3.3TT Mishimoto's Stinger GT Intercooler Kit R&D Thread

[Slow jams]

Hey can you please explain “the entire charge volume is going to be substantially bigger, and it's going to take that much longer to pressurize the increased space.” I’m know I’m way off...Simplest image to me is shoe box and pvc pipe? so I see it as more air being pushed in to a shoe box because of a bigger pipe the faster the box fills up...so more volume of air in the faster it builds in pressure no? I’m always down to learn

 

[General_Vodka]

Hey can you please explain “the entire charge volume is going to be substantially bigger, and it's going to take that much longer to pressurize the increased space.” I’m know I’m way off...Simplest image to me is shoe box and pvc pipe? so I see it as more air being pushed in to a shoe box because of a bigger pipe the faster the box fills up...so more volume of air in the faster it builds in pressure no? I’m always down to learn

bigger pipe = loss of velocity. more air = more power but it will take a bit longer to move that air into the shoe box

 

[Toddasaurus]

Think of it like this.

You have a turbo that is only able to produce a certain VOLUME of air per minute. Specifically, CFM (cubic feet per minute). That said, since the output, or the "air" produced by the turbos are essentially static (not really, but for simplicity's sake let's say they are) and we change the volume of the "box" you are trying to fill (ie the charge volume, which is everything after the turbo compressor up to the intake valves, or even the cylinders themselves, arguably) then it will take longer to fill said "box" when you are making it bigger.

A much more simplified way to look at it is to grab a garden hose. Turn it on full blast, that can be your turbos max output of compressed air. Grab a gallon milk jug, put the hose in the top and let her rip. The time it takes to fill the jug and spill over the top is our pretend way of visualizing the time it takes to pressurize the charge piping and intercooler (ie spool to full boost) and subsequently spill into the engine. Now, if you switch to a 2 gallon or 5 gallon jug (ie get a larger intercooler) then obviously it will take a LOT longer for the hose to fill up the jug and spill over. Why? Because you only changed the charge volume (ie the jug) but not the output of the turbo (ie the water hose).

That said, ANY TIME you increase charge volume, your turbos will take longer to "spool" (ie build to full boost).

Now keep in mind that what I said is not taking into account flow of said pressurized gas. That's way more complicated and way above what I understand.

Oh also, one more thing. My analogy isn't perfect. It would seem like getting a bigger hose and more water pressure would be equivalent to just getting a bigger turbo. THIS ISNT THE CASE. Keep in mind that turbos use exhaust gasses to make them spool, so simply running a bigger turbo is NOT going to decrease your spool times. Instead, you'd need more displacement (ie exhaust gasses) to spool said bigger turbo (and probably have a larger intake as well) for it to be equivalent to having a larger hose with more water pressure in my analogy. Even so, again, this analogy has many flaws, so you can't directly translate everything to how our cars work, but this is just one, very simple, way of visualizing just one part of what is going on during boost.

Hope that makes sense.


Edit: clarification. grammar. etc.

 

[Slow jams]

Totally appreciate it... way better understanding

 

[Hockster]

Toddasaurus - homeschooling since 2020

 

[Metalmania82]

@Toddasaurus love the info and comparison, thank you. Now, how does affect real world driving? Daily driving not at the strip or track.

 

[Toddasaurus]

@Toddasaurus love the info and comparison, thank you. Now, how does affect real world driving? Daily driving not at the strip or track.

Good question. It will hit full boost a few hundred rpm later I would guess. I'm sure there is a way to calculate it with math, but I am not nearly smart enough to do such a thing. The difference may not be terribly significant, but there will be a difference.

We will know for sure when it's finally released!

 

[Slow jams]

learning a lot from you guys so thank yous again...so Question when I was going to the track to race my friend’s 2017 5.0 mustang he has the JLT cold air intake and went catless... in the 1/4 mile I would beat him constantly but he would catch up so fast and eventually pass me easily anything I can do to Prevent that

 

[turboAWD]

learning a lot from you guys so thank yous again...so Question when I was going to the track to race my friend’s 2017 5.0 mustang he has the JLT cold air intake and went catless... in the 1/4 mile I would beat him constantly but he would catch up so fast and eventually pass me easily anything I can do to Prevent that

Wait - he was catching you AFTER the 1/4? A good 1/4 run in a Stinger ends at ~110+ mph. How fast / where were you guys going 125+ mph?

In general, turbos have more low-down power than non-turbo cars. I.e. turbos fall off more at high rpm / high speeds. His 5.0 will have more power left up top, and it will eventually reel you in - car is probably a bit lighter, more gears, etc.

Do you have any mods? jb4 + E30/WMI should give him a good run..

 

[G-983686]

only mods I have are K and N cold air-intake, magnaflow exhaust...
going to do the dual catch cans this week (finally came in this week) and when I do the intercooler I’ll be adding big mouth snorkel’s and JB4 tune at the same time. sxth element has a tuner but I don’t want to change my spark plugs. We run pretty hard but I only mess around at the local track. I know with my AWD it’s about 400 pounds heavier than RWD So I’m trying to compensate for that I’ve hit 120 easy in that thing...

 

[G-72509]

The only mods I have Are Magna flow exhaust and k and N COLDAIR-intake. I have videos and pictures also just got in sxth element Dual catch cans so their going in this week. Right now we run pretty hard hit 120 easy at the local track I don’t like messing around in the streets. This summer when the motto intercooler comes in I’ll be doing the big mouth snorkels and a jb4 tune I would love to do a down pipe but don’t know if it’s worth it ... can’t wait for the motto intercooler stats....yo Nick *Hint Hint*

 

[G-401776]

Wait - he was catching you AFTER the 1/4? A good 1/4 run in a Stinger ends at ~110+ mph. How fast / where were you guys going 125+ mph?

In general, turbos have more low-down power than non-turbo cars. I.e. turbos fall off more at high rpm / high speeds. His 5.0 will have more power left up top, and it will eventually reel you in - car is probably a bit lighter, more gears, etc.

Do you have any mods? jb4 + E30/WMI should give him a good run..

Right now all I have is the magna flow exhaust with the K and N cold air intake. Currently we run pretty hard at the local track hit 120 easy We go a little bit further than a quarter mile not much but his mustang is right there... hopefully once the Moto intercooler comes in I’ll do the big mouth snorkels and A JB4 tune ...
Sxth Element has a tuner but I don’t want to change my spark plugs Thinking about a downpipe but I don’t think it’s going to give me much what do you think?

very new to turbos I’ve always had V-8’s my whole life ...my first car was an 87 Z28...had a 73 mach1 with a Cleveland it was Bored 30 over dual carb etc.. had a Ws6 with the Ls1 stroked...

 

[Slow jams]

Wait - he was catching you AFTER the 1/4? A good 1/4 run in a Stinger ends at ~110+ mph. How fast / where were you guys going 125+ mph?

In general, turbos have more low-down power than non-turbo cars. I.e. turbos fall off more at high rpm / high speeds. His 5.0 will have more power left up top, and it will eventually reel you in - car is probably a bit lighter, more gears, etc.

Do you have any mods? jb4 + E30/WMI should give him a good run..

all I’ve done is magna flow exhaust and K and N cold air intakes. Just got my catch can and will be installing this week. I’m waiting for motto intercooler than I will install big mouth snorkels and get a JB4 tuner at the same time. Sxth Element has a good tuner I heard but I don’t want to change the spark plugs. Would you recommend a downpipe?
When we run at the track We go a little pass a 1/4 and he is right there we both hit over 120 easy. Will be posting videos next time we run. We never play in the street it’s just not worth it.
What’s that W30/WMI?

 

[cncBilly]

all I’ve done is magna flow exhaust and K and N cold air intakes. Just got my catch can and will be installing this week. I’m waiting for motto intercooler than I will install big mouth snorkels and get a JB4 tuner at the same time. Sxth Element has a good tuner I heard but I don’t want to change the spark plugs. Would you recommend a downpipe?
When we run at the track We go a little pass a 1/4 and he is right there we both hit over 120 easy. Will be posting videos next time we run. We never play in the street it’s just not worth it.
What’s that W30/WMI?

Go over to the JB4 thread lots to learn there. If you plan on tuning plan on learning how to change the plugs as regapping is a must. Happy reading

 

[turboAWD]

all I’ve done is magna flow exhaust and K and N cold air intakes. Just got my catch can and will be installing this week. I’m waiting for motto intercooler than I will install big mouth snorkels and get a JB4 tuner at the same time. Sxth Element has a good tuner I heard but I don’t want to change the spark plugs. Would you recommend a downpipe?
When we run at the track We go a little pass a 1/4 and he is right there we both hit over 120 easy. Will be posting videos next time we run. We never play in the street it’s just not worth it.
What’s that W30/WMI?

As someone else said - plugs is pretty much a must for ANY tuning, other than maybe Tork / Pressertech. Sxth Element tuner is one more basic chip that is similar to things like Racechip - which most people end up returning for a jb4.. If you're going piggyback, unless you want to be 100% stealth, it's pretty much jb4 or nothing, right now, for the Stinger, IMHO. Not saying there aren't good piggybacks on other platforms, nor that there won't be better piggybacks in the future for the Stinger. Some people love LAP3, but IMHO, there aren't enough users to prove its reliability for me.

For tunes, Pressertech seems like a good solid tune, and IIRC, no plugs needed, but probably recommended. Same for Tork, IIRC. Tork has a more aggressive tune, but also rubs MANY people the wrong way with his personality. May or may not matter to you. Both require sending in your ECU. jb4 is plug-and-play..

Edit: re plugs - people have found the stock plugs gapped anywhere from 0.028 to 0.036 on the same car from the factory.. I think my range was similar. Not exactly good for consistent results.

 

[Slow jams]

Go over to the JB4 thread lots to learn there. If you plan on tuning plan on learning how to change the plugs as regapping is a must. Happy reading

I’ll start reading from the first post.... That doesn’t need me to ask a yes or no question

 

[General_Vodka]

Plugs are a must. Did mine even with a Pressertech tune. JB4 needs plugs, all the piggybacks do. There is a thread here with a bunch of tips. It's not rocket science. - says the guy with half his car disassembled lol

I’ll start reading from the first post.... That doesn’t need me to ask a yes or no question

 

[JDM_Man]

@Mishimoto Will the intercooler have 1 BOV flange or two? Also will something like the BMS Tial BOV kit still work on your intercooler kit as its one piece?

Thanks.

 

[JDM_Man]

@Mishimoto Have you thought about placing a single BOV flange on the cold pipe? Closer to the TB the better.

 

[Toddasaurus]

Looks like Nick made a new post in the engineering blog. Can be seen below...

Float like a Butterfly, Sting like a Kia? – Performance Intercooler R&D, Part 6 – Blow-Off Valve Adapter


Not much new info on the actual intercooler or piping, but they go into a lot of detail about using a blow off valve vs the OEM diverter valves. Worth a read. But, in my opinion, a waste of time to mess with aftermarket BOV's. Mishi themselves showed that the most popular BOV's that many Stinger enthusiasts are using right now actually are slower than the stock diverter valves. Pretty dang nice to have some actual test results on OEM vs aftermarket BOV's.


@Mishimoto - would it be possible to just buy the new merge pipe complete with the associated couplers?



Edit: I posted the wrong link at first, also added some thoughts.