Concerns - Popping/Creaking Noise from Sunroof

[Marc Collins]

i had a look myself at this. removed the glass too. I founf the most rattling is coming from the parts that slide into each other. Isolate this and it will be mostly gone.

How would one do this? ...Considering the many dozens of messages above already talking about various details...

 

[Fecker]

How would one do this? ...Considering the many dozens of messages above already talking about various details...

I wrapped the sliders "ends" with cotton tape so when it slides in the it's between the 2 metals

 

[Marc Collins]

I wrapped the sliders "ends" with cotton tape so when it slides in the it's between the 2 metals

A pic or two would be very helpful. Sounds promising.

 

[my19rattler]

SOLVED?? FINALLY?!?!?!?!?

Well, I cannot be fully sure until I leave the car out in the baking sun on a hot day, but I am 99% sure I have finally solved the popping/creaking sunroof plague that has ben driving me crazy since about 6 months after acquiring the car. And like the hatch rattle, as I predicted, the solution costs about $1 in parts and not much labour, though this is too much for all the great minds at KIA dealerships and KIA HQ to figure-out after what is now more than three years of widespread complaints from owners of Stingers and every other model of Genesis, KIA and Hyundai that uses the panoramic sunroof.

If you read back to my many whinging comments in this thread and others, you will see that I said from day one the problem was metal on metal contact exacerbated by expansion-contraction cycles, which is why the problem is always worse after the car has been in the sun and then the A/C in the car cools the interior causing that temp to drop while it is still hot outside.

The solution is ridiculously simple, though I tried many other things before finally getting frustrated enough to do this. I took some kitchen cabinet shelf liner material that is rubber and spongy (here is a link to a well-known brand from Amazon, but all hardware stores sell it and the stuff even from the dollar store is usually fine) and cut two very thin strips (about half a centimetre/1/4 of an inch) the full width of the roll (every one I have seen is 12" wide). I am showing a picture of a light colour to better illustrate the texture of it, but used black for my own car as the rails and other sunroof mechanics are already black.

These strips are going to be sandwiched between the rails attached to the sunroof and the rails attached to the car body. There are basically irregularly shaped bracket/rails made of steel that connect and hold the sunroof in place. I used a very tiny amount of super glue to hold the rubber lining strip in place while I was working on the reinstallation. The weight of the roof will hold it in place, but not while you are manually shifting and shimmying the roof into place.

I had adjusted the sunroof innumerable times (trying to get of the creaking) by loosening the three (on each side) interior bolts and playing with the adjustments (to no avail). What I did not realize is that there is a fourth bolt on the outside of the car that is the last remaining connection of the roof to its brackets. Once you remove all eight bolts, the roof simply lifts off the car!

However, there is no need to remove the roof completely. If you remove the bolts on one side of the car, you can lift that side of the roof sufficiently to insert the rubber liner material onto the top of the rail and then let the roof rest on top of that. Replace and tighten all the bolts, starting with the exterior one and then the three interior ones. Repeat for the second side of the roof after the first side is bolted back on.

Important notes:

• It may help to loosen but not remove the bolts on the opposite side while manoeuvring the liner material into place
• The sunroof needs to be opened just enough so that it is level, but not so far as the rear-most interior attachment bolt becomes inaccessible from the inside of the car
• Only one tool is needed--a T25 (TORX) driver
• The rear/exterior bolt will undoubtedly have a mark from where it was attached at the factory--tighten it back in that same exact spot to ensure the roof is aligned when done
  • I tightened the interior bolts in the position with the roof just resting on the liner material and made no further alignment (up or down) adjustment
• If you cannot find these eight bolts (they are very obviously visible), then I suggest not attempting this mod

I'll post again if this fails to work, but so far it has been blissfully free of popping and creaking and just generally quieter because of the rubber bushing.

Does anyone have a diagram/pictures of this method?

I'm heading into the dealer at the end of this week to try and get a sunroof clatter/rattle fix, and mine is exactly the same as @Marc Collins describes in this thread. However, my dealer hasn't been very good at reading my notes about the issues, and possible fixes.

I'm hoping a simple diagram of 'Do this, see if it works' will help them out. It's still under warranty and I'm not confident enough taking the sunroof off myself. I don't want them to just regrease the rails and call it job done.

 

[Marc Collins]

Does anyone have a diagram/pictures of this method?

I'm heading into the dealer at the end of this week to try and get a sunroof clatter/rattle fix, and mine is exactly the same as @Marc Collins describes in this thread. However, my dealer hasn't been very good at reading my notes about the issues, and possible fixes.

I'm hoping a simple diagram of 'Do this, see if it works' will help them out. It's still under warranty and I'm not confident enough taking the sunroof off myself. I don't want them to just regrease the rails and call it job done.

Any dealer should not have a problem figuring out what this involves, conceptually. Despite that, they will likely refuse to do it.

I am also interested in @Fecker's solution above because even though the majority of my ticking and popping is gone, there is still something occurring that is "cured" by closing the roof liner cover under the glass. That sounds like what @Fecker has resolved to me, but I am not clear what exactly he is referring to (as opposed to the very obvious "sandwich" filler concept I have used). None of these are 100%, but the whole design of the panoramic sunroofs is defective from a noise/rattles perspective. Hyundai/KIA know that and therefore need us to just live with it to avoid acknowledging any form of liability.

Metal is touching metal. Metal contracts and expands--not always at the same rate. Padding of some sort needs to be inserted between said metal pieces that cause the ticking/rattling. Dealers know this, but it is labour-intensive, not covered by warranty and may not work 100%. So, you will be on your own like the rest of us...

 

[my19rattler]

Any dealer should not have a problem figuring out what this involves, conceptually. Despite that, they will likely refuse to do it. I am also interested in @Fecker's solution above because even though the majority of my ticking and popping is gone, there is still something occurring that is "cured" by closing the roof liner cover under the glass. That sounds like what @Fecker has resolved to me, but I am not clear what exactly he is referring to (as opposed to the very obvious "sandwich" filler concept I have used). None of these are 100%, but the whole design of the panoramic sunroofs is defective from a noise/rattles perspective. Hyundai/KIA know that and therefore need us to just live with it to avoid acknowledging any form of liability. Metal is touching metal. Metal contracts and expands--not always at the same rate. Padding of some sort needs to be inserted between said metal pieces that cause the ticking/rattling. Dealers know this, but it is labour-intensive, not covered by warranty and may not work 100%. So, you will be on your own like the rest of us...

Thank you @Marc Collins - that's the answer I was expecting, but it's still a bummer. I'll report back with what the dealer does (or more likely, doesn't do).

When I move on to doing my own Marc Collins Rubber Sandwich fix, I might post some photos here to confirm with this thread's Brains Trust (and particularly you, Marc). I am 70% confident I understand the content of your fix post, but would like to confirm before I potentially make any silly mistakes.

 

[Marc Collins]

Thank you @Marc Collins - that's the answer I was expecting, but it's still a bummer. I'll report back with what the dealer does (or more likely, doesn't do).

When I move on to doing my own Marc Collins Rubber Sandwich fix, I might post some photos here to confirm with this thread's Brains Trust (and particularly you, Marc). I am 70% confident I understand the content of your fix post, but would like to confirm before I potentially make any silly mistakes.

Just be aware the sunroof is not difficult to remove and replace. It literally just unbolts and can be lifted off. You can also just loosen the bolts on both sides and then "lift" one side at a time to make the sandwich That way, the roof doesn't have to come off. It's just a bit more awkward to glue or secure your sandwich material that way, but if it makes you less stressed

What I really wanted to do was put some material between the rails and the body of the car, but that requires removing the rails--more difficult/scary. But if there is a way to quiet the rails as per @Fecker above, then that would not be required. Do you understand what he has described? If so, please describe or take a pic as maybe it's just my dumb brain that can't figure it out.

 

[my19rattler]

No I don't sorry, but I'll ask my tech (who's a really nice guy) on Friday about 'what if a hypothetical friend wanted to remove the rails?'

From what @Fecker said, isolating the 'parts that slide into each other' would be the ends of the rails? I'm confused and would need a picture or to take it apart myself to understand.

@Marc Collins, I think I have a hypothesis for why the 'Kia Fix' of rubber seal replacement and regreasing works for some owners for 100-200ks and then wears off.

I noticed that, when it rains, my rattle is decreased by 80-ish%. When dry, it returns. I think your theory about weather and temperatures is bang on. My hypothesis is the and water rain is filling in the gaps of the seal which silences the otherwise very obvious rail-clatter noise. When dried out, there's no sonic dampening, so it's back.

Something I did this morning that I haven't seen mentioned here was just push firmly upwards on the glass panel with my hand while driving. The rattle disappears once I've pushed the glass up maaaybe 10mm. This, to my mind, adds more evidence to the rail-to-rail contact source, and is another point for your solution of putting some rubber material between the rails.

I think the rubber lifts the glass up just enough that
1) it creates a better accoustic seal with the rubber lining and,
2) it separates the glass-rails from the guide rails, mostly removing the clatter noise.

Will be interesting to try this myself when Kia inevitably says 'we've greased them up, you're good to go!' I'll post pictures as I go for other non-mechanical people like myself so they can hopefully follow along and learn from any errors I make.

Thank you to this community and everyone who has iterated on finding and testing fixes for this problem. I'm hopeful that at some point I'll be able to film a universal fix video, based on all the information collated from this thread. It won't make Kia ackowledge the problem, but it will help people of all skill levels who love this car eliminate the one major annoyance.

 

[my19rattler]

Hey @Marc Collins - just checking that this gap (with the sun coming through it) is the gap where you placed your rubber baffler strip?

Cheers

 

[my19rattler]

Update: got back from the dealership and they stated (I think somewhat correctly) that the main issue was the rubber seal and liners used for the sunroof. Given that a lot of my noise was creaking, and the creaking happened mostly on dry/sunny days, that theory holds some water.

They regreased and oiled the seals, and ordered a new set from Korea (2-3 months, apparently they changed the material in MY21 for Australiasia). The noise was significantly lessened.

However, it's been dry and sunny for the past three days and the metal rattle is now as clear as day without the squeaking/creaking of the seals. I finally got sick of it and applied the fix from @Marc Collins 's post on page 45.

What a difference. I think I can do a better job, as I only applied rubber non stick matting to two thirds of the rail, instead of the whole thing. However, when the sunroof cover is open, the noise is reduced by 80%. With the sunroof cover closed (99% of my driving), the noise is almost silent.

I used this Moroday 450 x 450 x 3mm Black Self Adhesive Holed Mat from Bunnings (Australia), cut in .5cm, long strips. As I said, I didn't do the whole rail, but I will when I fix it up. Because it was self adhesive, I didn't have to use superglue like @Marc Collins.

Because I was doing this solo, I found it far easier to undo the 6 x T25 screws on the internal rails, and the 2 x T25 screws on the external rails, so the whole glass panel could tilt from side to side as I laid out the rubber matting and got it correctly seated. I used my head to keep the glass lifted and laid the rubber down, but would definitely recommend getting a helper. I was doing it in a Bunnings carpark, so no such luck.

The entire process took 15 minutes, and the only materials I needed were the rubber matting, a T25 screwdriver, and some scissors to cut the matting to size. Very happy with the result, and my roof rattle is almost completely deadened. If the new rubber sealant from Kia lessens it even more, so much the better, but I'm very sensitive/annoyed by cabin rattles and this is enough for me.

When I re-do it, I'll take a video to step people through the process if they're less confident, because I was hesitant to give it a go until I got so annoyed I didn't care if the glass fell off. Wish I had have done this in week one.

Thanks Marc and all who contributed to this thread!

 

[socalvn]

Just be aware the sunroof is not difficult to remove and replace. It literally just unbolts and can be lifted off. You can also just loosen the bolts on both sides and then "lift" one side at a time to make the sandwich That way, the roof doesn't have to come off. It's just a bit more awkward to glue or secure your sandwich material that way, but if it makes you less stressed

What I really wanted to do was put some material between the rails and the body of the car, but that requires removing the rails--more difficult/scary. But if there is a way to quiet the rails as per @Fecker above, then that would not be required. Do you understand what he has described? If so, please describe or take a pic as maybe it's just my dumb brain that can't figure it out.

This is my biggest problem with my stinger getting worse all the time reading thur this entire post I'm still uncertain if the headliner was removed to do this or if it was all from above the car. Thank you

 

[Snowwhite]

This is my biggest problem with my stinger getting worse all the time reading thur this entire post I'm still uncertain if the headliner was removed to do this or if it was all from above the car. Thank you

the *panel* comes off from the outside. I don't see how they could pull the entire mechanism under the panel without taking out the headliner.

I've had decent luck with lining the metal guides with felt, when it feels like sticking, as described earlier in the thread. lubing the seals helps for about a week. but there's always some little creak or crack noise going on. I don't want a dealer going anywhere near it, I think they will make it worse.

 

[Marc Collins]

Hey @Marc Collins - just checking that this gap (with the sun coming through it) is the gap where you placed your rubber baffler strip?

Cheers

Yes, I believe so. But if you remove (or lift one side at a time) the roof off, it is 100% obvious where to put the sandwich/cushioning materials.

 

[Marc Collins]

What a difference. I think I can do a better job, as I only applied rubber non stick matting to two thirds of the rail, instead of the whole thing. However, when the sunroof cover is open, the noise is reduced by 80%. With the sunroof cover closed (99% of my driving), the noise is almost silent.

Thanks Marc and all who contributed to this thread!

This is the identical result to when I did it on my car. Not perfect, but the best so far of any "solution" I have read about. And, yes, the cover open versus closed makes a noticeable difference, unfortunately if you like the additional light in the car.

 

[my19rattler]

I've recorded a video on the fix:

 

[socalvn]

I've recorded a video on the fix:

Thanks for posting. That's really cool. Afraid mines creaking and cracking from the frame itself though

 

[JUMBOxSIZE]

I've recorded a video on the fix:

I need to try this. Thanks!

 

[Marc Collins]

I've recorded a video on the fix:

Wow, this is so helpful and I am now famous on YouTube!

Two quick comments. First, I am Canadian, not English Second, and more serious, to get at that back bolt a little more easily, simply don't open the roof as far as you did. As long as it's open a few centimetres, that's enough to do the rest of the procedure.

Question--what adhesive did you use? The rubber cupboard liner looks exactly the same as what I used ...Or...is it? Maybe it has an adhesive backing? If so, I have not seen that, but a much smarter option than gluing.

 

[my19rattler]

Wow, this is so helpful and I am now famous on YouTube!

Two quick comments. First, I am Canadian, not English Second, and more serious, to get at that back bolt a little more easily, simply don't open the roof as far as you did. As long as it's open a few centimetres, that's enough to do the rest of the procedure.

Question--what adhesive did you use? The rubber cupboard liner looks exactly the same as what I used ...Or...is it? Maybe it has an adhesive backing? If so, I have not seen that, but a much smarter option than gluing.

Aaaaah I'm sorry for mis-culturing you!

Yeah the rubber matting I used is adhesive-backed, so it's really easy to lay down and stick in place. I can't post external links, but if you google 'Moroday 450 x 450 x 3mm Black Self Adhesive Holed Mat', you'll see the product I used

I'm sure you could find an equivalent on Amazon (or at... Tim Hortons Hardware section?) if you're ever looking to re-do yours

 

[Marc Collins]

Aaaaah I'm sorry for mis-culturing you!

Yeah the rubber matting I used is adhesive-backed, so it's really easy to lay down and stick in place. I can't post external links, but if you google 'Moroday 450 x 450 x 3mm Black Self Adhesive Holed Mat', you'll see the product I used

I'm sure you could find an equivalent on Amazon (or at... Tim Hortons Hardware section?) if you're ever looking to re-do yours

Ha ha...just a note for those who haven't done it yet, but want to, the adhesive-backed product definitely will be much easier to install.