Concerns - Popping/Creaking Noise from Sunroof

[Marc Collins]

@Marc Collins

I just returned from my local dealership for the rattle coming from my sunroof (this was my 3rd visit for this issue) on my 2019 Stinger GT2 AWD. I had printed off your original post on what you did to fix the issue and showed it to the Service Specialist and he wanted me to ask you if you ever posted pictures. Specifically...where did you put the cabinet shelf material in relation to the rails? On top, the sides, below...?

Do you have any pictures I could see?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

The cushioning material sits like a sandwich between the rails. If you lift the side of the roof, or remove the roof, it is painfully obvious how and where the rails sit atop each other. They are not flat, but undulate so things "lock" together better when the roof is closed. Any technician who has worked on the roof for more than 2 minutes should know exactly where the metal from the roof support struts rests on the metal from the rail support struts. In fact, they should know even more places to apply cushioning than me as I just did where I could access lifting each side of the roof in succession. If you removed the roof completely, as the dealer easily can, there is likely other/better spots to apply it.

Also, I used the rubbery material, but felt or whatever they use for official purposes (likely some form of tape) should work even better than my handyman job.

We should be somewhat concerned if they have no knowledge (or even imagination) of how the roof supports rest on the rail supports.

 

[Fecker]

Pics would be really good

btw where is the 4th screw located ?

 

[briguy]

Thanks Marc, my experience is near identical with yours with regards to the ticking noise occurring most often during the heat or when it is setting in the sun due to thermal expansion causing the contact to happen somewhere. Mine happens over small bumps while driving and is independent of the sunroof position. You can clearly hear the noise over bumps, coming from the headliner area even when the sunroof is open. Also, the condition is worsening. It was very faint behind the drivers side ear for a while and now it occurs in various places in the headliner area surrounding the sunroof.

The sound is from the adhesive in the headliner. I have had the same issue. When it gets hotter out/the car is sitting in the sun for a while, the adhesive gets looser, and what you are hearing is the adhesive getting pulled and contracted with the flexing of the frame while driving. I took my car back multiple times to the dealership for them to try and resolve. They tried putting foam tape in certain areas inside, which helped. Ultimately, it did help a lot, but I still had one area right where the driver's side grab handle is that was still popping/ticking (If I pushed on that area and kept pressure on it while driving the noise would stop). Somehow it recently went away, and I hope it doesn't come back (although who knows).

 

[HDTurbo]

So many dynamic variables the more different materials used. Bound to happen absent a priori testing that is not able to be realistically done in all potential situations.

 

[G-831821]

Remove the wind guard. You will see two bolts in the front of the tracking for the sunroof. Remove them and gently pry up the tracking. Slip a metal washer under the track and replace bolts. This changes the sitting of the track and kills a lot of the noise. I did the glass raise first, it helps 80%, then the washers. She’s pretty quiet. Been about 6 months.

Hi, what prompted you to do this washer fix? Did you have a rattle or did you have creaking from body flexion?

 

[Fecker]

The cushioning material sits like a sandwich between the rails. If you lift the side of the roof, or remove the roof, it is painfully obvious how and where the rails sit atop each other. They are not flat, but undulate so things "lock" together better when the roof is closed. Any technician who has worked on the roof for more than 2 minutes should know exactly where the metal from the roof support struts rests on the metal from the rail support struts. In fact, they should know even more places to apply cushioning than me as I just did where I could access lifting each side of the roof in succession. If you removed the roof completely, as the dealer easily can, there is likely other/better spots to apply it.

Also, I used the rubbery material, but felt or whatever they use for official purposes (likely some form of tape) should work even better than my handyman job.

We should be somewhat concerned if they have no knowledge (or even imagination) of how the roof supports rest on the rail supports.

Hi mate, could you please tell us where the 4th screw is ? Pics would be great Thanks

 

[95oRANGEcRUSH]

@Marc Collins

I did your fix on my '22 and it made a massive difference, thanks for sharing! I chose to use felt cloth tape (link below) as that is what I had on hand. My roof no longer has those expansion/contraction creaks and moans when closed from temperature cycling. Shortly after I did your recommended fix, I had to go out of town and my car was parked outside for 5 days. I had a 35-50 degree temp. spread from low to high with the car in the sun a lot - still dead quiet!

The nice thing about the cloth tape is having the adhesive on one side which makes application easier. I may revisit this and look into adding a thin piece between where the 2 brackets meet and each of the 4 bolts go through. I noticed this area is very tight; I'm sure this can be another potential NVH area.

Now my only concern is that my roof makes some rattling the first 5-10 minutes of my drive when it is vented and less so when fully open. After that time, it's pretty much silent unless I hit a significant bump or expansion crack in the roadway.

https://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Adhesive-Electrical-Protection-Insulation/dp/B09C6DX6KK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PRFEPFQZPGM6&keywords=B09C6DX6KK&qid=1664772858&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=b09c6dx6kk%2Caps%2C71&sr=8-1&th=1

 

[95oRANGEcRUSH]

Hi mate, could you please tell us where the 4th screw is ? Pics would be great Thanks

Rear most bolt accessible from outside vehicle:



Rear most inside bolt with middle bolt:



Middle bolt then right most inside bolt:

 

[Marc Collins]

@Marc Collins

I did your fix on my '22 and it made a massive difference, thanks for sharing! I chose to use felt cloth tape (link below) as that is what I had on hand. My roof no longer has those expansion/contraction creaks and moans when closed from temperature cycling. Shortly after I did your recommended fix, I had to go out of town and my car was parked outside for 5 days. I had a 35-50 degree temp. spread from low to high with the car in the sun a lot - still dead quiet!

The nice thing about the cloth tape is having the adhesive on one side which makes application easier. I may revisit this and look into adding a thin piece between where the 2 brackets meet and each of the 4 bolts go through. I noticed this area is very tight; I'm sure this can be another potential NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) area.

Now my only concern is that my roof makes some rattling the first 5-10 minutes of my drive when it is vented and less so when fully open. After that time, it's pretty much silent unless I hit a significant bump or expansion crack in the roadway.

https://www.amazon.com/Automotive-Adhesive-Electrical-Protection-Insulation/dp/B09C6DX6KK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PRFEPFQZPGM6&keywords=B09C6DX6KK&qid=1664772858&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=b09c6dx6kk%2Caps%2C71&sr=8-1&th=1

Excellent and thanks for the link. I am sure that product is easier to install than what I used.

 

[Marc Collins]

Rear most bolt accessible from outside vehicle:

View attachment 75292

Rear most inside bolt with middle bolt:

View attachment 75293

Middle bolt then right most inside bolt:

View attachment 75294

Thanks for posting these pics--I see others were asking me to do so. But honestly, the bolts are all glaringly obvious. If you can't find them without the pics, may be better to let a professional do this fix that I am glad others are also having success with.

Another update from me--the loosening and re-tightening of the frame attachment bolts fix is also wonderful and I can report it is working well. There are two typical sources for the creaks and pops and in my case BOTH fixes were required to return my car to what I consider a normal-sounding vehicle. It still has more interior NVH than I would prefer, but the ridiculous creaking and groaning like it was a 1980's hard plastic filled econobox has been silenced with the two fixes.

 

[Fecker]

Thanks for posting these pics--I see others were asking me to do so. But honestly, the bolts are all glaringly obvious. If you can't find them without the pics, may be better to let a professional do this fix that I am glad others are also having success with.

Another update from me--the loosening and re-tightening of the frame attachment bolts fix is also wonderful and I can report it is working well. There are two typical sources for the creaks and pops and in my case BOTH fixes were required to return my car to what I consider a normal-sounding vehicle. It still has more interior NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) than I would prefer, but the ridiculous creaking and groaning like it was a 1980's hard plastic filled econobox has been silenced with the two fixes.

The only question about removing the roof I have is, once removed, do you just simply put it back, screw it and it's all alligned ?

 

[95oRANGEcRUSH]

Thanks for posting these pics--I see others were asking me to do so. But honestly, the bolts are all glaringly obvious. If you can't find them without the pics, may be better to let a professional do this fix that I am glad others are also having success with.

Another update from me--the loosening and re-tightening of the frame attachment bolts fix is also wonderful and I can report it is working well. There are two typical sources for the creaks and pops and in my case BOTH fixes were required to return my car to what I consider a normal-sounding vehicle. It still has more interior NVH (Noise, Vibration, and Harshness) than I would prefer, but the ridiculous creaking and groaning like it was a 1980's hard plastic filled econobox has been silenced with the two fixes.

Yeah, I debated on adding the pictures for that very reason. Ultimately, I was bored at work and had the time to do it so figured I'd assist.

I also did the loosening and re-tightening of the frame bolts, too. That fix also can't be ignored and probably should be mandatory with your fix.

 

[95oRANGEcRUSH]

The only question about removing the roof I have is, once removed, do you just simply put it back, screw it and it's all alligned ?

Take a look at my pictures above. If you look at the first one, you can see just above the washer part of the bolt marks that look like " - - - - " in an arch shape. The washer part of the bolt should technically cover these marks as I believe these are alignment marks from when it was installed at the factory. My sunroof looks aligned, is watertight and doesn't make any wind noise so I feel good about its alignment overall. Could I loosen and re-tighten things, tweak it even more? Sure. But I feel good as-is and I'm not going to keep fudging with it.

 

[Fecker]

Take a look at my pictures above. If you look at the first one, you can see just above the washer part of the bolt marks that look like " - - - - " in an arch shape. The washer part of the bolt should technically cover these marks as I believe these are alignment marks from when it was installed at the factory. My sunroof looks aligned, is watertight and doesn't make any wind noise so I feel good about its alignment overall. Could I loosen and re-tighten things, tweak it even more? Sure. But I feel good as-is and I'm not going to keep fudging with it.

Yeah I see that, just want to be sure to know what to do 100%


Anyway, in regards tothe tape, do I understand it correctly, you put the tape on top of the rails, not in between side to side right ? any pics of your tape you applied ?
I'm thinking of getting this tape, its 9mm, the rail seems to be 7mm so no need to cut it I guess right ?

(Can't post links unfortunately) it's

TESA Fabric Tape PET Fleece 51608 Insulation Tape for Cable Harness Cotton Tape (9 mm x 15 m) Black​

on amazon.co.uk

 

[Marc Collins]

The only question about removing the roof I have is, once removed, do you just simply put it back, screw it and it's all alligned ?

To follow-up on the other replies, yes, do both the fixes at the same time. I never removed my roof to do the tape/felt insertion. Just loosened the whole thing and then lifted one side at a time (with the bolts still in place, but loosened, on the opposite side. I didn't want to take any chances of dropping the roof or scratching the car, so did it that way. It's a bit more cramped to install the liner (which is why the one with the one-sided tape is a great idea), but zero risk of anything big going wrong in the process

 

[95oRANGEcRUSH]

Yeah I see that, just want to be sure to know what to do 100%


Anyway, in regards tothe tape, do I understand it correctly, you put the tape on top of the rails, not in between side to side right ? any pics of your tape you applied ?
I'm thinking of getting this tape, its 9mm, the rail seems to be 7mm so no need to cut it I guess right ?

(Can't post links unfortunately) it's

TESA Fabric Tape PET Fleece 51608 Insulation Tape for Cable Harness Cotton Tape (9 mm x 15 m) Black​

on amazon.co.uk

Correct, the tape is applied to the top of the lower rail so it will sit between the two when the rails rest on each other. I don't have any pictures of the tape installed, but, once you start to do this "fix" it will be super obvious to you.

The tape you've chosen is fine and may be even easier to work with than the one I used. The tape I used is 1 inch wide so I had to cut it in half for the 4 small areas where the rails meet and the bolt goes through the flanges. If I folded my tape over in these areas it would be hard to get the bolt back through (you'll see the tight clearance issues where the flanges meet when you tackle this).

 

[Boogetsbizzy]

I’m going to try this fix that Marc is suggesting on Saturday. Wish me luck!

 

[Boogetsbizzy]

To follow-up on the other replies, yes, do both the fixes at the same time. I never removed my roof to do the tape/felt insertion. Just loosened the whole thing and then lifted one side at a time (with the bolts still in place, but loosened, on the opposite side. I didn't want to take any chances of dropping the roof or scratching the car, so did it that way. It's a bit more cramped to install the liner (which is why the one with the one-sided tape is a great idea), but zero risk of anything big going wrong in the process

Would you suggest the unloosening the frame bolts first or after the padding on the rails? Or doesn’t it matter?

 

[Boogetsbizzy]

Didn’t work. Actually made it worse. Now I have legit rattle sound when driving if the roof is closed. Now what? Haha

 

[Fecker]

What actually have you done?