Four days after inspection - many errors after starting and dealer seems helpless

[papaya]

Hello dear forum,

my name is Philipp and I'm from Germany.
I've found your forum when I was searching for the Stinger Service Manual, which has brought many insights to me.

My odyssey has started 4 weeks ago. I've driven to my dealer for an inspection and many things have been changed: engine oil, engine oil filter, three air filters, gearbox oil.
After driving home (no errors have appeared, everything working fine), the vehicle was standing four days at the same place and was not moved.

Then I've started the vehicle again, and a bunch of error messages was showing up:



First of all, I seriously think the errors are NOT linked to the inspection, that's purely coincidential.
The errors are: Front Collision Assistant (FCA), ESP, MIL, EPB, AUTO HOLD, and Start Stop (A) is flashing.

Most interesting: the RPM gauge (tachometer) is not working anymore and stays at 0 RPM.

Driven again to the dealer, and his diagnosis tablet has shown five error codes (translated from German):

P033500 crankshaft position sensor A, CKPS
C164808 erros CAN signal ECM/EMS for ACC/SCC
C136801 irreversible ESP error
C161381 error CAN signal EMS
B130487 error engine condition signal

First we've thought a marten (animal) has bitten though some wires, but nothing could be found. Surprisingly, the car drives pretty normal with some little bucking while shifting gears.

On spec, my dealer ordered a new CKPS and changed it one week later, but that did not change anything. Then the dealer said it will be complicated and he will contact the Kia dealer service.

Now, three weeks later, he still seems to be helpless, perhaps he does not want to help me because he does not earn money with me (everything is going on warranty).

Fot this reason, I've downloaded the service manual and could follow the electrical circuits (hopefully I've not done a mistake):

The high/low signal from the CKPS delivers the RPM to the ECM/ECU (connector A):



From there, the information is converted in the ECM/ECU and transmitted (connector K) to the instrument cluster and the IBU.



The IBU itself delivers the information for the CAN bus.


In my opinion, the dealer should check th pins 68/69/70 from ECU connector A with an oscilloscope to see with the CKPS is really working correctly or wheher some wires are damaged.

If everything is OK with that, he could check if the the engine speed output signal (pin 72 + B+) is working correctly. If not, the ECU is damaged. If yes, the wires the instrument cluster and IBU should be checked.

As I said, my dealer is not too helpful in the moment. Do you have any ideas to how to solve the issue? Perhaps only a simple fuse?

Best regards
Philipp

 

[MerlintheMad]

Sounds like you should be working as the service manager! I hope you get somebody on this quick; he sounds pretty useless.

 

[nhcowboy28]

Sorry to hear.

I don’t believe in coincidences.

something happened/was touched.

there should be troubleshooting logic flows the dealer tech can consult. Sad they are throwing parts and then waiting.

best of luck. Might have to get legal involved.

 

[Ohiocruiser]

Bad battery?

 

[hummus]

This is a total shot in the dark, but for two older German cars I had(E39 and W208), a faulty ABS sensor caused an array of warning lights, including ECS, and if memory serves, braking assist and brake lamp. Some of the error messages seemed only to tangentially involve the braking system, but apparently the faulty sensor was enough to trigger a number of warnings up the chain. For a number of the subsystems that you mentioned, if they existed back then, I could see them having lit up as well.

Either way, I hope it works out.

 

[SafetyPilotCal]

I have no idea why they're throwing parts at this. You've got multiple CAN errors. This combined with all the collision warning system errors, start stop errors, among others would tell my relatively layman brain that something is massively corrupting the CAN data somewhere. A crank position sensor would make sense if the only problem was a dead tach (tach signal comes from CKPS). I've had plenty of GM vehicles where this has happened over the years.

You've got a much bigger issue, and it's insane (but not at all surprising with Kia) that the dealer can't troubleshoot this. This could be a lot of things - bad ground/power issue somewhere, animal damage, or a module somewhere on the network just throwing endless garbage into the bus. The service department needs to be doing diagnostics, not replacing random items and hoping for the best. Sorry you're dealing with this.

 

[dimwit]

Time to try another dealer.

 

[papaya]

Thanks a lot for your massive feedback so far!

Since start stop has not worked for about half a year, I've changed the battery myself two weeks ago on spec, but no success.

I forgot to do this the last days, but today I will call another dealer to tell the problem.

If anything was really damaged while the inspection, what could it possibly be?

 

[Snowwhite]

I'm not claiming to be an expert, nor can I guarantee this is the same problem, but I did have similar issues with my G80 (except for the tach not working, mine was fine) and the fix was to replace the SCC module. On the Stinger, it is in the front passenger area where the fuse box is. At the very least, I would check connections there and the front radar sensor as well. My dealer had the SCC module in stock and changed it out in less than 4 hours and I never had the problem again.

 

[Devin]

My money is on the ECU being the culprit. Too many errors that don't seem connected.

 

[oddball]

Do you have a code reader? You can get very good bluetooth tools that you can use from your phone. Sometimes it's tough to get the vendor-specific codes. I haven't done any research on Kia details yet. Autel makes several affordable code readers with vendor extensions.

I would guess the crankshaft position sensor error is transient. I would clear that and see if it comes back.
The engine can't run without the crankshaft position sensor. That code can get set when the ECU can't interpret the signal at a moment in time, like loose wiring. Sometimes it is from signal interference. Make sure all the wiring in that area is correctly bundled and retained. I've seen issues where a failing ignition coil causes electrical interference with nearby sensors, so strange codes get set that aren't related to the real problem. Sometimes I've seen OEs set unrelated codes in the P series because that's what they have and it's really just a flag to tell someone to look at the car and read the vendor specific codes (B and C series in this case).

Everything else appears to be smart cruise control related. Removing the front bumper only takes a few minutes and there are guides here on this site. I would remove the bumper to check the wiring to the radar unit, and trace that wiring as far as you can looking for damage or disconnects.

Make sure that's the full list of codes. Well, depends on if you want to try to figure this out yourself or if you just want to hand the car to a dealer and wait for them to figure it out.

 

[papaya]

Update after one week:

Last week I talked to two other dealers who were very friendly, but they had to refuse me because already another dealer is already handling this warranty case.

Two days ago I wrote an email to Kia customer where I've asked them to support my dealer in this warranty case. Yesterday they answered that my dealer will contact me short term and that the electronics department from Kia is already involved.

Let's see where this will end...

 

[General_Vodka]

Update after one week:

Last week I talked to two other dealers who were very friendly, but they had to refuse me because already another dealer is already handling this warranty case.

Two days ago I wrote an email to Kia customer where I've asked them to support my dealer in this warranty case. Yesterday they answered that my dealer will contact me short term and that the electronics department from Kia is already involved.

Let's see where this will end...

is the shifter gear indicator lighting up when you open the door? If not then there is an issue with the front wire harness. I had the same issues, rpm and collision not working. My front harness was the issue, it's the one that goes from the smart cruise module in the bumper to the car.

 

[papaya]

is the shifter gear indicator lighting up when you open the door? If not then there is an issue with the front wire harness. I had the same issues, rpm and collision not working. My front harness was the issue, it's the one that goes from the smart cruise module in the bumper to the car.

Thanks for your hint, but what do you mean exactly with "shifter gear indicator lighting up" in this case? Could you describe this a bit further?

Some damaged harness definitely would make sense

 

[General_Vodka]

Thanks for your hint, but what do you mean exactly with "shifter gear indicator lighting up" in this case? Could you describe this a bit further?

Some damaged harness definitely would make sense

you know when you unlock and open the car door the P R N D light up near the gear shifter? my gt2 did not, even with the car on. was going crazy checking fuses and was about to tear my center console apart until I found the harness in the bumper.

 

[papaya]

Ahh OK, just checked this.
When the car is locked, lights are out.
When the car is unlocked and the door is opened, lights are on

 

[papaya]

Good morning together, another update after 3 weeks of silence:

The dealer now has found marten bites in the main harness, obviously very hard to detect.
Very probably my insurance will pay the bill (~ 4500 €).

 

[MerlintheMad]

Good morning together, another update after 3 weeks of silence:

The dealer now has found marten bites in the main harness, obviously very hard to detect.
Very probably my insurance will pay the bill (~ 4500 €).

Martens!? And I worry about mice. Heh!

 

[WRXtoStingerGT]

Good morning together, another update after 3 weeks of silence:

The dealer now has found marten bites in the main harness, obviously very hard to detect.
Very probably my insurance will pay the bill (~ 4500 €).

Martens are cute though... what a disaster...

Martens!? And I worry about mice. Heh!

I think Martens are adorable animals...

 

[MerlintheMad]

I think Martens are adorable animals...

I'm sure your Stinger has a differing opinion.