've only ever done things to the front. Any advice is appreciated.

Try dba XP I’m running these up front with SP on the rears with dba slotted rotors since January, great combination.

 

[oddball]

You didn't go for the armored vehicle configuration?

 

[KNSBrakes]

I've been keeping on eye on this thread as I've had trouble with brakes at track days. I've replaced the front disks so I don't get the shudder that standard disks and pads can have. At a track day though with standard pads they fade after a few laps, it's bearable and I just have to brake sooner. If I use race pads the shuddering returns, so bad that after a few laps I can't use them and I exit the track. I've only ever done things to the front. Any advice is appreciated.

Shudder is almost always pads deposits/overheated pads etc. If the pad has a suitable temp. range for the application that should not occur. It is usually visible as pad smear on the disc as well.

I think someone should try a Raybestos ST-43 front and rear pad and go track the hell out of it. They are robust and well behaved on 4000 lb SS Camaro's and Mustangs so they should not be overwhelmed on a Stinger.

-Ken

 

[laynevans]

Try dba XP I’m running these up front with SP on the rears with dba slotted rotors since January, great combination.
View attachment 50673View attachment 50674

That's the exact disks I have replaced the front with but using EBC Yellow Stuff pads on the front. Have you done any track worth with your combination?

 

[laynevans]

Shudder is almost always pads deposits/overheated pads etc. If the pad has a suitable temp. range for the application that should not occur. It is usually visible as pad smear on the disc as well.

I think someone should try a Raybestos ST-43 front and rear pad and go track the hell out of it. They are robust and well behaved on 4000 lb SS Camaro's and Mustangs so they should not be overwhelmed on a Stinger.

-Ken

Strange that going back to the stock pad the shuddering goes away. Or the shuddering is definitely only inherent in the pad, not the disk at all...?

 

[Stinger GT SS]

That's the exact disks I have replaced the front with but using EBC Yellow Stuff pads on the front. Have you done any track worth with your combination?

No track on my combination but they do perform well with heavy road use.
You may also note dba do a track pad, maybe worth a look.

 

[Stinger GT SS]

That's the exact disks I have replaced the front with but using EBC Yellow Stuff pads on the front. Have you done any track worth with your combination?

I sent you a message through Messenger

 

[KNSBrakes]

Strange that going back to the stock pad the shuddering goes away. Or the shuddering is definitely only inherent in the pad, not the disk at all...?

What pads are you using? Mixing/use level - there are lots of possibilities. I can only say what is most likely given what you shared.

 

[friss]

I ran 3 track days on OEM pads + rotors (NCCAR, Charlotte Roval) with Motul 600 brake fluid and but neither track has super heavy brake zones back to back so the brakes held up (though I started to turn the rotors blue and you could feel the shuddering from deposits)

I did replace the pads for 2 days at VIR. For VIR I went with Hawk HPS 5.0 in the front and EBC Yellow in the rear on stock rotors. With these I had plenty of brake for the weekend. But while I was there I chatted with @KNSBrakes and going to try and work with him on testing out some more aggressive configurations for the brakes on the track.

OEM Fronts


OEM Rears

 

[laynevans]

What pads are you using? Mixing/use level - there are lots of possibilities. I can only say what is most likely given what you shared.

The ones that caused shudder were the ebc yellow stuff. There supposed to be good, were recommended but I've since had different recommendations.

F906 HC+ - Project-Mu Australia

Project-Mu HC+ (Hyper Carbon +) is mainly used in street, track and rally conditions. HC+ is more aggressive than NS but has excellent fade resistance and superior braking control. Capable of operating at temperatures up to 800ºC, this pad will handle most serious applications. HC+ pads are the...

projectmuaustraliacom.wpcomstaging.com

 

[Stinger GT SS]

The ones that caused shudder were the ebc yellow stuff. There supposed to be good, were recommended but I've since had different recommendations.

F906 HC+ - Project-Mu Australia

Project-Mu HC+ (Hyper Carbon +) is mainly used in street, track and rally conditions. HC+ is more aggressive than NS but has excellent fade resistance and superior braking control. Capable of operating at temperatures up to 800ºC, this pad will handle most serious applications. HC+ pads are the...

projectmuaustraliacom.wpcomstaging.com

If you get these, keep us posted on fit & performance.

 

[KNSBrakes]

Yellow stuff are OK pads but struggle on heavy/hard on brakes cars if you track them.

The Focus RS guys found this out as well. They are more of an aggressive street pad than track pad.

There are plenty of good track pad options now.

 

[bpang1]

Shudder is almost always pads deposits/overheated pads etc. If the pad has a suitable temp. range for the application that should not occur. It is usually visible as pad smear on the disc as well.

I think someone should try a Raybestos ST-43 front and rear pad and go track the hell out of it. They are robust and well behaved on 4000 lb SS Camaro's and Mustangs so they should not be overwhelmed on a Stinger.

-Ken

Never been able to figure out how to get the ST-43.

KNS - have you had anyone try these on a stinger or similar? https://www.knsbrakes.com/c/car-ser...+350mm+Front+Disc/935_Girodisc+S/S+Brake+Pads