Used Stinger GT Market Info

[Logic717]

Time for the bimonthly update.

View attachment 32704

Resale values took a big drop over the last two months - right around $1800 for all three GT models.

I've also been keeping an eye on CarGurus' stock numbers. On 9/15/19, there were 138 used V6 Stingers in their nationwide listings. On 10/15 the number is 220. A big increase in inventory considering it's too early for 24 month lease returns. Perhaps some trade-ins on Tellurides or other new/upcoming models?

I didn’t consider the volume of vehicles but that’s an interesting observation.

 

[Travis Wills]

Across the board, all used vehicle values are dropping rapidly.

That is correct. I was trying to sell a car 2 weeks ago and then the resell value dropped a couple of grand and it doesn’t make as much sense anymore.

 

[Travis Wills]

It is extremely interesting that KBB still has not listed the 2019 Kia Stinger for resell values. The Genesis G70 has had resell values since July. Maybe this increase in volume of used cars will cause it to be listed. I am really curious what a 2019 GT2 will list for.

 

[Rob M]

Time for the bimonthly update.

View attachment 32704

Resale values took a big drop over the last two months - right around $1800 for all three GT models.

I've also been keeping an eye on CarGurus' stock numbers. On 9/15/19, there were 138 used V6 Stingers in their nationwide listings. On 10/15 the number is 220. A big increase in inventory considering it's too early for 24 month lease returns. Perhaps some trade-ins on Tellurides or other new/upcoming models?

If you look more closely at CarGurus you will notice that when you filter for used cars in the current model year, they will typically insert a bunch of new cars into the middle of your search results. Kind of bogus, but I would imagine their sponsoring dealers insist on it. If I do a search on Stinger, used, years 2019 to 2019, location nationwide, and then filter by engine V6, certified pre-owned and used, there are only 23 listings. This is a miniscule number and also likely why KBB, etc., don't list pre-owned 2019 Stinger market prices yet.

 

[MisterMac]

It is extremely interesting that KBB still has not listed the 2019 Kia Stinger for resell values. The Genesis G70 has had resell values since July. Maybe this increase in volume of used cars will cause it to be listed. I am really curious what a 2019 GT2 will list for.

There simply isn't enough data to support publishing data on pre-owned 2019 values.

 

[Travis Wills]

There simply isn't enough data to support publishing data on pre-owned 2019 values.

But there are many more used 2019 Stingers on the market than 2019 G70 cars yet the G70 cars have had values for many months.

 

[Sabs]

If you look more closely at CarGurus you will notice that when you filter for used cars in the current model year, they will typically insert a bunch of new cars into the middle of your search results.

I’ve noticed that and accounted for it. If you select both the Used and CPO checkboxes at the left it will list the correct numbers for each. In the actual display of listings, there’s no way to remove sponsored new listings since they’re basically ads. My numbers include all used V6 Stingers, both 2018 and 2019.

 

[MisterMac]

But there are many more used 2019 Stingers on the market than 2019 G70 cars yet the G70 cars have had values for many months.

You must remember there is a huge difference between cars actually sold and cars for sale.

Only sales create the data for values. Most of that data comes from auctions.

 

[Rob M]

I’ve noticed that and accounted for it. If you select both the Used and CPO checkboxes at the left it will list the correct numbers for each. In the actual display of listings, there’s no way to remove sponsored new listings since they’re basically ads. My numbers are got all used Stingers, both 2018 and 2019.

For some reason i thought you were counting 2109s only. So the most likely reason for the increase in used stingers is that there are just more out there and a few end up back on the market. I bet there will be 500+ used Stingers for sale at any given time in a year or so as leases start to terminate

 

[turboAWD]

If you look more closely at CarGurus you will notice that when you filter for used cars in the current model year, they will typically insert a bunch of new cars into the middle of your search results.

They must have copied that from autotrader. I was using those sites SO much over the last few years while looking.. Slowly, they just kept getting worse and worse results. Some (carsforsale.com) went from great to unusable. Why do I have to pick 2017 Subaru STI, and have to go back to pick 2016 STI if I want to see those? It's like they're being paid to be LESS useful.

I hear truecar was the same way - initially helpful, then "dis"incentivized by dealers to stop being useful...

 

[SWFL_Native]

Thoughts on this listing? GT RWD Blue 35k miles non CPO for $27k in an accident (still clean/non salvage title)

Accident reported
- Involving left front impact
with another motor vehicle
- Damage to front
- Estimated damage exceeds $1,000
- Airbags did not deploy

kengarffused.com/inventory/used-2018-kia-stinger-gt-rwd-4dr-car-knae35lc9j6010859

carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?vin=KNAE35LC9J6010859&partner=COO_0

 

[Travis Wills]

Thoughts on this listing? GT RWD Blue 35k miles non CPO for $27k in an accident (still clean/non salvage title)

Accident reported
- Involving left front impact
with another motor vehicle
- Damage to front
- Estimated damage exceeds $1,000
- Airbags did not deploy

kengarffused.com/inventory/used-2018-kia-stinger-gt-rwd-4dr-car-knae35lc9j6010859

carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?vin=KNAE35LC9J6010859&partner=COO_0

Don’t buy a used car that was in an accident. Most online sites automatically disqualify wrecked cars. You should as well.

 

[LordStark]

Any updates on the used car market? It seems as if KBB is putting a fair market range on GT1 awd for 29-34k. Every listing I've seen has been slightly higher than that but that may be to give them a little negotiating room.

 

[Travis Wills]

Any updates on the used car market? It seems as if KBB is putting a fair market range on GT1 awd for 29-34k. Every listing I've seen has been slightly higher than that but that may be to give them a little negotiating room.

Good “trade in” value of an AWD 2019 Stinger GT1 with average mileage is about $34,656 according to KBB.

Fair purchase price is about $40k. There is a fair bit of markup there but nothing like what the INFINITI sedans have.

There is no way I would ever buy a used Stinger right now. The factory rebates on the 2019 cars are just too substantial to pass up on. You can get a brand new GT2 for about the price of a great condition low mileage used GT1.

 

[LordStark]

There is no way I would ever buy a used Stinger right now. The factory rebates on the 2019 cars are just too substantial to pass up on. You can get a brand new GT2 for about the price of a great condition low mileage used GT1.

At what price point do you think it's worth it to buy used vs new? I guess everyone has their own dollar limit but I would like to see used prices go down in to the mid to high twenties before I bought used.

 

[Travis Wills]

At what price point do you think it's worth it to buy used vs new? I guess everyone has their own dollar limit but I would like to see used prices go down in to the mid to high twenties before I bought used.

I wouldn’t buy a used Stinger period. However, that is just my own personal preference.

I wouldn’t trust how a used Stinger has been treated. This car is just too tempting to drive hard. Does the full warranty transfer over with a used car?

The discounts and low interest rates available on the brand new cars make it a very attractive car to buy brand new.

Also it holds its value decently against its MSRP and rather well against its Lease Capitalized cost.

Those things all make the used car a less desirable option.

Certainly if you found a 2019 GT2 with extremely low miles for well under its KBB value then it would seem like the better deal.

However, if a used car has that low of a price it usually is either too good to be true or that car has some serious issues.

People often say that you should buy a used car so that someone else takes the depreciation hit. That is true even with the Stinger. However, the rebates are so significant that the Manufacturer is the one taking the depreciation hit with the new cars.

 

[Paladin611]

This will be a long post – I decided to dig into the numbers and make some predictions.

First, looking at the residuals for Stinger GT leases, the value is estimated at 51-55% MSRP after 3 years. In other words, GT2’s have been estimated by Kia to be worth around $26.5k; GT’s around $21k.

Personally, I think the residuals will be way off.

I can see where Kia came up with the numbers – for many Kia models like the Optima, they would be accurate. Same goes for some competing luxury cars.

For example, the Hyundai Genesis/G80 get recommended as a great used car value. The 2015 Genesis V6 fully loaded topped out around $50k, similar to the Stinger GT2. At the 3 year mark, many were for sale under 60% of their original value. Now we’re past the 4 year mark and there are plenty available below 50% of original MSRP.

As good as the Genesis/G80 is, the demand isn’t high for it. Unlike the Stinger, it sold as many as 3,200 in a month. They were offered as luxury class rentals from Avis and the like, which brought a lot of used supply to the market.

Perhaps Kia used cars such as the Genesis along with their own lineup to come up with the residual numbers. What I don’t think they accounted for is enthusiasts.

We’ve seen what popularity with enthusiasts can do to the value of performance cars. It’s not even necessary to look back to the NSX and Supra of the 90’s.

The 1M is a special case, but an interesting one. The 1M has been seen selling for more than its original MSRP at 8 years of age. Of course, BMW has motorsports heritage and the 1M was only produced for the 2011 model year. Still, it’s interesting to see what supply and demand can do to the values of even recently produced cars.

Another discontinued model popular with enthusiasts, the Chevy SS, certainly bucked the trend of poor sedan resale value for a GM. The Chevy SS kept around 80% of its value after 2 years, and 70% after 3 years.

More relevantly, I’ll look to some cars still in production. The Audi S3 and BMW M2 are popular with enthusiasts and continue to be available new. The S3 has kept about 78% of its value after 2 years; 70% after 3 years. The M2 is a recent addition which has kept about 79% after 2 years.

Lets look at another example from Dodge. Kia’s cars, on average, are more reliable than the general public thinks – perhaps the opposite of Dodge's cars. Still, enough people know about the track record and dealer discounts of Dodge that resale values are below average on much of their lineup.

However, that isn’t the case with the Charger SRT 392. Like the Chevy SS, it’s one of the few spacious and powerful sedans recently produced. It’s a relatively low-volume car and its popularity with enthusiasts has held up its resale. As with my other examples, the 2015 Charger SRT 392 was worth about 70% of MRSP after 3 years.

We’re at the point where Kia’s cars are at least as reliable, but in many cases more so, than the average car. Much of the typical Kia depreciation in the past was due to poor brand perception.

At this point, I think there are plenty of enthusiasts out there that realize the Stinger is both reliable and a good performance car, and thus a good value. For that reason, I personally don’t believe typical Kia depreciation will set in on the Stinger GT. Rather, I think the resale values will be closer to performance cars from other brands.

Now, there are a few factors that might make the Stinger’s resale value fall a bit short of my previous examples:

· Kia’s dealership promos are better than what you’ll find for the other cars I gave as an example. Even for shoppers that don’t do a lease buyout, there are some pretty good discounts off MSRP along with conquest/loyalty rebates. This impacts the “driven off the lot” value.

· The Stinger isn’t available with a manual transmission, while all of my examples are. Automatic versions of those cars sell pretty closely in price, but aren’t as sought after.

· This is the first car of its type from Kia, which may affect the price dealers are willing to pay at auction.

· If the market value of the Stinger is far above the residual at lease turn-in, owners will be more likely to do an end of lease buyout. They'll pocket a good amount of cash even if they price their cars below market value. Enough people do this, and it'll bring down the average a bit.

· New models like the G70 and Supra could prove to be more popular, taking away some interest on the resale market.

All that said, here’s what I’m thinking about future resale values:

Stinger GT at 2 years/end of 2019: $31k average. Cars in certain locations, those with higher mileage, or poorly kept cars may been seen in the high $20k range.

Stinger GT at 3 years/end of 2020: $28k average. The 2020 model will be on dealership lots, but I expect changes to be minimal. If this seems high, note that 3 year old STI’s have sold around $30k on an MSRP of $40k.

Stinger GT2 at 2 years/end of 2019: $37.5k average. There are already a couple used GT2’s available near this price, but as an average this is where I think we’ll be. Keep in mind some ’18 leftovers will only have been driven 1 year at this point.

Stinger GT2 at 3 years/end of 2020: $34k average. A bold claim to be making. This is about $7k or 15% above the residual. With what I’ve found, though, I just don’t think we’ll see the average price drop to $30k at this point - barring huge gas price increases and/or a recession.

A well wrote, interesting read. To your point earlier in the post, I saw a 60k review of the Stinger GT from a reputable car publication. They cited nothing but praise for the car’s reliability, explaining that the only maintenance they had to have done on the car in 60k miles, besides oil changes, was changing the tires, brake shoes, and rotors. It was actually the result of this report that is what concluded my research and resulted in me going out and getting my own GT. My only question to you is- there is a depreciative trend in the price of the Stinger, clearly; going by the 2018 model- there seems to have been a 10k loss off the original MSRP sticker across all models...if your looking at making a Used purchase. Given your explanation on this- when do you think the trend will stop and stable out? 10k is a lot of money in less than 2 years.

 

[Travis Wills]

A well wrote, interesting read. To your point earlier in the post, I saw a 60k review of the Stinger GT from a reputable car publication. They cited nothing but praise for the car’s reliability, explaining that the only maintenance they had to have done on the car in 60k miles, besides oil changes, was changing the tires, brake shoes, and rotors. It was actually the result of this report that is what concluded my research and resulted in me going out and getting my own GT. My only question to you is- there is a depreciative trend in the price of the Stinger, clearly; going by the 2018 model- there seems to have been a 10k loss off the original MSRP sticker across all models...if your looking at making a Used purchase. Given your explanation on this- when do you think the trend will stop and stable out? 10k is a lot of money in less than 2 years.

At one point earlier this year the KBB resell value for a 2018 Stinger GT2 was $40k and yet a dealer was advertising a brand new 2019 GT2 for $39k with a lease.

Now the resell values for the 2018 models have plummeted since then but the 2019 models are still in the mid to upper 30’s.

The safest bet is to lease a Stinger. The lease protects you if the stinger suddenly hits a steep depreciation and gap insurance protects you if it is totaled. The great original warranty protects you if anything goes wrong with it.

I can’t fathom ANY situations where I would buy a used Stinger. I simply wouldn’t do it for any feasible price.

 

[Paladin611]

I understand your financial reasoning for not accepting any situation to buy a Stinger used- but perhaps some, such as myself went into the deal of a used Stinger knowing that regardless of what the market values the car in the future, we love our car enough that it isn’t for sale anyway. Seems pretty moot to me. I plan to drive this car into the ground with me. I adore my Stinger. Regarding a car as an investment item is a failing proposition in any realm.

 

[Logic717]

I’m planning to buy when I can get a GT2 for 25k out the door. I’ll evaluate the car at that point and take the same risk I do with any used car I get. But I have a hard budget that trumps all and 40k is not an amount I want to spend even for the peace of mind of new. That said I would prioritize a certified car to get the 10/100 warranty on power train.