Very loud suspension noise, Front Right- Tried everything that I can think of...

[I'm Tony Danza]

Hey guys,

I'll try to make this as short as possible. The history:

- 2019 GT1 AWD
- Lowered the car on ARK springs about 4 weeks ago, by the book and with factory toque specs all around. Didn't notice any issues, but I didn't drive it much.
- Immediate alignment by a local suspension pro. Still no issues, but again barely drove it.
- Received new Vossen wheels and tires soon after. Went from 18" to 19". Sizes are correct and nothing rubs.
- Started to hear a front end noise, as if it was a bad new tire. Had one replaced under warranty. Didn't fix it.
- I have taken all suspension parts back off, inspected and re-installed, again using factory specs. ARK Springs have both come off and re-installed.
- Everything was tightened down and torqued while the suspension was raised up to normal driving position.
- Top hat alignments are correct, as well as the springs in the perches. Upper blue colored bolt is in the right mounting hole.
- Strut center nuts are both tightened/torqued all the way down and there is no wiggle room between the strut post and top hat.
- Put factory wheels and tires back on. Same noise.
- Cut the bump stop a bit, getting desperate at this point.
- No vibrations or shaking, just the noise

The Noise:

- If I am not driving on glass, it is a roaring, echoing hollow sound that is pretty much constant. Coarse roads are much worse.
- On very slow bumps (gravel or bumpy ice), it is incredibly loud.
- Definitely coming from the right front.
- No grinding or sounds beyond this.
- Recorded video. This is driving only 2mph over some rough ice, passenger side. It does not make this sound if I drive over the same ice on the driver's side of the car:

The car has 15,000 miles on it and I'm guessing I can't take it to the dealer unless I reversed everything back to stock.

Anyone recognize this sound? I am at a complete loss in over 30 years of turning wrenches, as it should be super obvious. Maybe a blown strut, but at these low miles?

I will buy so much beer or whatever for the person that figures this out!

 

[app_master]

I read on here elsewhere ... check the hood bonnet lifts i.e. gas struts and their mountings point and bolts are all ok.

 

[D.J.]

I ready on here elsewhere ... check the bonnet lifts i.e. gas struts and their mountings point and bolts are all ok.

It does kinda sound like a loose hood.

Doesn't really sound suspension related, just sounds like something is loose.

I'd closely inspect those 2 rubber hood isolators - perhaps unscrew one a half turn or so

 

[nhcowboy28]

What are all the mods you’ve done?

 

[I'm Tony Danza]

I read on here elsewhere ... check the hood bonnet lifts i.e. gas struts and their mountings point and bolts are all ok.

It does kinda sound like a loose hood.

Doesn't really sound suspension related, just sounds like something is loose.

I'd closely inspect those 2 rubber hood isolators - perhaps unscrew one a half turn or so

Gave them an adjustment this morning. Unfortunately, neither of those were the culprit. Solid idea though.

What are all the mods you’ve done?

Just ARK lowering springs. Removed and re-installed everything related to those...multiple times

 

[I'm Tony Danza]

A couple other observations:

- It is not speed dependent and the noise is as loud as it is at 2mph as it is at 70mph
- It doesn't change in pitch.
- Turning and braking have no effects. The noise remains in any case.
- When I pull out of my garage, there is a 1.5" drop. Slowly going down that, I can hear a mild thud that sounds like the video.
- I have wiggled the daylights out of everything, but nothing obvious is standing out


- When I had the strut back off, I noticed I could hear the oil sloshing around on the inside and when it compresses, I could hear some bubbling sounds inside. Not sure if that is normal with these OEM struts? (My brain could be looking for anything at this point)

To me it seems like something is being echoed through the suspension and body, almost like a tuning fork if that makes sense. I can drive over a normal street at 5mph without major bumps and it makes this constant sound.

 

[D.J.]

Running low on ideas...


Might help to try to record short videos with the camera (or your phone) mounted in various locations. - sefely of course

Like under the hood in the engine bay.
On the front left and right fenders..
Werever you think it's comming from.

Since it occurs at slow speeds, you could easily mount a camera/mic/phone to a fender and drive for a few seconds. Might get a different audio perspective than your ears inside the passenger cabin.

That might help to reveal something!

Running low on ideas

 

[GT Elite]

A couple of suggestions, but I doubt they are the problem.
- broken right anti-roll bar mount to the body.
- loose anti-roll bar end link (I.e. play in the end link bearing/bushing).

A question. When changing the springs did you turn the shaft coming out of the shock? If yes, I suspect that something has come apart or loosened inside the shock.

 

[I'm Tony Danza]

Running low on ideas...


Might help to try to record short videos with the camera (or your phone) mounted in various locations. - sefely of course

Like under the hood in the engine bay.
On the front left and right fenders..
Werever you think it's comming from.

Since it occurs at slow speeds, you could easily mount a camera/mic/phone to a fender and drive for a few seconds. Might get a different audio perspective than your ears inside the passenger cabin.

That might help to reveal something!

Running low on ideas

Agreed. I am going to borrow my neighbors go-pro and mount it in multiple places. Beats hanging my head out of the window/sunroof

A couple of suggestions, but I doubt they are the problem.
- broken right anti-roll bar mount to the body.
- loose anti-roll bar end link (I.e. play in the end link bearing/bushing).

A question. When changing the springs did you turn the shaft coming out of the shock? If yes, I suspect that something has come apart or loosened inside the shock.

I was thinking the same as far as the end links and that's what I attacked first. How I install them...find the neutral spot where they easily slip into the mounting holes. Tighten down. Raise the suspension to where the wheels would rest while driving and then I torque them to 80 lb-ft.

Yes, the strut shaft was turned while trying to torque the top nut down correctly. I am also suspecting the strut and it would make sense that it would be echoing this hollow sound throughout the front end, picking up the smallest of road noise and magnifying it.

 

[D.J.]

I was thinking the same as far as the end links and that's what I attacked first. How I install them...find the neutral spot where they easily slip into the mounting holes. Tighten down. Raise the suspension to where the wheels would rest while driving and then I torque them to 80 lb-ft.

80 lbft seemed high to me at first glance - but sure enough - it is correct.





Unfortunately for you - I am thinking it must be something internal in one of the shock absorbers - since it doesn't seem to be anything external.

Do you have the electronic controlled suspension?

 

[I'm Tony Danza]

80 lbft seemed high to me at first glance - but sure enough - it is correct.

View attachment 66835



Unfortunately for you - I am thinking it must be something internal in one of the shock absorbers - since it doesn't seem to be anything external.

Do you have the electronic controlled suspension?

I do have the ECS. Funny, as I am normally incredibly careful, making sure I do everything right. I will explore a bit more with the go-pro to help narrow it down more.

Now I wonder to put everything back to stock and bring it in for warranty service and then afterwards, re-install the lowering springs yet again.... or just swallow the $600 for a new shock and install myself. I can't imagine the dealer being cool with lowering springs on suspension warranty work. And I do wonder if it is back to stock, if they will call me out on nuts being noticeable removed/installed and charge me anyhow.

 

[stoopid]

Running low on ideas...


Might help to try to record short videos with the camera (or your phone) mounted in various locations. - sefely of course

Like under the hood in the engine bay.
On the front left and right fenders..
Werever you think it's comming from.

Since it occurs at slow speeds, you could easily mount a camera/mic/phone to a fender and drive for a few seconds. Might get a different audio perspective than your ears inside the passenger cabin.

That might help to reveal something!

Running low on ideas

Very good suggestion, Scotty on youtube has a device that allows him to do exactly this (basically a remove mic he mounts under the vehicle to pickup these types of sounds). I hadn't needed this before, seems like a clever and valuable solution in situations like this.

 

[stoopid]

Now I wonder to put everything back to stock and bring it in for warranty service and then afterwards, re-install the lowering springs yet again.... or just swallow the $600 for a new shock and install myself. I can't imagine the dealer being cool with lowering springs on suspension warranty work. And I do wonder if it is back to stock, if they will call me out on nuts being noticeable removed/installed and charge me anyhow.

I'd be a bit worried too. Worse case is you get denied and have to spend the $600. Or they fix it. Don't really see the harm in trying.

 

[I'm Tony Danza]

Slight update: Replaced the right front strut, with new upper and lower isolators. Noise still remains. I did discover that I have the exact same noise as does StingsLikeABee in this thread, see post #268 on this page for the videos:

Road/tire noise.

Attaching more videos of the strange noise coming from the front/front-right side of the car. This is really starting to get on my nerves since it now happens on basically every drive. Can anyone else hear a hollow hum while I am driving and going over bumps? (notice the hollow bump sound at...

stingerforum.org

Had a friend drive it slowly over some rough ice today, while I was listening outside, right next to the wheel. Whatever is making the sound, it is echoing inside the wheel, which in turn is making it that much louder in the car. Over very slow bumps, it sounds like a hollow rubber pop sound. At speed it is the loud moan that is heard in StingsLikeABee vids. Didn't hear it in the engine compartment, just inside the wheel.

What's crazy is that is it so loud that it should be so obvious. Stings took his to the dealer and they didn't find anything, but admitted to the sound. We both tried new tires and nada.

 

[Snowwhite]

A couple other observations:

- It is not speed dependent and the noise is as loud as it is at 2mph as it is at 70mph
- It doesn't change in pitch.
- Turning and braking have no effects. The noise remains in any case.

these three would rule out anything related to the hub and the brake disc, since they both change speed.

does not rule out caliper, sway bar link, sway bar bracket, strut mount to knuckle, control arm bushings, or a metal item coming in contact with the sheet metal in the wheel well. You’ve certainly moved/touched quite a few of those while installing and removing your springs and the strut, so I’d look at the control arms and their bushings next.

 

[I'm Tony Danza]

these three would rule out anything related to the hub and the brake disc, since they both change speed.

does not rule out caliper, sway bar link, sway bar bracket, strut mount to knuckle, control arm bushings, or a metal item coming in contact with the sheet metal in the wheel well. You’ve certainly moved/touched quite a few of those while installing and removing your springs and the strut, so I’d look at the control arms and their bushings next.

Agree with your deductions.

So I did take off the sway bar link and gave it a safe 20 ft drive. Sound remains. The strut has been removed multiple times (and just replaced with a new one today) and I haven't touched the caliper amidst all of this. One would think after multiple removals/installs with proper torque each time, something would have cured the problem.

I have been curious about the control arm bushings, but I could just be going mad lol. Neither lower arm was removed at any mounting point, which does make you having to push the whole hub/rotor/caliper/axle down quite a bit in order to remove the strut. This seemed like a common method with other people. I cannot see any visible tears nor is there any shaking or vibration.

 

[GT Elite]

Hears a thought. I wonder if it could be the bearing at the top of the strut?

 

[Snowwhite]

Check fuse box by washer fluid fill to make sure it’s not bouncing around, as well as torquing the strut bar brace from there to the radiator bracket just in case. Maybe the air box is striking the brace?

 

[narsnail]

That's a very weird frequency; I have a really good headset and I cranked the volume. It sounds like a resonance, could be traveling up and bouncing off any number of things. Is your strut dust shield secure? It could that causing a weird frequency. There are also plastic hex screws inside the wheel well that keeps the actual plastic wheel well shielding secure, are they tight?

The lower ball joints for the control arms, I found the specified torque values were not nearly as tight as the first time I undid them. They also have a tapered design. Maybe undo them and clean both those and holes they go into. Obviously not good to over torque things but when you're constantly doing it, it may take a bit of extra torque, like 5 or 10 ft/lbs to get it where it was initially.

Another thing this car was finnicky with; is the hub mounting surface that touches the wheel completely clean, as well as the wheel mounting surface? It's just weird that as soon as you change wheels the sound starts, not after you had the springs put on.

Are the lug nuts correct? Some Stingers have the mag-shank style, mine had acorn style, an aftermarket wheel will have possibly a different style.

Do you know if the axle nuts were removed? Those are torque to yield, and if they were removed they need to be replaced.

Is the front underbody covering completely secured? Mine was missing some plastic push tabs which caused some excess wind noise, not the noise you're hearing but something to look at anyway.

I feel for ya, I spent months chasing weird-ass problems with this car that were all self-inflicted wounds and it drove me absolutely mental.

 

[I'm Tony Danza]

Hears a thought. I wonder if it could be the bearing at the top of the strut?

Check fuse box by washer fluid fill to make sure it’s not bouncing around, as well as torquing the strut bar brace from there to the radiator bracket just in case. Maybe the air box is striking the brace?

Good brainstorming, but all were fine when I checked them. The sound it definitely coming from the suspension, as far as I can tell. I had the hood open while my friend drove it slowly and didn't hear a peep from inside the engine bay. We could both hear it coming from the area inside the wheel.

That's a very weird frequency; I have a really good headset and I cranked the volume. It sounds like a resonance, could be traveling up and bouncing off any number of things. Is your strut dust shield secure? It could that causing a weird frequency. There are also plastic hex screws inside the wheel well that keeps the actual plastic wheel well shielding secure, are they tight?

The lower ball joints for the control arms, I found the specified torque values were not nearly as tight as the first time I undid them. They also have a tapered design. Maybe undo them and clean both those and holes they go into. Obviously not good to over torque things but when you're constantly doing it, it may take a bit of extra torque, like 5 or 10 ft/lbs to get it where it was initially.

Another thing this car was finnicky with; is the hub mounting surface that touches the wheel completely clean, as well as the wheel mounting surface? It's just weird that as soon as you change wheels the sound starts, not after you had the springs put on.

Are the lug nuts correct? Some Stingers have the mag-shank style, mine had acorn style, an aftermarket wheel will have possibly a different style.

Do you know if the axle nuts were removed? Those are torque to yield, and if they were removed they need to be replaced.

Yeah, that's the best how I can describe it. A unique resonance that is traveling through the suspension/body, which I have never heard on any car with traditional suspension/hub issues. Like a tuning fork, the smallest of sound is being amplified by 100x. It is incredibly annoying going down most highways. Even my 3 year old daughter said it was too loud and that I need to fix it. Kids, lol.

I was thinking my next stop would be the control arms. I have not touched those at all during this process, but figure at this point maybe remove them and re-install. My curiosity is that either the hub castle nuts are not tight enough from the factory or the subframe bushings got bound up a bit when "forcing" the arms down for the strut install.

The axle but was loosed up when I took off the factory spring, as I needed a bit more room for the strut/spring assembly to come out safely. The room for error on the AWD is paper thin. I did tighten it down correctly...and again after hearing this noise, but no change. I do need to order another one, but was wanting to find the problem first, so I wasn't burning through multiple axle nuts trying to find this issue.

Lug nuts are correct for both sets of wheels. I will also clean the mating surface the next time I have the wheel off, which will of course be soon :/