Midpipes dyno results...bring tissue

[Stiletto]

So, I finally got around to putting the hoopty on the rollers. I wanted to get a baseline, but I was to eager in January and installed the Stillen intakes. In addition to those, I have JB4 on map 2 with 2 step colder plugs. From map 0 to map 2 without the A RK pipes, is a significant gain. After installing the pipes, driving about an hour with several WOT pulls, we put her back on the dyno. The results were less than impressive. However, you can clearly see timing being pulled in the midrange. I do feel the car builds boost faster and pulls a bit harder. Definitely responds faster at highway speeds. The sound is VERY modest above stock.

 

[Toddasaurus]

Nice! Thanks for sharing!

Gained 1ft-lb of max torque, and 3whp. Haha. BUT - it looks like you gained much more than that between 4000-5750 RPM's. That being said, I think midpipes are a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[Callum]

I have mid-pipes, intake and nothing else on the engine.

At times, I have felt that it is a little slower, but the boost does hit harder. Something I really like. the biggest thing for me is the small gain in sound, but without being too loud. It's just right to be honest.

All in, losing or gaining 5WHP, isn't a huge issue for me. I just like the way it sounds, lol.

 

[CeramicGT001]

I have mid-pipes, intake and nothing else on the engine.

I also only have down pipe and intake. I bought them last year when we were under the assumption they were giving us 15-20hp. Total cost was $600 installed ($530 for ark down pipe + $70 install). They do add a nice sound increase but if I were to do it again now I would just buy the MBRP catback and call it a day. (MBRP wasn’t out yet last spring)

 

[Stiletto]

Nice! Thanks for sharing!

Gained 1ft-lb of max torque, and 3whp. Haha. BUT - it looks like you gained much more than that between 4000-5750 RPM's. That being said, I think midpipes are a worthwhile upgrade.

It's clear that timing is being pulled once the pipes are on. If that didn't occur, I'm pretty sure the gains would be more.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

It's clear that timing is being pulled once the pipes are on. If that didn't occur, I'm pretty sure the gains would be more.

The graph tells a lot more than the peak numbers: there's easily a 20HP difference in some parts of the horsepower line between stock DPs and aftermarket DPs. The peak horsepower being such a small difference demonstrates other limiting factors (example: fueling) while there being a much larger difference in the midrange says that there are definitely gains to be had with secondary DPs. Of course, you could feel this because a 20HP/20FT-LB difference in the midrange is going to see you pulling through said range quicker, noticeable by the butt dyno.

In other words, the gain in midrange will make you a faster car than the same car on same mods without the ARK DPs because your power band is improved while your peak remains relatively unchanged.

 

[turboAWD]

What happened at 4000 rpm in the "tuned, stock vs non-stock" pipes for the stock DP graph (red line)? Huge dip. Until that point, stock pipes were ahead. Plus, it looks like after 5000 or 5500 rpm, it's mostly a wash anyway. I'd rather have more power 1500-4000, be down a bit from 4000-5000 than be down all the way up to 4000...

 

[Stiletto]

What happened at 4000 rpm in the "tuned, stock vs non-stock" pipes for the stock DP graph (red line)? Huge dip. Until that point, stock pipes were ahead. Plus, it looks like after 5000 or 5500 rpm, it's mostly a wash anyway. I'd rather have more power 1500-4000, be down a bit from 4000-5000 than be down all the way up to 4000...

That's timing being pulled. My guess is the car 1) hasn't learned a new fuel map or 2) it doesn't like the additional boost that the JB4 is allowing. I'm leaning towards the second reason.

 

[Stiletto]

The graph tells a lot more than the peak numbers: there's easily a 20HP difference in some parts of the horsepower line between stock DPs and aftermarket DPs. The peak horsepower being such a small difference demonstrates other limiting factors (example: fueling) while there being a much larger difference in the midrange says that there are definitely gains to be had with secondary DPs. Of course, you could feel this because a 20HP/20FT-LB difference in the midrange is going to see you pulling through said range quicker, noticeable by the butt dyno.

In other words, the gain in midrange will make you a faster car than the same car on same mods without the ARK DPs because your power band is improved while your peak remains relatively unchanged.

Not trying to sound argumentative, but I know (and my dyno operator) how to read a dyno graph. I can feel the power difference, but the car is undeniably resisting the mid-range torque increase.

I did not post this plot earlier, but it shows no organic power increase, and modicum of torque gain. This is no tune, pipes vs no pipes.

 

[ZyroXZ2]

What happened at 4000 rpm in the "tuned, stock vs non-stock" pipes for the stock DP graph (red line)? Huge dip. Until that point, stock pipes were ahead. Plus, it looks like after 5000 or 5500 rpm, it's mostly a wash anyway. I'd rather have more power 1500-4000, be down a bit from 4000-5000 than be down all the way up to 4000...

Yay, it's argue with turboAWD week! YASSSSSSSSSSSS

Nah just kidding, but saying it's a wash would not quite be accurate. From a dig, maybe it'll be a tad slower, but since every gearshift from then on stays in the 4k+ RPM range, that midrange power equates to having 20HP more for a portion of time than one with stock DPs. He can feel the difference because there is one, it's just not at the peak.

Not trying to sound argumentative, but I know (and my dyno operator) how to read a dyno graph. I can feel the power difference, but the car is undeniably resisting the mid-range torque increase.

I did not post this plot earlier, but it shows no organic power increase, and modicum of torque gain. This is no tune, pipes vs no pipes.

I think you misread my response as some sort of condescending reply, but it wasn't. People on this forum are constantly going on about aftermarket DPs offering no additional gains, but are always looking at peak numbers. Your dyno proves the opposite: there are gains, it's just not where people expected it to be. There are virtually no peak gains, but a wider power band instead.

Also, I don't think you mean "no" tune, but the "stock" map (whether the JB4 simply sends stock mapping values or acts as a passthrough I don't know). In stock form, I would inherently not expect much change, or that it would be much more dependent on the catback at that point. When I had a catback and intake, I then did custom secondaries and also experienced what you said: it pulls harder. And then on some days, it felt like it just didn't want to do shit. Sometimes, I'm pretty sure this car has a mind of its own...

 

[Oryan]

More to mods than just making more power. Freeing up the exhust lets that hot exhaust get out more quickly, making the turbo more efficient and able to build boost faster, which gets you going faster, and lowers EGTs meaning less heat to deal with, so you can have more runs with less worry about heat soak.

 

[turboAWD]

Yay, it's argue with turboAWD week! YASSSSSSSSSSSS

Nah just kidding, but saying it's a wash would not quite be accurate. From a dig, maybe it'll be a tad slower, but since every gearshift from then on stays in the 4k+ RPM range, that midrange power equates to having 20HP more for a portion of time than one with stock DPs. He can feel the difference because there is one, it's just not at the peak.

Sure, and if that's where you spend MOST of your acceleration time, then great. Me, I tend to spend most time driving around town, getting a quick 0-30 or 40 run off when I can. For that, it's probably close to a wash. For 100 mph+ runs (and maybe on the track, as I'm hoping to do soon), maybe not - but I'm not going to worry about another 20 hp on the track, when I need to worry 5x more about brakes, fluid, tires, and 10x more about the nut behind the wheel

Edit: not to mention the couple of guys who had trouble with studs breaking off at the turbo - I'll give up 20 hp to avoid that crazy hassle any day of the week. I had enough fun messing with those with my Legacy GT, swapping TMIC/DP every 2 years for SMOG (3 or 4 times swap back and then back again).. With jb4 map2, I'm already ~500+ hp (not whp). I don't need every single hp out of this car when it's only 6 months old..

 

[ZyroXZ2]

Sure, and if that's where you spend MOST of your acceleration time, then great. Me, I tend to spend most time driving around town, getting a quick 0-30 or 40 run off when I can. For that, it's probably close to a wash. For 100 mph+ runs (and maybe on the track, as I'm hoping to do soon), maybe not - but I'm not going to worry about another 20 hp on the track, when I need to worry 5x more about brakes, fluid, tires, and 10x more about the nut behind the wheel

Edit: not to mention the couple of guys who had trouble with studs breaking off at the turbo - I'll give up 20 hp to avoid that crazy hassle any day of the week. I had enough fun messing with those with my Legacy GT, swapping TMIC/DP every 2 years for SMOG (3 or 4 times swap back and then back again).. With jb4 map2, I'm already ~500+ hp (not whp). I don't need every single hp out of this car when it's only 6 months old..

If you're driving around town, you won't notice the powerband difference doing some half or 1/3 throttle jabs to 30 or 40 between stock and aftermarket, lol

Also, he said ARK DPs, which are secondaries, not primaries. ARK doesn't make primaries as far as I know, so stripping studs at the turbo isn't an issue in this particular thread topic.

 

[Toddasaurus]

Edit: not to mention the couple of guys who had trouble with studs breaking off at the turbo - I'll give up 20 hp to avoid that crazy hassle any day of the week.

Hah! Let me tell you, it was super shitty!

Also, he said ARK DPs, which are secondaries, not primaries. ARK doesn't make primaries as far as I know, so stripping studs at the turbo isn't an issue in this particular thread topic.

Thankfully this guy here gave me a few good pointers for the turbo replacement! Now we know it can be done for both the Stinger and the G70.

 

[turboAWD]

If you're driving around town, you won't notice the powerband difference doing some half or 1/3 throttle jabs to 30 or 40 between stock and aftermarket, lol

Also, he said ARK DPs, which are secondaries, not primaries. ARK doesn't make primaries as far as I know, so stripping studs at the turbo isn't an issue in this particular thread topic.

Ah, my bad.. Seems I got the order confused. Definitely NOT doing primaries.. Too many things that can go wrong - both hardware and regulation wise

 

[Stiletto]

I think you misread my response as some sort of condescending reply, but it wasn't. People on this forum are constantly going on about aftermarket DPs offering no additional gains, but are always looking at peak numbers. Your dyno proves the opposite: there are gains, it's just not where people expected it to be. There are virtually no peak gains, but a wider power band instead.

Also, I don't think you mean "no" tune, but the "stock" map (whether the JB4 simply sends stock mapping values or acts as a passthrough I don't know). In stock form, I would inherently not expect much change, or that it would be much more dependent on the catback at that point. When I had a catback and intake, I then did custom secondaries and also experienced what you said: it pulls harder. And then on some days, it felt like it just didn't want to do shit. Sometimes, I'm pretty sure this car has a mind of its own...

We're good! The exact reason why I did this...to show that midpipes do make *some* power.

According to Burger Motorsports, map 0 "removes" itself from the equation for ECU metrics.

 

[Stiletto]

More to mods than just making more power. Freeing up the exhust lets that hot exhaust get out more quickly, making the turbo more efficient and able to build boost faster, which gets you going faster, and lowers EGTs meaning less heat to deal with, so you can have more runs with less worry about heat soak.

I'm well aware. But, this platform is new, so empirical data is necessary for consumers and manufacturers alike.

Also, my pipes are SwainTech coated and have DEI titanium exhaust wrapped around them. So, even more heat excavation and less radiating heat under the car.

 

[Oryan]

I'm well aware. But, this platform is new, so empirical data is necessary for consumers and manufacturers alike.

Also, my pipes are SwainTech coated and have DEI titanium exhaust wrapped around them. So, even more heat excavation and less radiating heat under the car.

Mmm, Swaintech. That's not cheap. I'm going to go to primaries eventually, with a HFC. I may consider a Swaintech coating on that depending on what's on the market later this year but the secondaries? Bit much for me lol.

 

[zbc1969]

So assuming that the car isn’t normally going to pull timing, the midpipes make negligible difference

 

[techguy888]

So assuming that the car isn’t normally going to pull timing, the midpipes make negligible difference

Pulled timing reduces the engine performance. This is likely a result if increased boost due to increased exhaust velocity. If this protection in the ECU’s programming were defeated by tune or piggyback, midpipes would make even more power than what these dyno graphs show.