AWD or RWD

[Guardsred997]

Not trying to hijack this thread into a AWD vs RWD, but here is the video I was talking about in an earlier post:

I like both, and would drive both!!!!

 

[MerlintheMad]

1:17, "RWD is about 400 lbs lighter". Eer? That's wrong. AWD is just under 200 lbs heavier.

"I fake it as a race car driver", and he and the narrator look like identical twins, which is kind of weird.

Interesting comments section (including "they're twins" ) Someone else called BS on the "400 lbs heavier AWD" "factoid".

 

[Guardsred997]

1:17, "RWD is about 400 lbs lighter". Eer? That's wrong. AWD is just under 200 lbs heavier.

"I fake it as a race car driver", and he and the narrator look like identical twins, which is kind of weird.

Interesting comments section (including "they're twins" ) Someone else called BS on the "400 lbs heavier AWD" "factoid".

It would be nice to have a legit magazine do a comparison on the two cars with a well respected driver. This guy is by no means Walter Röhrl, but he probably demonstrates a better than average driver on the track.
It’s interesting that a Kia dealer in Colorado did this comparison. I would think they would want to sell as many AWD Stinger GT’s as they could in the mountains.

 

[Guardsred997]

I guess i spoke too soon!

Motor Trend RWD vs AWD Thoughts

 

[itguy61]

Mistermac I am not going to argue with you anymore. This is my last post on this.

The sales figures for most manufacturers came out today as they do every month and you can go look for yourself. Do the math mister. With the exception of the Altima (and only on the most recent model) none of these passenger cars have AWD even available. Accords, Camry's, Civics, Corollas, Fusions, Sentras, Sonatas, and Optimas do not offer AWD models at all. Accords and Camry's sell more cars a year than all of the brands you listed combined. You can see this for yourself in the sales figures. This is not my opinion, this is published sales results. Mercedes, BMW and Audi combined don't sell a million cars a year in the US. Honda and Toyota sell that many Accords and Camrys by themselves in a year. The cars that account for the majority sales in the US don't even offer AWD so I don't see anyway that it is possible for AWD passenger cars to be anywhere close to FWD cars sales.

My GSM friend said that they do not see demand for AWD cars at his dealership. People are not asking for them on a regular basis.

You are also misrepresenting what I said in that I never made the statement "awd has no value outside of ice and snow and bad weather conditions". I stated that that is the number 1 reason people for them in areas that have bad weather is due to the superior traction. Hell people talk about that here all the time.

I have made no assertions about resale value whatsoever. My assertions about how I feel about AWD handling is my opinion. My statement about it being hard to find AWD cars outside of Subarus and Audis in Texas is very obvious by looking at dealer stocks. Sorry dude but AWD cars are more popular in colder states than warm states, don't blame me for this.

And no, DFW is not a high rain area. Until the last couple of years we were under a declared drought every summer with watering restrictions. I live here and have lived here for 50 years so don't tell me about the DFW area. I hardly ever have to drive in rain.

I worked in the car business for 7 years in sales and f&I in Toyota and VW dealerships. I know a bit about the business. Even in the Toyota dealership we sold way more 2wd trucks than 4wd trucks, mainly due to price differences. The VW's had synchro models and we had a tough time selling the few we got .

I would think in your line of work you would have taken some kind of statistics class. When the overwhelming majority of mass market cars don't even offer AWD it is statistically impossible for AWD cars to be a large portion of total sales. The vast majority of cars sold are FWD. As for resale value, of Course the average car with AWD is going to wholesale and resale higher and the price is usually at least $2k higher going in so no idea why you bring this up.

And I don't want to hear about 4x4 trucks, suv and cuv models because I am not talking about them. I am talking about passenger cars.

And you have a right to your opinion about AWD VS RWD on these cars is simply your opinion. We all have opinions just like we all have a**holes. My opinion is the AWD in this car is not as playful, has number steering and has the potential for more repair bills due to complexity.

You once pm'd me and said you have argued and had a run in with another member, now I see why. You seem to want to throw your credentials out there as a big finance executive and that is the end of it because you are the expert. Sorry but I just am not that interested. I am finished arguing with you.

 

[itguy61]

I guess i spoke too soon!

Motor Trend RWD vs AWD Thoughts

I guess I am not the only one who feels this way about the difference in the way the two cars drive. I have only owned one AWD car, an A4 Quattro, and I never felt that it was that much fun or playful to drive.

 

[itguy61]

Interesting on the times and observations of the guy driving on the track. I do know one way AWD is better and that is on FWD cars with too much power for FWD to handle. I had a Mazdaspeed 3 that had WAY too much power over the front wheels. It would overwhelm the traction control in the first three gears and torque steered like crazy. This car would have been considerably fast with AWD and not sitting there burning off the front tires.

 

[itguy61]

1:17, "RWD is about 400 lbs lighter". Eer? That's wrong. AWD is just under 200 lbs heavier.

"I fake it as a race car driver", and he and the narrator look like identical twins, which is kind of weird.

Interesting comments section (including "they're twins" ) Someone else called BS on the "400 lbs heavier AWD" "factoid".

Yep 400 lbs is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[Lawrence Williams]

I guess I am not the only one who feels this way about the difference in the way the two cars drive. I have only owned one AWD car, an A4 Quattro, and I never felt that it was that much fun or playful to drive.

I'm not as versed as most of you guys in "playful or fun to drive" but my GT2 AWD is an absolute BLAST moving in and out of traffic......I have no intentions of tracking my machine .....but getting off the line , moving away from slow bad drivers gets done properly...... not looking to drift or kick out my rear , burn my rear tires or any of things deemed "fun" ....lol

 

[Manaz]

This post isn't meant to be argumentative, but rather to clarify the ambiguity of my previous statement.

Your post was great, thank you. I've marked it as informative, because it very much was.

 

[Guardsred997]

Interesting on the times and observations of the guy driving on the track. I do know one way AWD is better and that is on FWD cars with too much power for FWD to handle. I had a Mazdaspeed 3 that had WAY too much power over the front wheels. It would overwhelm the traction control in the first three gears and torque steered like crazy. This car would have been considerably fast with AWD and not sitting there burning off the front tires.

I had a Mazdaspeed 3 as well. Traded it in after half a year because the torque steer was so bad. FWD never again!

 

[Manaz]

I guess I am not the only one who feels this way about the difference in the way the two cars drive. I have only owned one AWD car, an A4 Quattro, and I never felt that it was that much fun or playful to drive.

The way that Audi (and Volkswagen for that matter, their cars run on shared platforms) do Quattro is completely different to the way many manufacturers do "proper" AWD. The Quattro system is a FWD-biased on-demand system based on a Haldex controller - most of the time (except maybe on the RS models) it's FWD until slip is detected.

 

[Manaz]

Interesting on the times and observations of the guy driving on the track. I do know one way AWD is better and that is on FWD cars with too much power for FWD to handle. I had a Mazdaspeed 3 that had WAY too much power over the front wheels. It would overwhelm the traction control in the first three gears and torque steered like crazy. This car would have been considerably fast with AWD and not sitting there burning off the front tires.

Torque steer in high-powered FWDs can be a nightmare. Ford dealt with it reasonably well via their "Revoknuckle" front suspension setup on the Focus RS, but the Mazda 3 MPS was insane with it.

 

[itguy61]

I had a Mazdaspeed 3 as well. Traded it in after half a year because the torque steer was so bad. FWD never again!

They should have followed Subaru and made it AWD. You can only send so much power through the front wheels.

 

[itguy61]

The way that Audi (and Volkswagen for that matter, their cars run on shared platforms) do Quattro is completely different to the way many manufacturers do "proper" AWD. The Quattro system is a FWD-biased on-demand system based on a Haldex controller - most of the time (except maybe on the RS models) it's FWD until slip is detected.

Yep, I am not a big fan of these systems. Basically FWD cars that can send some power to the rear wheels when spin happens. And talk about front heavy. Stinger is a much better AWD car, RWD car that sends some power through the front tires. Much better weight balance too.

 

[Manaz]

Yep, I am not a big fan of these systems. Basically FWD cars that can send some power to the rear wheels when spin happens. And talk about front heavy. Stinger is a much better AWD car, RWD car that sends some power through the front tires. Much better weight balance too.

As per my signature, I drove a VW Bora (you called it the Jetta in the US) V6 4Motion for a while. 2.8L narrow angle V6 with the same AWD system (Haldex-based) as Audi use - the term we affectionately used for it was "lead-tipped arrow" - the iron block 24v narrow angle V6 was heavy, and the 02M gearbox tucked into the side of it (with an output for the tailshaft) wasn't light either. I'm not sure if you guys got the Mk4 Golf R32 in the US, but it was effectively the same engine (with a smaller displacement) and drivetrain, and a sedan body instead of the hatch.

I upgraded from the stock controller to the Blue controller (more aggressive engagement of the rear wheels) and then to the competition controller (almost permanent engagement, including under braking), but backed off to the Blue controller because the car crabbed pretty badly when the system was fully engaged even at car-park speeds as there was really no fluid-coupling (torsen, etc) centre diff (so it acted like a locked centre diff on a 4WD). On the track, the competition controller would have been great, but for daily use, it was too much of a compromise).

 

[Manaz]

They should have followed Subaru and made it AWD. You can only send so much power through the front wheels.

Changing the platform to accept an AWD drivetrain would have been a significant undertaking. The car was dropped from the lineup not too long after it was introduced because they didn't sell enough of them to justify the expense - and that was without it having the customised floorpan/etc that an AWD variant would have required, along with changes to the gearbox (you need to produce a tailshaft output), build and engineer a new rear diff, the rear suspension would have had to change, etc).

 

[ElChanclo]

For me AWD is one more useful function of the stinger that puts it above the competition and adds to the practicality of the car.
If I want "steering feel" and "cornering performance" I take the coupe.

 

[nhcowboy28]

AWD is so not fun. And for lady bits.

_Stung_by_Kia_

Scott oliver’s Yellow stinger awd

 

[itguy61]

With all this talk about how superior AWD is I have a question. Why is Kia adding a drift mode to the GTS model coming out? Sounds like there is no need or want since AWD is so beneficial. I guess I live in Bizaroworld as us neanderthals in DFW texas seem to prefer RWD in our performance cars.

A staff member I manage tracks his FRS and we were discussing this yesterday. He said outside of the WRX type vehicles nobody really wants and vehicles for the track. He is real in tune with this crowd, he is a sports car purist freak.