Antigravity batteries.

[djerickd]

No. Year later, everything is good.

Are you still daily-ing the Antigravity? Still no issues thru summer?

 

[Ohiocruiser]

Are you still daily-ing the Antigravity? Still no issues thru summer?

Still driving, without complaints. Since it's in the back, I don't think cold or hot weather is an issue.

 

[STINGER]

Are you still daily-ing the Antigravity? Still no issues thru summer?

Closing on 3 years now, no issues so far. I put it on the trickle charger if I know I wont drive the car for a week or more.

 

[STINGER]

Closing on 3 years now, no issues so far. I put it on the trickle charger if I know I wont drive the car for a week or more.

FYI, the Antigravity battery finally died today. I purchased it in April 2019, so exactly five years. I left it without using the trickle for a couple of weeks, the jump start mode didn't help, I think if I put it on the trickle would have been ok for another year or so.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

FYI, the Antigravity battery finally died today. I purchased it in April 2019, so exactly five years. I left it without using the trickle for a couple of weeks, the jump start mode didn't help, I think if I put it on the trickle would have been ok for another year or so.

To be honest, it's little disappointing. I would've expected more than 5 years out of it. Will see how long I can get out of mine. I drive it every day. Hopefully that prolongs its life. Which one are you gonna replace it with?

 

[STINGER]

To be honest, it's little disappointing. I would've expected more than 5 years out of it. Will see how long I can get out of mine. I drive it every day. Hopefully that prolongs its life. Which one are you gonna replace it with?

me too, i was expecting at least 7. Not sure what im going with, need to research and see whats good in the market.

Any suggestions?

 

[Ohiocruiser]

me too, i was expecting at least 7. Not sure what im going with, need to research and see whats good in the market.

Any suggestions?

I don't have enough knowledge about batteries to give any suggestions. Are you thinking about another lithium one, or regular?

 

[Volfy]

FYI, the Antigravity battery finally died today. I purchased it in April 2019, so exactly five years. I left it without using the trickle for a couple of weeks, the jump start mode didn't help, I think if I put it on the trickle would have been ok for another year or so.

Hate to say this, but using the trickle charger likely caused its early demise. LiFeSO4, like most batt types based on lithium chemistry, don't like being fully charged. At or near 100% charged state encourages lithium dendrites to grow. With enough of them, the cell shorts out and is rendered ineffective. Lots of online resources that describe in detail. Some LiFeSO4 batt mfrs specifically advise against long term storage with a trickle charged attached.

I run Shorai batts in all my motorcycles, and Shorai has its own charge/balancer than has a "storage mode" that essentially drains the batt down to around 60%(?), for this exact reason.

Having said that, no battery types like being fully discharged either, including lithiums. So if you are putting the car away for more than a few weeks, it's best to pull the battery negative cable and disconnect it. This way, you don't need to worry about small parasitic draws eventually draining your battery. But if is less than a couple of weeks, I wouldn't worry about charging the batt, unless you have aftermarket devices (like 24/7 dash cameras) attached that draws current constantly when car is off.

What I would suggest is to get a charger that is specifically designed for LiFeSO4. Use it to charge the batt when needed (like coming out of a month-long storage), but disconnect it as soon as charging is complete. If your LiFeSO4 has a balancing port, a cell balancer is also an excellent idea. I've already got one for my RC cars, so I just use that.

 

[D.J.]

If your LiFeSO4 has a balancing port, a cell balancer is also an excellent idea.

Do any lithium car batteries include an externally accessible balance port?

Never seen that.

Don't they all have internal BMS controllers, allowing them to be compatible with a vehicle alternator?

 

[Volfy]

Do any lithium car batteries include an externally accessible balance port?

Shorai does, which is why I run them on my motorcycles.

Don't they all have internal BMS controllers, allowing them to be compatible with a vehicle alternator?

Balancing is only required periodically. Most of time time, there is no problem running the battery on alternator, just like any other batt type. Also, balancing is more accurately done by selective discharging with rather small discharge current, instead of selective charging with full inrush current from the alternator output voltage. Realistically, trying to bullhead balance the cells while the car (or motorcycle) is in operation is fraught with danger. Done wrong, the attempt to balance can do more harm than good.

For this reason, I've always been a bit leery of those claims of built-in circuitry able to do balancing on the fly. Maybe they are pretty darn smart and can do that effectively and safely. I just prefer to do it externally, with equipment I know exactly how it works. Until enough evidence suggest internal balancing does indeed work.

 

[D.J.]

Shorai does, which is why I run them on my motorcycles.

Balancing is only required periodically. Most of time time, there is no problem running the battery on alternator, just like any other batt type. Also, balancing is more accurately done by selective discharging with rather small discharge current, instead of selective charging with full inrush current from the alternator output voltage. Realistically, trying to bullhead balance the cells while the car (or motorcycle) is in operation is fraught with danger. Done wrong, the attempt to balance can do more harm than good.

For this reason, I've always been a bit leery of those claims of built-in circuitry able to do balancing on the fly. Maybe they are pretty darn smart and can do that effectively and safely. I just prefer to do it externally, with equipment I know exactly how it works. Until enough evidence suggest internal balancing does indeed work.

Does shorai make any automotive batteries? I thought they only did power sport batteries.

Still never seen an automotive battery with externally accessible balance ports.

 

[Volfy]

Does shorai make any automotive batteries? I thought they only did power sport batteries.

Still never seen an automotive battery with externally accessible balance ports.

Not that I know of.

 

[STINGER]

Hate to say this, but using the trickle charger likely caused its early demise. LiFeSO4, like most batt types based on lithium chemistry, don't like being fully charged. At or near 100% charged state encourages lithium dendrites to grow. With enough of them, the cell shorts out and is rendered ineffective. Lots of online resources that describe in detail. Some LiFeSO4 batt mfrs specifically advise against long term storage with a trickle charged attached.

I run Shorai batts in all my motorcycles, and Shorai has its own charge/balancer than has a "storage mode" that essentially drains the batt down to around 60%(?), for this exact reason.

Having said that, no battery types like being fully discharged either, including lithiums. So if you are putting the car away for more than a few weeks, it's best to pull the battery negative cable and disconnect it. This way, you don't need to worry about small parasitic draws eventually draining your battery. But if is less than a couple of weeks, I wouldn't worry about charging the batt, unless you have aftermarket devices (like 24/7 dash cameras) attached that draws current constantly when car is off.

What I would suggest is to get a charger that is specifically designed for LiFeSO4. Use it to charge the batt when needed (like coming out of a month-long storage), but disconnect it as soon as charging is complete. If your LiFeSO4 has a balancing port, a cell balancer is also an excellent idea. I've already got one for my RC cars, so I just use that.

Been using an Optimate TM-471 which is a lithium LiFePO4 specific charger from the battery supplier themselves. Only use it when the car is parked for over two weeks.

 

[D.J.]

Been using an Optimate TM-471 which is a lithium LiFePO4 specific charger from the battery supplier themselves. Only use it when the car is parked for over two weeks.

Wouldn't it have been better for the battery longevity, to do nothing?

Perhaps monitor the voltage periodically, and only charge if the voltage went below ~30%SoC?, which I assume would take several months of storage before self discharge + parasitic draw would deplete the SoC to ~30% or some safe #)

 

[STINGER]

Wouldn't it have been better for the battery longevity, to do nothing?

Perhaps monitor the voltage periodically, and only charge if the voltage went below ~30%SoC?, which I assume would take several months of storage before self discharge + parasitic draw would deplete the SoC to ~30% or some safe #)

No idea to be honest, was following Antigravity instructions.

 

[D.J.]

No idea to be honest, was following Antigravity instructions.

Any warranty?

I know Costco Kirkland AGM batteries have a full free replacement for 5 full years, and then pro-rated after that...

Would be nice if your antigravity, which is SUPPOSED, to last longer, had some warrant

Looks like 3 years free replacement + 2 years pro-rated for antigravity automotive

What was the age of your battery when it failed?

 

[Volfy]

I have an Optimate TM-471 too and use it regularly, though, I do not leave it attached. Regardless of what the charger's claims of being safe to use as a maintainer, the LiFePO4 battery mfr's instructions trumps the charger mfr's. I've yet to come across a LiFePO4 batt mfr that explicitly recommends such practice. Granted, I'm not too familiar with Antigravity, so I looked it up on their FAQ: FAQ: Lithium Starter Batteries

Here's what they say:

Does this battery require trickle charging?
In most cases no… The battery is Maintenance Free and can hold a charge for up to a year PROVIDED the bike/vehicle does not have a PARASITIC DRAIN or accessory taking the energy. IF your vehicle’s charging system is in good working order and you do not have any “parasitic drains” on the bike you should not have to charge this battery; rarely if ever. If you do have longer layoffs, or your bike has accessories creating a drain, you can purchase one of our battery chargers specifically designed for this Lifepo4 technology.

Hmmm... that sounds a lot like what I just wrote a few posts above. Not surprised, since they use the same chemistry as every other LiFEPO4 batt mfr.

How do I store the battery?
In the case that you need to store your bike for a long period of time, you should disconnect the battery. If you’re storing the battery out of the bike just put it in a cool dry place and cover the terminals with tape to protect from accidental shorting of the positive and negative terminals. The battery can hold its charge for 6-8 months from a fully charged state, but you must check the state of charge every 4-5 months to ensure the battery is not over-discharging or it may be damaged. Do not leave a battery connected if you know you will not be riding for a long time.

That is also similar to what I've always read as most LiFePO4 mfrs' standard operating procedure. Again, no surprises there.

How long will the battery last?
This battery should last about 4-5 years, but this will be determined ultimately by how it is used and treated by the consumer. The type of use as a “starter battery” application provides for long life especially if all is well with your electrical system. But in racing and abusive use the lifespan may be much less. Also, parasitic drains or over-discharging or over-charging the battery will shorten life dramatically or ruin the battery. Just make sure you are disconnecting the vehicle if in storage and that you do not over-charge or let the battery drain below 11V and all will be good for a long time.

​

This one did surprise me. So even if you were to do everything right and operate the batt under optimum conditions, which in the cool trunk of a Stinger pretty much is, the average service life expectancy is 4-5yr. To me, that is not acceptable. For comparison, every Shorai battery I've ever bought has pretty much surpassed that 4-5yr mark, with the oldest being more than 12yrs old now and still work fine (though I've relegated to track bike duty, out of an abundance of caution). Heck even a lowly AGM should last longer than 4-5yrs when stored in the cool dark trunk of a Stinger. Last one that crapped out in a RWD platform (my old '09 Genny) lasted 8+yrs.

Frankly, that right there makes me very very hesitant to buy an Antigravity batt. For now, I'm sticking with my Shorais on my bikes. As for automotive... well, we'll see what is available when the time comes. If I cannot find one with an external balance port, I might just stick with good ol' AGM. Unless enough evidence suggest internal balancing actually works well enough.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

That's from antigravity batteries website: The Antigravity Batteries RE-START system offers the latest technology for the safest, longest life cycle possible. Our superior on-board Battery Management System (BMS) offers Safety Circuitry to prevent Over-Discharge and Over-Charge, and has Short-Circuit protections, while additionally offering Cell Balancing and Thermal protections. These advanced features of our BMS make the battery not only as safe as possible, but also extend the life of the battery by keeping the battery in the prime operating zone and not allowing damage to the battery. Therefore creating the longest possible Life Cycle. From 7-9 years are expected from the Antigravity RE-START Batteries depending on use and climate

 

[D.J.]

latest technology for the safest, longest life cycle possible.

For the price, I would expect a MUCH longer warranty.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

For the price, I would expect a MUCH longer warranty.

I won't have a problem buying another one, if I can get 9 years out of it. Mine is little over 2 years old, so will see.