Drag/Acceleration The Official 1/4 mile track thread.

[Manaz]

My PM is disabled but feel free to email me, terry@burgertuning.com!

Done, cheers.

 

[Tonkabob]

Made a few runs last night at the track. Ran two 11.86s @ 117 MPH at 78 degrees, 1900 DA. (Four 11.86s total) Later ran a 11.82, 11.84 with 1100 and 1500 DA.
New tune is pretty mellow and runs on pump 92 octane. 20 PSI 14- 15 max timing. The 11.82 is with at 1.76 60 foot. If I got brake snip working fully 1.60, 1.61 we are looking at 11.58, 11.59 range on pump gas tune no WMI.
Mods are tork tune, JT intake, UP FMIC, catback.

 

[Revvdmedia]

New tune is pretty mellow and runs on pump 92 octane. 20 PSI 14- 15 max timing.

If you're running 20 PSI on 92 octane with no WMI, to me, this is the difference between a tune and a piggyback (knowing no other specifics). Almost seems too good to be true considering 20PSI on a piggyback would either need WMI or crazy octane.

Magic?

 

[brancky3]

Made a few runs last night at the track. Ran two 11.86s @ 117 MPH at 78 degrees, 1900 DA. (Four 11.86s total) Later ran a 11.82, 11.84 with 1100 and 1500 DA.
New tune is pretty mellow and runs on pump 92 octane. 20 PSI 14- 15 max timing. The 11.82 is with at 1.76 60 foot. If I got brake snip working fully 1.60, 1.61 we are looking at 11.58, 11.59 range on pump gas tune no WMI.
Mods are tork tune, JT intake, UP FMIC, catback.
View attachment 29180
View attachment 29181

Is that the same tune that John was trapping ~120mph on?

If you're running 20 PSI on 92 octane with no WMI, to me, this is the difference between a tune and a piggyback (knowing no other specifics). Almost seems too good to be true considering 20PSI on a piggyback would either need WMI or crazy octane.

Magic?

With low timing, higher boost is possible with less octane. Not magic but that trap speed is pretty dang good for the octane / timing

 

[Tonkabob]

I suspect its very close to what John is running. I know he is running similar timing and boost. The 3 MPH difference is probably my 300 lb GT2 AWD weight disadvantage. Last night I ran a little E85, but today used just pump 92 and did a few tests and logs to see if it really ran on pump and it does.

 

[Terry@BMS]

If you're running 20 PSI on 92 octane with no WMI, to me, this is the difference between a tune and a piggyback (knowing no other specifics). Almost seems too good to be true considering 20PSI on a piggyback would either need WMI or crazy octane.

Magic?

I run 117mph on 91 octane on a mostly stock car no WMI, 120mph on 91 octane + E30 no WMI. I'm sure 120mph on 93 octane is doable for an aggressively tuned RWD car. The AWD cars seem to trap around 1mph slower than their RWD counterparts. But their traction benefit more than makes up for it!

 

[Terry@BMS]

Made a few runs last night at the track. Ran two 11.86s @ 117 MPH at 78 degrees,

Looks like a lot of boost and timing to me for 92 octane. I'd definitely want to keep an eye for timing drops across all cylinders before really beating on it. Or at a minimum keep adding in your octane booster for race day.

You really need to get that 60' down. 11.8s are so 3 months ago.

 

[Tonkabob]

This 117.46 trap surprised me, first run of the night, 5:00 PM and 78 degrees. In that heat I've run a few 115 or 116's on the prior tune.

 

[Tonkabob]

I run 117mph on 91 octane on a mostly stock car no WMI, 120mph on 91 octane + E30 no WMI. I'm sure 120mph on 93 octane is doable for an aggressively tuned RWD car. The AWD cars seem to trap around 1mph slower than their RWD counterparts. But their traction benefit more than makes up for it!

You also need to subtract at least 3 MPH for a dragy track vs a real track. I've hit 120 trap dragy and then 115 at the track on the same tune. (not saying dragy is off the conditions are just different)
Tork is hitting 120 MPH on a fairly mellow tune now on his RWD at the track. I think the difference between RWD GT vs GT2 AWD is closer to 3 MPH.

 

[Terry@BMS]

You also need to subtract at least 3 MPH for a dragy track vs a real track. I've hit 120 trap dragy and then 115 at the track on the same tune. (not saying dragy is off the conditions are just different)
Tork is hitting 120 MPH on a fairly mellow tune now on his RWD at the track. I think the difference between RWD GT vs GT2 AWD is closer to 3 MPH.

Right but he was on race gas and you were on 92, according to your posts. Makes a big difference. Not to mention being catless.

Either way I've seen a few AWD cars in the 119mph range and I've seen at least one RWD car with similar mods/tuning at 120mph but with a low 12s ET due to lack of traction.

Disappointing the new flash didn't really seem to do much for your car over the year old flash but that's just part of the process. When doing tuning R&D you really need to be able to do a run, look at log in real time, make a change, flash it, do another run, look at log in real time, make a change, flash it, etc. And that requires fast OBDII flashing tools. Without that best bet IMHO is to get the flash close enough and use the JB4 for the fine tuning between runs to optimize it.

 

[Tonkabob]

Looks like a lot of boost and timing to me for 92 octane. I'd definitely want to keep an eye for timing drops across all cylinders before really beating on it. Or at a minimum keep adding in your octane booster for race day.

You really need to get that 60' down. 11.8s are so 3 months ago.

Yeah i'll add some E85 on race days but my few test runs were smooth on 92. Nice to be able to run 92 daily.
I did attempt the one full brake snip launch last night (light flashing). Spun just a bit as I intentionally launched it soft and then cut throttle hard for 3-4 seconds. Same as usual. Suspect its running out of fuel or hitting some other safety limiter. I'm not a fan of that much stress on launch so the baby/limp snip launches are working fine. I had to turn the car off twice to get it out of beast mode and also flipping the switch late just before launch so it doesn't go full hulk on me. When its in beast mode flipping the brake signal back on does not fix it.

 

[Terry@BMS]

Yeah i'll add some E85 on race days but my few test runs were smooth on 92. Nice to be able to run 92 daily.
I did attempt the one full brake snip launch last night (light flashing). Spun just a bit as I intentionally launched it soft and then cut throttle hard for 3-4 seconds. Same as usual. Suspect its running out of fuel or hitting some other safety limiter. I'm not a fan of that much stress on launch so the baby/limp snip launches are working fine. I had to turn the car off twice to get it out of beast mode and also flipping the switch late just before launch so it doesn't go full hulk on me. When its in beast mode flipping the brake signal back on does not fix it.

Maybe something with your flash causing a different reaction on that. Too bad you can't quickly flash to stock to compare the difference in launch mode.

 

[Tonkabob]

Right but he was on race gas and you were on 92, according to your posts. Makes a big difference. Not to mention being catless.

Either way I've seen a few AWD cars in the 119mph range and I've seen at least one RWD car with similar mods/tuning at 120mph but with a low 12s ET due to lack of traction.

Disappointing the new flash didn't really seem to do much for your car over the year old flash but that's just part of the process. When doing tuning R&D you really need to be able to do a run, look at log in real time, make a change, flash it, do another run, look at log in real time, make a change, flash it, etc. And that requires fast OBDII flashing tools. Without that best bet IMHO is to get the flash close enough and use the JB4 for the fine tuning between runs to optimize it.

Tune is still in progress. Launch will be the big winner. If he can dial in a controllable smooth 1.65 to 1.70 60 foot that would be big.
Last week John was on 92/100 mix and I was on 92 E85 mix. He was running 119-120, I was running 116- 117. I was on a different tune last week but ran the same 116s, 117s on Johns tune this week, maybe .5 faster this week on average, exact same temps week over week. I would take the 92/E85 mix over the 92/100 mix. But true on no cats vs 4 cats. I've hit 118 on the track once or twice. I don't think I've seen an AWD do 119 on the track with out WMI.

 

[Terry@BMS]

Honestly peak power on these cars hasn't changed much in the last year. It peaks around 18psi, with a very minimal gain pushing it up to 20psi on higher octane and when adding parts to reduce back pressure a bit. I'm sure you could also run 117-118mph at 18psi given the right conditions.

Maybe someone can gut weight and run low 11s on stock turbos but to really move the platform forward towards solid 10s is going to take more large turbo setups.

 

[Revvdmedia]

Nobody worry, I have the 13's covered. No need for any extra effort there.

 

[Tonkabob]

Maybe something with your flash causing a different reaction on that. Too bad you can't quickly flash to stock to compare the difference in launch mode.

I wonder how the piggy vs flash sales will shift when we can change flash maps ourselves from a PC or hand held? hmmmmmm

 

[Terry@BMS]

I wonder how the piggy vs flash sales will shift when we can change flash maps ourselves from a PC or hand held? hmmmmmm

You'll see a lot more people interested in flash tuning then that's for sure especially when cars come out of warranty. The BMW N54 application (2007-2010 335i models) has flashing that is 100% free, anyone can load it, and there are plenty of great free flash maps posted. We still sell over 150 JB4 systems per month for it all these years later. That's saying something as it costs $479 and you can buy an entire car for $5k now. As good as flash tuning can be there is just only so much you can do within the factory ECU logic.

 

[xot1]

14 timing with 20psi of boost with no WMI and pump gas is very nice.
I run around 20psi of boost too, with the JB4, and I have around 14 of timing too, but this is with WMI and a strong octane booster.
If I remove these two, my timings would fall sub 10 with this amount of boost, it could even be dangerous. Same for other piggybacks.
The stock ECU logic pulls timings probably for some reason (knock sensor?), is it safe to force high timings with such a low octane through the ECU tune??

 

[Terry@BMS]

14 timing with 20psi of boost with no WMI and pump gas is very nice.
I run around 20psi of boost too, with the JB4, and I have around 14 of timing too, but this is with WMI and a strong octane booster.
If I remove these two, my timings would fall sub 10 with this amount of boost, it could even be dangerous. Same for other piggybacks.
The stock ECU logic pulls timings probably for some reason (knock sensor?), is it safe to force high timings with such a low octane through the ECU tune??

You'd really have to look at cylinder to cylinder timing to know, assuming they haven't accidentally desensitized the knock tables in the flash. I've seen that happen before.

 

[xot1]

You'd really have to look at cylinder to cylinder timing to know, assuming they haven't accidentally desensitized the knock tables in the flash. I've seen that happen before.

Here are my timings with stock ECU + JB4 Map8 :



Outside temp 80F, Humidity 85%
WMI and high octane gas.