Under-Seat Subwoofer Issues

[StungBlueGT2]

I like "On Stage," too, but be aware that it is a "distortion" of the original recording. Most of the time it will sound pleasant and provide a fuller in-car experience, but sometimes it wrecks a recording (often older ones). Caveat emptor.

Any settings other than neutral/0 for Bass, Mid and Treble are also distortions of the original recording. Honestly, unless you have a particular hearing loss at certain frequencies, there is no need to adjust these unless you think you know more than the recording engineers and artists who set those balances appropriately in the original recordings. At least for testing purposes, they should remain neutral. If you really think it sounds better imbalanced in some way, hey, it's your system and your ears. Really high-end stereo systems (for home) do not even provide these controls because a) no one would adjust them, and b) even allowing for an adjustment is a potential source of quality deterioration in between the source and ultimate amplified output to your speakers. Of course, this is just a mainstream car audio system we're talking about, but the principles are the same.

ClariFi--this is an important point. I never use any sources that require it, so haven't played with it. It should help clean-up crap quality MP3s (and all MP3s are crap, sorry to say), Bluetooth (also mediocre) and radio sources, but does it do anything when it is not needed? I would only turn it on if I was certain that it was not operating during the use of high quality sources. Does anyone know? Again, for any testing or comparison, leave it off.

Lastly, lossless USB is the ONLY source that is decent enough to test the quality and robustness of the system. A CD would be, too, but we don't have that option. Enjoy your other low quality music and streaming, as millions do every day on their phones and so forth, but it cannot be used to figure-out if a sub-woofer cross-over is working properly or if a stereo sounds good.

Don't shoot the messenger--it's just the reality that the public has come to accept crap quality music that would make a recording engineer even from the late 1950's cringe. Same thing with video...people watching postage stamp-sized often low quality YouTube, etc., while we have UHD screen technology that old-timers could only have dreamed about.

For the most part I understand your points and agree with your evaluations. However I feel “distortion” and some other word choices used are slightly misleading, especially in this context.

I’m aware “On Stage” mode alters the original sound imaging to individual speakers, but it does not deteriorate the quality of the recording as “distortion” implies. This HK mode is simply a re-engineering of sound imaging customized to the exact dimensions and speaker layout of the Stingers cabin. Most of the time it does provide a much fuller surround sound experience, but will admit occasionally older recordings do sound slightly different. But again saying it “wrecks” the recording is quite extreme. I believe HK audio engineers are well qualified, and read that they did extensive testing in order to enrich user experiences with this technology.

I also understand your “Audiophile” view about altering the basic tone controls, and that the original studio recording format is best. This would be true for $50k+ Home Theatre systems that will perfectly replicate the studio. However I don’t feel that applies in this case or to most OEM car stereos. Every audio system I’ve owned has different advantages(deeper vs tighter bass, mellow vs crisper highs, etc.) This is why almost all audio systems include a basic EQ for user customization.

Also, most users listen to a wide variety of music genres, each with their own priorities when it comes to the original tonal frequencies. A recording of Mozart, will have different bass levels than say Busta Rhymes, Skillex, or Pink Floyd, etc. There is no doubt that leaving the EQ the same for all these would sound over boosted or inadequate at certain frequencies. Now I’m not saying I have more skill than the original sound engineers, but I and most people I know like the ability to adjust EQ levels as needed. I personally feel the Stinger HK system’s mids & highs are extremely crisp but the lows sound best when moderately boosted.

I do agree that the average user now isn’t aware of, or has had the privilege to experience high fidelity audio systems. I cringe when people say Sony or even Bose makes the best speakers, etc.

This is partly why so many people jumped on this thread complaining about the lack of bass from the subwoofers. The HK systems subs were not designed for vibrating the seats, it was designed to seamlessly fill the cabin with omnidirectional bass. Unfortunately most Americans that I’ve encountered just don’t know any better. Like they say ignorance is bliss.

 

[Frubin76]

Yesterday, I visited my audio installer, since they applied ceramic coating in my GT2, he is an expert on car audio and have earned multiple awards on Sound Quality tournaments in Mexico. I told him many people thought the subs were not working, so he listened carefully and told me they are definitely working, but the processing system of the HK systems is designed to "transport" them to the top of the dashboard, so that is why you are not supposed to "feel" them under the seat.
He told me also something interesting, that the system was perfectly balanced to be used with the car parked, but when the car is running, road noise and other noises tend to mask the deep bass sound, so that is why normally car systems tend to use over-boosted bass. He was so right.

 

[Marc Collins]

For the most part I understand your points and agree with your evaluations. However I feel “distortion” and some other word choices used are slightly misleading, especially in this context.

I’m aware “On Stage” mode alters the original sound imaging to individual speakers, but it does not deteriorate the quality of the recording as “distortion” implies. This HK mode is simply a re-engineering of sound imaging customized to the exact dimensions and speaker layout of the Stingers cabin. Most of the time it does provide a much fuller surround sound experience, but will admit occasionally older recordings do sound slightly different. But again saying it “wrecks” the recording is quite extreme. I believe HK audio engineers are well qualified, and read that they did extensive testing in order to enrich user experiences with this technology.

I also understand your “Audiophile” view about altering the basic tone controls, and that the original studio recording format is best. This would be true for $50k+ Home Theatre systems that will perfectly replicate the studio. However I don’t feel that applies in this case or to most OEM car stereos. Every audio system I’ve owned has different advantages(deeper vs tighter bass, mellow vs crisper highs, etc.) This is why almost all audio systems include a basic EQ for user customization.

Also, most users listen to a wide variety of music genres, each with their own priorities when it comes to the original tonal frequencies. A recording of Mozart, will have different bass levels than say Busta Rhymes, Skillex, or Pink Floyd, etc. There is no doubt that leaving the EQ the same for all these would sound over boosted or inadequate at certain frequencies. Now I’m not saying I have more skill than the original sound engineers, but I and most people I know like the ability to adjust EQ levels as needed. I personally feel the Stinger HK system’s mids & highs are extremely crisp but the lows sound best when moderately boosted.

I do agree that the average user now isn’t aware of, or has had the privilege to experience high fidelity audio systems. I cringe when people say Sony or even Bose makes the best speakers, etc.

This is partly why so many people jumped on this thread complaining about the lack of bass from the subwoofers. The HK systems subs were not designed for vibrating the seats, it was designed to seamlessly fill the cabin with omnidirectional bass. Unfortunately most Americans that I’ve encountered just don’t know any better. Like they say ignorance is bliss.

I don't disagree with your analysis, either, but no one here should care either way. I was just trying to ensure people understood what to do to test the system and figure-out if it was working instead of thinking it wasn't working. @Frubin76's post just above also clarifies some of this. We can save audiophile debates for one of their forums.

I wouldn't invest a huge amount of money in car audio for exactly the reason pointed out--sounds great when the car is off and not moving. The amount of time I will be listening to music in my car with it off and not moving is exactly zero. I have a home audiophile system for that. Maybe when they can figure out how to get a tube system to work in a car...

 

[Martin]

Just picked up my new GT 3,3 yesterday NSW Australia, and can definitely agree with about 50% of the people on this post...The subs under the seat do NOT work!. Either the cross over frequencies are set too low or the damn things are disconnected! Has anyone tried opening the amp to see if there is a potentiometer or something to adjust cross over freq.

For those that think there should be a break in period, you are on something unnatural(sorry hope I don't offend). I agree the speakers will improve with time of use, but the difference would be about 5%, not the 95% required for the speakers to work! Maybe I need to take something unnatural to really hear these puppies thump...

Will do some of my own testing and get back to you guys.

 

[Soca Boy]

I like "On Stage," too, but be aware that it is a "distortion" of the original recording. Most of the time it will sound pleasant and provide a fuller in-car experience, but sometimes it wrecks a recording (often older ones). Caveat emptor.

Any settings other than neutral/0 for Bass, Mid and Treble are also distortions of the original recording. Honestly, unless you have a particular hearing loss at certain frequencies, there is no need to adjust these unless you think you know more than the recording engineers and artists who set those balances appropriately in the original recordings. At least for testing purposes, they should remain neutral. If you really think it sounds better imbalanced in some way, hey, it's your system and your ears. Really high-end stereo systems (for home) do not even provide these controls because a) no one would adjust them, and b) even allowing for an adjustment is a potential source of quality deterioration in between the source and ultimate amplified output to your speakers. Of course, this is just a mainstream car audio system we're talking about, but the principles are the same.

ClariFi--this is an important point. I never use any sources that require it, so haven't played with it. It should help clean-up crap quality MP3s (and all MP3s are crap, sorry to say), Bluetooth (also mediocre) and radio sources, but does it do anything when it is not needed? I would only turn it on if I was certain that it was not operating during the use of high quality sources. Does anyone know? Again, for any testing or comparison, leave it off.

Lastly, lossless USB is the ONLY source that is decent enough to test the quality and robustness of the system. A CD would be, too, but we don't have that option. Enjoy your other low quality music and streaming, as millions do every day on their phones and so forth, but it cannot be used to figure-out if a sub-woofer cross-over is working properly or if a stereo sounds good.

Don't shoot the messenger--it's just the reality that the public has come to accept crap quality music that would make a recording engineer even from the late 1950's cringe. Same thing with video...people watching postage stamp-sized often low quality YouTube, etc., while we have UHD screen technology that old-timers could only have dreamed about.

Thank you, lots to learn

 

[Martin]

Ok, I think I found the trick! Huge difference! Simply goto Setup/Audio/Advanced and turn Clarify on then chose "On Stage" and you will see the floor subs kick in! not as much as I would like, but must be because the cross over freq are set too low(below 70Hz). However, take my previous comment back and they do work!

 

[Marc Collins]

Ok, I think I found the trick! Huge difference! Simply goto Setup/Audio/Advanced and turn Clarify on then chose "On Stage" and you will see the floor subs kick in! not as much as I would like, but must be because the cross over freq are set too low(below 70Hz). However, take my previous comment back and they do work!

ClariFi cleans up crap quality sources, so if you are using one of those then it might affect the subs kicking in or not, but not a real solution to anything.

"On Stage" is simply a surround sound profile and should not affect the tones (bass, highs, etc.) of your music at all--just where the sounds appear to be coming from.

If you didn't bother to read the rest of this thread then I will go out on a limb and predict the source you are using to test the subs is poor quality. Try a proper high quality recording that has lots of bass and you will see that they work just fine, but are not intended to be window vibrating rice racer subs. They are intended to accurately reproduce balanced music. Too high-end for a lot of people.

 

[Sensibly Spirited Driver]

I think the system has been designed for high quality source material and in a somewhat snobbish manner similar to all high-end audio equipment, they have ignored everyday and mediocre quality sources--assuming that anyone using those doesn't really care about sound quality. It's no different than a home system...the better it is, the worse anything but the best quality recordings sound.

Actually, and I don't have the HK system, but HK specifically markets it for poor quality digital sources: Clari-Fi by Harman

The issue I have with my GT speaker system is that even with the trebble set to -10, it's still too bright and fatiguing. The speakers, I believe, are fine as is the power, it's just an EQ issue.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[Marc Collins]

Actually, and I don't have the HK system, but HK specifically markets it for poor quality digital sources: Clari-Fi by Harman

The issue I have with my GT speaker system is that even with the trebble set to -10, it's still too bright and fatiguing. The speakers, I believe, are fine as is the power, it's just an EQ issue.

Edit: Ninja'd

It isn't designed for crappy sources, but it does have the Clari-Fi logic to clean them up a bit. Most newer audio systems, especially anything from Asia and especially car audio with all the ambient noises, is tilted heavily towards the bright end of the spectrum. Hence why I said earlier to leave everything at neutral, but you are right that even with the trebble backed off it will still be too bright and brassy/harsh if you are used to a properly natural sounding system. There will be no way to address that besides replacing the whole system.

I am extremely picky about audio (have a tube system in my home), but have given up on car audio for natural sound. The last system that was even remotely natural sounding in a car I have owned or driven was my old Volvo S80 V8 with its Alpine/B&O amp and Danish Dynaudio drivers. But again, it sounded fantastic with the car off and not moving. Once all the road and wind noise entered the equation, most people would want more trebble to pick up the details in the music. My more recent Volvos had mediocre Bose systems like every other car. The Stinger is at least a step or two above those.

 

[scharn]

My fender system in the golf was surprisingly good. Very neutral which is what I prefer, coming from a Kef R series home sound system. However the fender subwoofer was horrifically bad. It was the very definition of bloaty bass. Luckily found a guy to make a low profile box and fit a 12 pioneer unit, and powered it off the factory amp.

 

[Leftlane]

It isn't designed for crappy sources, but it does have the Clari-Fi logic to clean them up a bit. Most newer audio systems, especially anything from Asia and especially car audio with all the ambient noises, is tilted heavily towards the bright end of the spectrum. Hence why I said earlier to leave everything at neutral, but you are right that even with the trebble backed off it will still be too bright and brassy/harsh if you are used to a properly natural sounding system. There will be no way to address that besides replacing the whole system.

I am extremely picky about audio (have a tube system in my home), but have given up on car audio for natural sound. The last system that was even remotely natural sounding in a car I have owned or driven was my old Volvo S80 V8 with its Alpine/B&O amp and Danish Dynaudio drivers. But again, it sounded fantastic with the car off and not moving. Once all the road and wind noise entered the equation, most people would want more trebble to pick up the details in the music. My more recent Volvos had mediocre Bose systems like every other car. The Stinger is at least a step or two above those.

Best sounding system I had was back in late 80’s... I had a Nissan 200sx turbo that I put in an after market system Alpine stereo and alpine amp pushing Bose speakers and a homemade subwoofer box installed in the hatch area.
It would shake the entire car but most impressive was the crisp clarity the Alpine produced.
I will take 10 watts of clear sound over 200 watts of distortion any day!
Can still remember cranking Dire Straight’s “Money for nothing”

 

[Marc Collins]

I will take 10 watts of clear sound over 200 watts of distortion any day!

Ditto. With highly efficient speakers (a rarity), a 35W per channel tube amp in my home could rattle the windows with crystal clarity.

We're not going to get high-end audio in any car without doing it yourself. But for me, the HK system is adequate for a car. I don't spend enough time in my car or enjoy listening to music drowned-out by road noise enough to invest in more. Home theatre system, though...can always improve that with some careful investment! I also have a pure stereo music system that is sublime, so don't need to worry too much about the car.

 

[Sensibly Spirited Driver]

It isn't designed for crappy sources, but it does have the Clari-Fi logic to clean them up a bit. Most newer audio systems, especially anything from Asia and especially car audio with all the ambient noises, is tilted heavily towards the bright end of the spectrum. Hence why I said earlier to leave everything at neutral, but you are right that even with the trebble backed off it will still be too bright and brassy/harsh if you are used to a properly natural sounding system. There will be no way to address that besides replacing the whole system.

I am extremely picky about audio (have a tube system in my home), but have given up on car audio for natural sound. The last system that was even remotely natural sounding in a car I have owned or driven was my old Volvo S80 V8 with its Alpine/B&O amp and Danish Dynaudio drivers. But again, it sounded fantastic with the car off and not moving. Once all the road and wind noise entered the equation, most people would want more trebble to pick up the details in the music. My more recent Volvos had mediocre Bose systems like every other car. The Stinger is at least a step or two above those.

I'm not too particular about car audio, as no car audio system is going to sound great (physics). The main thing is that it's not fatiguing. For home use, I have AKG K240's, which have velevty lows and a nice rolloff in the highs, but they aren't perfectly neutral, and have a lean towards the vocal range. They are a bit musical (wouldn't use them for mixing), but are also non-fatiguing for constant use. I've been enjoying them for a decade and a half, and also pair them with a headphone amp that costs about 5 times more than the headphones. I wouldn't call myself an audiophile, but perhaps more concerned than some, if that makes sense. My benchmark car stereo was the one in my 2006 Saab 9-3 Premium. That was replaced by the non-Premium 2008, which sounded awful in comparison. My hope with the GT 9-speaker system is that I can get an external EQ to sort out the overly bright highs, because I have to listen to it very quietly not to cause discomfort, and I prefer to listen to music fairly loud in my car, at least for a time. I also wonder if Kia could not address this with a software update. If that trebble setting could go down another 50%, that might solve it.

 

[Marc Collins]

I'm not too particular about car audio, as no car audio system is going to sound great (physics). The main thing is that it's not fatiguing. For home use, I have AKG K240's, which have velevty lows and a nice rolloff in the highs, but they aren't perfectly neutral, and have a lean towards the vocal range. They are a bit musical (wouldn't use them for mixing), but are also non-fatiguing for constant use. I've been enjoying them for a decade and a half, and also pair them with a headphone amp that costs about 5 times more than the headphones. I wouldn't call myself an audiophile, but perhaps more concerned than some, if that makes sense. My benchmark car stereo was the one in my 2006 Saab 9-3 Premium. That was replaced by the non-Premium 2008, which sounded awful in comparison. My hope with the GT 9-speaker system is that I can get an external EQ to sort out the overly bright highs, because I have to listen to it very quietly not to cause discomfort, and I prefer to listen to music fairly loud in my car, at least for a time. I also wonder if Kia could not address this with a software update. If that trebble setting could go down another 50%, that might solve it.

I hear you on the too bright/fatiguing issue.

Out of interest, what volume level do you use? I find the volume is so loud that I wish it had smaller increments. 6 is adequate; 7 is there; 8 can sometimes be too loud; 10 is most likely too loud for any length of time. Can't imagine using it higher than about 13 or 14, ever.

 

[Marc Collins]

I'm not too particular about car audio, as no car audio system is going to sound great (physics). The main thing is that it's not fatiguing. For home use, I have AKG K240's, which have velevty lows and a nice rolloff in the highs, but they aren't perfectly neutral, and have a lean towards the vocal range. They are a bit musical (wouldn't use them for mixing), but are also non-fatiguing for constant use. I've been enjoying them for a decade and a half, and also pair them with a headphone amp that costs about 5 times more than the headphones. I wouldn't call myself an audiophile, but perhaps more concerned than some, if that makes sense. My benchmark car stereo was the one in my 2006 Saab 9-3 Premium. That was replaced by the non-Premium 2008, which sounded awful in comparison. My hope with the GT 9-speaker system is that I can get an external EQ to sort out the overly bright highs, because I have to listen to it very quietly not to cause discomfort, and I prefer to listen to music fairly loud in my car, at least for a time. I also wonder if Kia could not address this with a software update. If that trebble setting could go down another 50%, that might solve it.

Second question--what surround setting, if any, are you using?

 

[Onno P]

I have an Abarth 595 with the OEM Beats audio upgrade. If the Stinger comes close to that I will be a VERY happy driver. The Beats outperforms any of my (sometimes really ) expensive aftermarket stuff I had installed in previous cars.
So IMHO an awesome OEM sound is possible.

 

[Sensibly Spirited Driver]

Second question--what surround setting, if any, are you using?

There are no surround options in the 9 speaker. I've not disconnected the in-dash speaker to see if it fixes it yet.

 

[Marc Collins]

There are no surround options in the 9 speaker. I've not disconnected the in-dash speaker to see if it fixes it yet.

Sorry, didn't realize you had a different system to me. I was going to say that despite liking the subtlety and artistry that went into the surround options, I have now disabled them precisely because they do add even more brightness/harshness to the treble I have to give up the benefits of the surround (which in a car are nice...wouldn't use it for serious listening in a quiet environment) to be able to tolerate the sound quality for any length of time. Of course and as expected, the output varies quite a bit depending on what music you are listening to. I happened to play a succession of albums that revealed the downside of the surround a lot more than what I had heard earlier. I just can't be bothered turning it on and off for individual albums, even though for some it's OK. It's difficult enough just finding the music I want on the USB stick with the ridiculously bad sorting, scrolling and searching interface.

 

[Onno P]

Does the 9-speaker have subs?

 

[AV8R]

Does the 9-speaker have subs?

No