Questions before installing Stage 2 on Stinger; Gapping Spark Plugs???

[lostangeleman]

Grabbing the Stage 2 Package from the @K8StingerStore very soon. comes with

-MBRP EXHAUST
-INJEN INTAKES
-ADD W1 CATCH CANS (there’s an option to add 2 of these, what would these accomplish and is one needed or two is a safer bet?
-JB4 BLUETOOTH TUNE
- HKS SPARK PLUGS

anything in specific i should know before getting this package installed please let me know. i am a beginner. cousin is a mechanic so he will be handling the install for all these parts. How difficult is it to tune the car? i’ve watched videos on youtube and it seems pretty self explanatory to setup the tune, but (remember i’m completely new to tuning) there’s also been discussion about three things that confuse me.

1. people talk shit about JB4 since it’s just copy and paste files and upload them to the car. i don’t get it, should i find someone who has a Dyno to tune my car for me after getting the mods installed? or am i able to complete the entire process myself

2. what is up with gapped spark plugs. i am always so confused when reading the forum posts about gapping the spark plugs to a specific setting to make the engine run the best (it’s something to do with the combustion within the cylinder???). will i have to have my new HKS spark plugs gapped… if that’s the right way to put it? am i better off going to a regular mechanic shop and have my cousin do the installs (cousin knows his way around modified cars.) or am i better off finding a local tuning shop that can do the work for me.

3. i know the different maps are for different fuel octane levels. i am planning on filling 91+ octane locally and running on its correlating map which supports it. what happens if a family member or someone else fills the tank with 87? will this fry the engine… what would happen in the scenario that the tune is applied and the wrong octane level is used. is there a setting where the tune can be set to off whilst using 87 fuel? i only ask as a safeguard for family members, or for daily driving and keeping the fuel costs low, and filling it up with 91 every weekend for an enjoyable drive.

sorry for all the newbie questions, but i guess everyone starts somewhere! so might as well as the best Stinger community for some advice!

ps. currently, i’ve been feeding the car 87 octane fuel. what can i say, with all the driving i do, i cannot squeeze out $130CAD per fuel up at a station, every 2-3 days.

 

[Maljey]

ps. currently, i’ve been feeding the car 87 octane fuel. what can i say, with all the driving i do, i cannot squeeze out $130CAD per fuel up at a station, every 2-3 days.

Hopefully someone can chime in regarding your other questions but I wanted to touch on the above quote.

Are you within reasonable distance of a Costco? It is totally worth getting a membership there to take advantage of the gas savings, especially if you have to fill up every 2 to 3 days. Your gas savings will easily pay for the membership.

If not Costco then perhaps Sams Club or BJs, assuming they have those up in Canada.

 

[lostangeleman]

Hopefully someone can chime in regarding your other questions but I wanted to touch on the above quote.

Are you within reasonable distance of a Costco? It is totally worth getting a membership there to take advantage of the gas savings, especially if you have to fill up every 2 to 3 days. Your gas savings will easily pay for the membership.

If not Costco then perhaps Sams Club or BJs, assuming they have those up in Canada.

i do get Costco gas every now and then. it’s not mainly that i cannot afford the gas, i just do my best to work with a budget since i do tons of stop and go downtown Toronto City driving… the $20-30 dollar difference in my eye is the only reason i dont fill 91-93 in my tank! ty for the tip tho, i do go costco for that cheaper stuff!

 

[See3Pee01971]

Grabbing the Stage 2 Package from the @K8StingerStore very soon. comes with

-MBRP EXHAUST
-INJEN INTAKES
-ADD W1 CATCH CANS (there’s an option to add 2 of these, what would these accomplish and is one needed or two is a safer bet?
-JB4 BLUETOOTH TUNE
- HKS SPARK PLUGS

anything in specific i should know before getting this package installed please let me know. i am a beginner. cousin is a mechanic so he will be handling the install for all these parts. How difficult is it to tune the car? i’ve watched videos on youtube and it seems pretty self explanatory to setup the tune, but (remember i’m completely new to tuning) there’s also been discussion about three things that confuse me.

1. people talk shit about JB4 since it’s just copy and paste files and upload them to the car. i don’t get it, should i find someone who has a Dyno to tune my car for me after getting the mods installed? or am i able to complete the entire process myself

2. what is up with gapped spark plugs. i am always so confused when reading the forum posts about gapping the spark plugs to a specific setting to make the engine run the best (it’s something to do with the combustion within the cylinder???). will i have to have my new HKS spark plugs gapped… if that’s the right way to put it? am i better off going to a regular mechanic shop and have my cousin do the installs (cousin knows his way around modified cars.) or am i better off finding a local tuning shop that can do the work for me.

3. i know the different maps are for different fuel octane levels. i am planning on filling 91+ octane locally and running on its correlating map which supports it. what happens if a family member or someone else fills the tank with 87? will this fry the engine… what would happen in the scenario that the tune is applied and the wrong octane level is used. is there a setting where the tune can be set to off whilst using 87 fuel? i only ask as a safeguard for family members, or for daily driving and keeping the fuel costs low, and filling it up with 91 every weekend for an enjoyable drive.

sorry for all the newbie questions, but i guess everyone starts somewhere! so might as well as the best Stinger community for some advice!

ps. currently, i’ve been feeding the car 87 octane fuel. what can i say, with all the driving i do, i cannot squeeze out $130CAD per fuel up at a station, every 2-3 days.

1.) JB4 is awesome and most importantly safe. You can incrementally work your way up as you apply supporting mods. And eventually move into a BMS BEF for the ECU, and a TCU tune.

2.) Terry at BMS recommends you gap at .22, and that’s what I do. Car purrs like a kitten. You can do all of this yourself and Terry is very helpful in getting things dialed in without blowing your car up or doing any damage.

3.) fuel is the largest factor when tuning. As you move up the food chain, your fuel will have to move with you. At the top of the food chain you will be running a heavy mix of E85 to keep things happy. I’m running E60 right now. I would personally never run less than 91 in my car, and I would turn JB4 to map 1. But others may have different opinions.

Congrats on the journey. It’s taken me about a year and some $$$$$ to get where I am, but the car is a beast when I want it to be, and a comfy cruiser when I want that. I personally think my car is healthier and runs better than what the factory delivered. Good luck!

 

[lostangeleman]

1.) JB4 is awesome and most importantly safe. You can incrementally work your way up as you apply supporting mods. And eventually move into a BMS BEF for the ECU, and a TCU tune.

2.) Terry at BMS recommends you gap at .22, and that’s what I do. Car purrs like a kitten. You can do all of this yourself and Terry is very helpful in getting things dialed in without blowing your car up or doing any damage.

3.) fuel is the largest factor when tuning. As you move up the food chain, your fuel will have to move with you. At the top of the food chain you will be running a heavy mix of E85 to keep things happy. I’m running E60 right now. I would personally never run less than 91 in my car, and I would turn JB4 to map 1. But others may have different opinions.

Congrats on the journey. It’s taken me about a year and some $$$$$ to get where I am, but the car is a beast when I want it to be, and a comfy cruiser when I want that. I personally think my car is healthier and runs better than what the factory delivered. Good luck!

are you ever worried about needing your factory warranty? what would be the best case and worst case scenario? is there a way to know if a car has been tuned even with the module removed?

 

[See3Pee01971]

are you ever worried about needing your factory warranty? what would be the best case and worst case scenario? is there a way to know if a car has been tuned even with the module removed?

My warranty is up since I bought the car used with 19k on it. But I do all my own work anyways I don’t want the dealer touching my car.

With that said if you are concerned about the warranty then you need to stick with the piggy back (JB4). Once you get an ECU tune there will be signs of it that can not be erased. Doesn’t matter if you flash a spare ECU.

The piggy back is easy (quick) to remove if you need warranty work done to the car.

 

[lostangeleman]

h

Hopefully someone can chime in regarding your other questions but I wanted to touch on the above quote.

Are you within reasonable distance of a Costco? It is totally worth getting a membership there to take advantage of the gas savings, especially if you have to fill up every 2 to 3 days. Your gas savings will easily pay for the membership.

If not Costco then perhaps Sams Club or BJs, assuming they have those up in Canada.

hey man, got tempted and filled the stringer with 91 octane. i got 03 and 94 out here too which is gonna be god for my tune; never filling reg. again in the car

edit: typos

 

[lostangeleman]

1.) JB4 is awesome and most importantly safe. You can incrementally work your way up as you apply supporting mods. And eventually move into a BMS BEF for the ECU, and a TCU tune.

2.) Terry at BMS recommends you gap at .22, and that’s what I do. Car purrs like a kitten. You can do all of this yourself and Terry is very helpful in getting things dialed in without blowing your car up or doing any damage.

3.) fuel is the largest factor when tuning. As you move up the food chain, your fuel will have to move with you. At the top of the food chain you will be running a heavy mix of E85 to keep things happy. I’m running E60 right now. I would personally never run less than 91 in my car, and I would turn JB4 to map 1. But others may have different opinions.

Congrats on the journey. It’s taken me about a year and some $$$$$ to get where I am, but the car is a beast when I want it to be, and a comfy cruiser when I want that. I personally think my car is healthier and runs better than what the factory delivered. Good luck!

BMS BEF for the ECU, and a TCU tune.“
so new to tuning i only know what an ECU is cause most ppl know what it does. TCU? i’ve only heard it once, assumed the way the guy mentioned it, i believe it changes the way the car shifts. i drive mostly in manual mode so i shift myself, but if it really does make a difference i may consider that (down the line of course.) do you have any recommendations for companies who mess with TCU tunes ??? i wanna be able to remove all mods if they car needs warranty related work, so i’m trying to keep everything on the sly. am i better off finding a reputable tuning shop for this?

 

[lostangeleman]

1.) JB4 is awesome and most importantly safe. You can incrementally work your way up as you apply supporting mods. And eventually move into a BMS BEF for the ECU, and a TCU tune.

2.) Terry at BMS recommends you gap at .22, and that’s what I do. Car purrs like a kitten. You can do all of this yourself and Terry is very helpful in getting things dialed in without blowing your car up or doing any damage.

3.) fuel is the largest factor when tuning. As you move up the food chain, your fuel will have to move with you. At the top of the food chain you will be running a heavy mix of E85 to keep things happy. I’m running E60 right now. I would personally never run less than 91 in my car, and I would turn JB4 to map 1. But others may have different opinions.

Congrats on the journey. It’s taken me about a year and some $$$$$ to get where I am, but the car is a beast when I want it to be, and a comfy cruiser when I want that. I personally think my car is healthier and runs better than what the factory delivered. Good luck!

thank you for the explanations. completely new

question still remains, how and what is gapping your plugs??? can a machanic just do it for me? u don’t need a full explanation of the process just enough to feel confident having it done to the car…

 

[Yves998]

1. JB4 is a piggyback and wouldn't load anything to your car. Don't even think of dyno tuning this car. Only a few tuners have full definitions of all the tables for this ECU and none of them offers dyno tune. Now you can imagine the actual quality of dyno tune you can get. Lap3 is awesome and unbeatable tune but I'll let you know why you shouldn't get it later.

2. It doesn't matter that much for facelifted stingers with upgraded coils. It wouldn't hurt to check the gap for HKS plugs before installing them tho.

3. Don't even think of running 91 lol. I see you're in Canada too so lemme drop you some crue fact. Canadian 93/94 can be as crappy as California 91(Chev, PC winter blend, ESSO). For the most of time Shell93 can keep with Florida/Texas 91. So now you can imagine what situation you are in. You'll be considered lucky if your log looks clean with only JB4 map1.

There's absolutely no reason to get a awesome ECU tune by lap3 for your crappy fuel since it will pull tons of timing to dial the power back because of the crappy fuel we got (even for their stage 1). You are not able to make the power you paid for with that crappy pump gas. Water methanol injection is the starting point for you to consider lap3 stage 1 or backend flash via EK1.

As for dumping 87 in your tank, you'd better just stay away from full throttle and ask the shop to suck it out of your tank. Your ECU will try it's best to pull tons of ignition timing to save it for knocking hell but again this 87 we are taking about is Canadian 87 so I have extremely low faith with it. If you are on even just map1 and 87, then the change of engine failure will be even higher comparing with JB4 disabled. Keep in mind, it just take one knock at wrong time and wrong spot to send kill the engine.

 

[klvn]

1. JB4 is a piggyback and wouldn't load anything to your car. Don't even think of dyno tuning this car. Only a few tuners have full definitions of all the tables for this ECU and none of them offers dyno tune. Now you can imagine the actual quality of dyno tune you can get. Lap3 is awesome and unbeatable tune but I'll let you know why you shouldn't get it later.

2. It doesn't matter that much for facelifted stingers with upgraded coils. It wouldn't hurt to check the gap for HKS plugs before installing them tho.

3. Don't even think of running 91 lol. I see you're in Canada too so lemme drop you some crue fact. Canadian 93/94 can be as crappy as California 91(Chev, PC winter blend, ESSO). For the most of time Shell93 can keep with Florida/Texas 91. So now you can imagine what situation you are in. You'll be considered lucky if your log looks clean with only JB4 map1.

There's absolutely no reason to get a awesome ECU tune by lap3 for your crappy fuel since it will pull tons of timing to dial the power back because of the crappy fuel we got (even for their stage 1). You are not able to make the power you paid for with that crappy pump gas. Water methanol injection is the starting point for you to consider lap3 stage 1 or backend flash via EK1.

As for dumping 87 in your tank, you'd better just stay away from full throttle and ask the shop to suck it out of your tank. Your ECU will try it's best to pull tons of ignition timing to save it for knocking hell but again this 87 we are taking about is Canadian 87 so I have extremely low faith with it. If you are on even just map1 and 87, then the change of engine failure will be even higher comparing with JB4 disabled. Keep in mind, it just take one knock at wrong time and wrong spot to send kill the engine.

Sorry for reviving an older topic but was looking at the same JB4 package as the OP. I'm also in Canada, stock 2022 model with aftermarket catback only. Currently running 91 from Petrocan. Should I even consider this JB4 package considering I don't plan on doing methanol injection? I would only be going with 94 Petrocan or 93 Shell (if I can find some in the area). I've read that I'll be lucky if I can get map2 on 93 Shell, just unsure if it's worth the trouble of getting the package with intakes, plugs and oil catch can.

Edit: I am happy I've read your post about not getting the most performance out of ECU tune with Lap3 or Lozic. You've saved me probably a few thousand dollars there!

 

[Thomby]

Should I even consider this JB4 package considering I don't plan on doing methanol injection? I would only be going with 94 Petrocan or 93 Shell (if I can find some in the area). I've read that I'll be lucky if I can get map2 on 93 Shell

I believe Canada uses American-style AKI ratings (as opposed to the higher European-style MON numbers), and if that's the case, Map 1 is designed for 91 octane, Map 2 for 93 octane, and Maps 3-4-5 for E30 mixes.

But they're made to work for a bunch of cars, so it's possible yours will support a higher map on a lower octane (especially on that cold dense Canadian air). Your 94 for example might work fine for Map 3, but you'll want to work your way up checking logs on Maps 1, 2, 3.

 

[klvn]

I believe Canada uses American-style AKI ratings (as opposed to the higher European-style MON numbers), and if that's the case, Map 1 is designed for 91 octane, Map 2 for 93 octane, and Maps 3-4-5 for E30 mixes.

But they're made to work for a bunch of cars, so it's possible yours will support a higher map on a lower octane (especially on that cold dense Canadian air). Your 94 for example might work fine for Map 3, but you'll want to work your way up checking logs on Maps 1, 2, 3.

In this thread our Canadian 93/94 is equivalent to US 91 according to @Yves998 My fear is that I buy the whole set up and I can't even get map 2 or even dream of map 3.

lol I was going to add in here some very useful map info but found that you were the one who posted it

Prior poll was started early in the Stinger/JB4's development, and before the remapping (so Map 4 was valet vs. Map 8 now). So what map & fuel is everyone running in 2023?

Map 0: JB4 disabled
Map 1: 4psi over stock peak tapering to 2.5psi at high RPM. Default performance map suitable for all 91+ octane fuels.
Map 2: 5psi over stock tapering to 4psi at high RPM. Suggested for 93+ octane fuel.
Map 3: 6psi stock tapering to 5psi at high RPM. Suggested for high quality fuel including unleaded race gas, ethanol mixtures up to 30%, or high quality octane booster like Torco or Boostane.
Map 4: Up to 7psi over stock. For use with unleaded race fuel and/or E85 mixtures up to 30%.
Map 5: Up to 7psi over stock but without top end taper. For unleaded race fuel use and bolt on modifications. May not be suitable for E85 mixtures due to high fuel pressure dropping. If using this map on E85 you should be experienced at reading your own logs and evaluating ignition advance and fuel pressure.
Map 6: User adjustable map. Enter value of boost over stock by RPM on user adjustment page.
Map 7: Progressive WMI (water/meth) map. Increases boost as a function of methanol flow & methanol boost additive. Holds boost low until WMI is flowing to avoid tip-in knock, and reduces boost as a function of WMI flow in the event of interruption like running out of fluid, leak, or component failure.
Map 8: Valet map, runs around half as much boost as stock.

 

[Yves998]

I believe Canada uses American-style AKI ratings (as opposed to the higher European-style MON numbers), and if that's the case, Map 1 is designed for 91 octane, Map 2 for 93 octane, and Maps 3-4-5 for E30 mixes.

But they're made to work for a bunch of cars, so it's possible yours will support a higher map on a lower octane (especially on that cold dense Canadian air). Your 94 for example might work fine for Map 3, but you'll want to work your way up checking logs on Maps 1, 2, 3.

West coast Canada has some super weird Emission requirements for arene percentage hence our 93/94 was worse than Texas/Florida 91 for the longest time (still slightly better than ACN91 lol). For example a Ontario/Quebec 91 tuned car to run clean log on their 91 will pull 2-3deg for our Alberta/BC 91. Shell 93 started to offer 93 years ago and finally that thing is acting similar to average American 93.

 

[Yves998]

Sorry for reviving an older topic but was looking at the same JB4 package as the OP. I'm also in Canada, stock 2022 model with aftermarket catback only. Currently running 91 from Petrocan. Should I even consider this JB4 package considering I don't plan on doing methanol injection? I would only be going with 94 Petrocan or 93 Shell (if I can find some in the area). I've read that I'll be lucky if I can get map2 on 93 Shell, just unsure if it's worth the trouble of getting the package with intakes, plugs and oil catch can.

Edit: I am happy I've read your post about not getting the most performance out of ECU tune with Lap3 or Lozic. You've saved me probably a few thousand dollars there!

Shell 93 map2 log should be clean or acceptable for the most of the time. JB4 is 10/10 worthy to get even if you're getting lap3 ecu tune in the future since methanol injection is a must at that point and JB4 can be a very good meth controller+logging device.

 

[Thomby]

In this thread our Canadian 93/94 is equivalent to US 91 according to @Yves998 My fear is that I buy the whole set up and I can't even get map 2 or even dream of map 3.

lol I was going to add in here some very useful map info but found that you were the one who posted it

Shell 93 started to offer 93 years ago and finally that thing is acting similar to average American 93.

I'm not sure how I missed the earlier post on Canadian octane, apologies. The list in my post is straight from BMS's own posts on the JB4tech forums.

But the thing to bear in mind is they want maps to work for the majority of cars, so they're probably conservative even for the average car (and certainly if you have a cooler running or healthier than average one).

My car will run Map 5 on E30 with almost no corrections even in summer heat. Maybe I got lucky, but to me that's a clear sign that learning to read logs and working up the maps is the way to go.

 

[klvn]

Shell 93 map2 log should be clean or acceptable for the most of the time. JB4 is 10/10 worthy to get even if you're getting lap3 ecu tune in the future since methanol injection is a must at that point and JB4 can be a very good meth controller+logging device.

Thanks for confirming that Shell 93 on Map 2 should be okay. I think JB4 might be the way to go for a newbie like me as one of my other fears is overboosting. My understanding is that the system should prevent this/have safety measures in place.

Relating back to my original question of wanting to get the JB4 package. Is it a must to have intakes and oil catch can for Map 2? I suspect regardless of what map, new spark plugs are required.

I normally fill up at Petro Can as it's so close to my house but is there any octane level that would be okay to use? Would Petro Can 91 work for Map 1? While I know Shell 93 would be ideal, how about Petro Can 94 for Map 2? I'm in Alberta if it makes any difference.

What would a "clean" log look like? I downloaded someone's JB4 .csv file and it's a lot of numbers. Anything I need to be looking for specifically?

 

[Thomby]

I normally fill up at Petro Can as it's so close to my house but is there any octane level that would be okay to use? Would Petro Can 91 work for Map 1? While I know Shell 93 would be ideal, how about Petro Can 94 for Map 2? I'm in Alberta if it makes any difference.

Guideline is Map 1 for 91, Map 2 for 93, Map 3/4/5 for E30. But nobody is going to be able to confirm how your particular car responds to a particular batch of gas over the internet, you'll just have to try it.

What would a "clean" log look like? I downloaded someone's JB4 .csv file and it's a lot of numbers. Anything I need to be looking for specifically?

Below is a writeup I did on my approach, which also links to BMS's JB4 documentation where you can learn more detail. My recommendation would be to read through their explanation of parameters as a baseline, then you can see some specific examples from a real log highlighted in my post.

T

Post in thread 'Wondering if anyone could let me know if I am running at a safe level I have no idea. What my air fuel ratio should be. Please help someone.'

Mar 21, 2023

I’ve had my JB4 for a while now just installing it what a difference it makes I’m only a little concerned that I am not really able to read the logs do you know if I am running in a safe range love how fast it is but I really don’t want to hurt my car

I'm still an amateur at this, but here's BMS's guide, and how I'm learning to look at these:

JB4 Logging Parameters - JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion

Hey guys, We’ll use this thread for details and discussions on Kia specific JB4 logging parameters. Fuel trims and wideband o2 sensor control explained here...

www.jb4tech.com

I start by looking at Pedal, Gear, and MPH (light orange) to get my bearings...

• Thomby

• 

 

[klvn]

Guideline is Map 1 for 91, Map 2 for 93, Map 3/4/5 for E30. But nobody is going to be able to confirm how your particular car responds to a particular batch of gas over the internet, you'll just have to try it.


Below is a writeup I did on my approach, which also links to BMS's JB4 documentation where you can learn more detail. My recommendation would be to read through their explanation of parameters as a baseline, then you can see some specific examples from a real log highlighted in my post.

T

Post in thread 'Wondering if anyone could let me know if I am running at a safe level I have no idea. What my air fuel ratio should be. Please help someone.'

Mar 21, 2023

I’ve had my JB4 for a while now just installing it what a difference it makes I’m only a little concerned that I am not really able to read the logs do you know if I am running in a safe range love how fast it is but I really don’t want to hurt my car

I'm still an amateur at this, but here's BMS's guide, and how I'm learning to look at these:

JB4 Logging Parameters - JB4tech.com - International Turbo Tuning Discussion

Hey guys, We’ll use this thread for details and discussions on Kia specific JB4 logging parameters. Fuel trims and wideband o2 sensor control explained here...

www.jb4tech.com

I start by looking at Pedal, Gear, and MPH (light orange) to get my bearings...

• Thomby

• 

Thank you for linking these posts!

 

[Boogioogi]

Northern Canadian here with a FBO stinger !

1. Jb4 was a great place to start ! I had put almost 50000 km on my stinger while having it set to map 2 and I've had 0 issues. Just do logs once in a while to make sure everything is good and enjoy !

2. It's not hard to set the gap and it'll add some extra reliability using the JB4. I've asked Terry in the past and he recommends gapping them.


3. If you're going to be using the JB4 I definitely recommend using 91 at the minimum. 93 from the essos will be your best bet tho. I've been running that for as long as I've had the car and it's been by far the best and most consistent. You should be able to safely run map 2 on the jb4 with it. Costco 91 is also a good second choice ! Crappy tire and shell I'd try to stay away from, I've never had a car that's liked their fuel lol.

Idk where in the Toronto area you are, but I know Xclussive tuning specializes in KDM. I personally don't trust him but a few people I know like him. Take that for what it's worth. You can also always go Ek1 + BMS TCU and ECU tune later on since you'll already have the jb4 tho.