3.3 TT noise on cold startup from high pressure fuel pump is it normal (knock)

[Michael Cervantes]

It's the same sound this tread is talking about. It didn't make it when i bought the freakin car and if it did i wouldn't have bought the freakin car nismo. So there fore its not normal understand.

 

[cncBilly]

Ok I got one word for this thread........normal!!....my job is done here....bye-bye

 

[NismoDPB]

It's the same sound this tread is talking about. It didn't make it when i bought the freakin car and if it did i wouldn't have bought the freakin car nismo. So there fore its not normal understand.

You are being stubborn and dismissive of a very common behaviour with such an engine. Almost all direct injection turbo engines make this sound on cold start, not just this one. It is a characteristic of this engine configuration. And all those companies who use direct injection turbo engines are not suffering issues of "design flaws" or whatever you called it to cold start cam tick from the HPFP.

And despite what you say, your car did it when it was brand new, will continue to do it, and will do it until the heat death of the universe, or it's in a junkyard, whichever comes first.

 

[Toddasaurus]

@Michael Cervantes


Gotta chime in here and say that ever since my car was new, and I first opened the hood upon a cold start, I immediately noticed what sounded like very loud valve tap, primarily on the driver's side bank. Once warmed up this sound essentially went away, though can still be heard when your head is under the hood. At first I was convinced that it had some extra loose valve clearance on that bank, but the more I read about it, and the more I listened, I began to realize what I was hearing was just the high pressure fuel pump (as mentioned in this thread). On top of this, I can also hear the fuel injectors firing, which almost sounds like valve tap as well, though with a slightly different tone. Prior to this understanding, I was getting ready to inspect the clearances of the bucket shims. I've been working on cars for 20 years now, which isn't as long as some people here, but I do have experience diagnosing valvetrain noises, among a lot of other stuff.

Anyway, fact is, modern cam-driven high pressure fuel pumps are loud, having those big cam loves slap against the pump's piston is just noisy. Also, direct injectors are noisy as well, as they fire with SUBSTANTIALLY higher pressure than regular port injectors. In fact, the entire reason you see all that heavy insulation foam underneath the engine cover, around the HPFP, and also wedged in around the top of the engine block - it's all for sound insulation. Like it or not, modern DI engines are noisier than their older, port injection counterparts. It's just part of the design.

All of that said, if Kia diagnosed your car with a problem, then you've got a different sound than what all of us are hearing.

Could they have made a different valvetrain design, in addition to injector and HPFP design that was quieter than it is now? Probably, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to last any longer. Lastly, you mentioned they replaced a camshaft and some "lifters", but this car doesn't use hydraulic lifters in the valvetrain. It sounds like you were misinformed (re: bucket shims.) Sorry. As a mechanic you should know that being stubborn doesn't always fix things, sometimes you need to take a step back and reevaluate the way you're going about fixing a problem.

 

[NS_Stinger]

Chiming in here to say mine is always loud at startup as well and the tapping goes away when the RPM drops about 20secs after startup.

 

[PMB]

Engines are just so sophisticated now that people aren't used to them making different noises for different reasons.

Engines are startup will do a massive variety of things to ease them into operation, especially when they are very cold. The high rev for example, more fuel, more exhaust/intake valve overlap. All of these things help get heat into the cylinder, coolant, and very importantly, heat into the catalytic converter. Emissions is a huge regulatory issue, and some cars even put so much unburnt fuel into the exhaust when cold that it causes backfiring which make the catalytic converter heat up very fast and therefore reduce total emissions. Heating up the Cats will also have the positive effect of not smelling so much smelly exhaust by-products when you first start your car. I bet dealerships used to get a lot of complaints about funny smells, now they get complaints about funny sounds.

 

[CKeeler]

I did something last night that made the noise go away rather quickly. As soon as I started the engine, right after I heard the noise start, I blipped the throttle just a bit. Not much, just brought up around 2500rpm. When it came back down to its high idle the noise was gone. I’m going to try it again today and see if it wasn’t just a fluke. I’m not one to say that you need to rev your engine on cold start, that’s idiotic. Believe me, I’ve seen what happens firsthand when someone revs their modern engine on cold start because they don’t like the noise it makes. I figure a very light blip of the throttle won’t hurt much

 

[Nasscar]

If it is just a normal 'characteristic' of the Stinger engine, who really cares if they hear the noise on startup anyway. It goes away quickly and I just turn up the music on my excellent Harmon Kardon stereo.

 

[Michael Cervantes]

@Michael Cervantes


Gotta chime in here and say that ever since my car was new, and I first opened the hood upon a cold start, I immediately noticed what sounded like very loud valve tap, primarily on the driver's side bank. Once warmed up this sound essentially went away, though can still be heard when your head is under the hood. At first I was convinced that it had some extra loose valve clearance on that bank, but the more I read about it, and the more I listened, I began to realize what I was hearing was just the high pressure fuel pump (as mentioned in this thread). On top of this, I can also hear the fuel injectors firing, which almost sounds like valve tap as well, though with a slightly different tone. Prior to this understanding, I was getting ready to inspect the clearances of the bucket shims. I've been working on cars for 20 years now, which isn't as long as some people here, but I do have experience diagnosing valvetrain noises, among a lot of other stuff.

Anyway, fact is, modern cam-driven high pressure fuel pumps are loud, having those big cam loves slap against the pump's piston is just noisy. Also, direct injectors are noisy as well, as they fire with SUBSTANTIALLY higher pressure than regular port injectors. In fact, the entire reason you see all that heavy insulation foam underneath the engine cover, around the HPFP, and also wedged in around the top of the engine block - it's all for sound insulation. Like it or not, modern DI engines are noisier than their older, port injection counterparts. It's just part of the design.

All of that said, if Kia diagnosed your car with a problem, then you've got a different sound than what all of us are hearing.

Could they have made a different valvetrain design, in addition to injector and HPFP design that was quieter than it is now? Probably, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to last any longer. Lastly, you mentioned they replaced a camshaft and some "lifters", but this car doesn't use hydraulic lifters in the valvetrain. It sounds like you were misinformed (re: bucket shims.) Sorry. As a mechanic you should know that being stubborn doesn't always fix things, sometimes you need to take a step back and reevaluate the way you're going about fixing a problem.

To me it's a bad design my 2014 chevy camaro has direct injection and uses a high pressure fuel pump and it doesn't make a tapping sound at all and like i said before it didn't start making the noise till later on. You people don't want to admit its a bad design that's all im saying.

 

[CVD]

Maybe you're right and it's a bad design. Maybe not. Nothing you've written makes me think you're qualified to make that assessment though. Nearly every car I've owned has had valvetrain noise/tapping when cold, so color me not concerned. If more than 5% of owners start having real problems (like total engine failures) I'll pay close attention. Until then its no different than any other car with valvetrain noise.

 

[NS_Stinger]

To me it's a bad design my 2014 chevy camaro has direct injection and uses a high pressure fuel pump and it doesn't make a tapping sound at all and like i said before it didn't start making the noise till later on. You people don't want to admit its a bad design that's all im saying.

A loud 20 seconds during coldstarts is hardly worth considering an engine as a "bad design". If you do a bit of research this engine is widely praised by automotive journalists, people who do nothing but drive cars and write about them for a living. It's also been used in Genesis models for a few years now and been proven to be reliable.

If you're very sensitive to sound maybe look into trading for a Tesla.

 

[SteveCo]

Praised indeed.

2018 Winner: Kia Stinger 3.3L Twin-Turbo V-6

 

[ecko04]

To me it's a bad design my 2014 chevy camaro has direct injection and uses a high pressure fuel pump and it doesn't make a tapping sound at all and like i said before it didn't start making the noise till later on. You people don't want to admit its a bad design that's all im saying.

Who are “you people”?

You’re being disingenuous or intentionally obtuse.

I have a 2010 Camaro and 2016 Camaro. Both make the same DI and HPFP sound when the engine is cold. The sound minimizes to nearly indistinguishable at operating temperature. There are several threads on the C5 and C6 Camaro Forums about this same thing. In fact GM put out a TSB about the noise in 2012 and has been updated each year to include the subsequent model year even most recently the 2019MY, which is basically for service advisors to educate the customer on how DI works and why they may hear a ticking noise from the side where the HPFP is located.

My 2011 BMW 335i has the same DI tick as does my 2013 Scion FR-S.

I suppose what I’m saying is every car I’ve owned with DI, regardless of brand, region, or engine size and configuration has an identical sound that is reduced when the engine is at operating temp.

 

[Ahawk1968]

Betcha the dealership AND the field tech were just throwing parts at it and hoping for the best. Contrary to popular belief, even dealerships guess sometimes.

....oh, and mine does it too.

 

[Sime]

It’s funny how this motor will run like a champion all day long but some will think it’s broke because it’s ticks.

This thing ain’t no motor built in the 70’s, it’s a whole new breed, ticks and all.

 

[EdsNotHere]

I’ve noticed mine on my G70 has gotten a bit louder now with the temps dropping into the 40’s in the morning vs the 80’s it was during the summer mornings. Mid summer and 110° cold start hardly a noise at all. It’s all temp relative.

 

[MacDogg]

Glad I found this before I became more concerned. I only have about 300 miles on mine and driven it half a dozen times and every time I start it up the ticking scared me. After reading this thread it kinda reminds me that my Optima SXL might have done it, too.

 

[dennycomeon]

sorry, but BMW v6 engines with direct injection are not about this. They do not have loud ticker confusing sound when cold supposedly due to the fuel pump and they are equally performance driven. There is no excuse for buying a 50,000 car and being embarrassed by the engine sounding and being so bad. There is no excuse and I want my fuel replaced and corrected. If not, KIA is not BMW and should be resolved as such and actually banned for sale until they become of age.

 

[CKeeler]

sorry, but BMW v6 engines with direct injection are not about this. They do not have loud ticker confusing sound when cold supposedly due to the fuel pump and they are equally performance driven. There is no excuse for buying a 50,000 car and being embarrassed by the engine sounding and being so bad. There is no excuse and I want my fuel replaced and corrected. If not, KIA is not BMW and should be resolved as such and actually banned for sale until they become of age.

Well hello there. Nice of you to stop by and introduce yourself

 

[Ahawk1968]

Well heck. I want MY fuel replaced too!