3.3TT Wagner Tuning intercooler

[K8 Stinger Store]

It has been repeated several times, from the first announcement to the last, wagner always showed the ducts as part of the package, and it is a very well design duct and they obviously spent a lot of time designing it. but they are aware that adding carbon fiber ducts (probably cost at least $500) to an already expensive intercooler will be a difficult sale (which is true, very few will pay that much) especially to kia owners who they probably perceive as more price conscious people, which is why they dropped it from the package, not because it wont make a difference. This has been confirmed by K8stingerstore as well, that the main reason for dropping the ducts was the price.

Please stop repeating that this has been confirmed by K8 Stinger Store, as you are taking my response out of context.

What I said was that they decided not to make Carbon Fiber Snorkel Ducts due to the higher price of making them in Carbon Fiber. This has nothing to do with them choosing not to use any ducts at all. Also, there has only been (1) single picture/video posted of the intercooler showing the ducts from the very start. The way you are saying it makes it sound like there were tons of announcements and photos/videos shown with them included.

 

[STINGER]

Please stop repeating that this has been confirmed by K8 Stinger Store, as you are taking my response out of context.

What I said was that they decided not to make Carbon Fiber Snorkel Ducts due to the higher price of making them in Carbon Fiber. This has nothing to do with them choosing not to use any ducts at all. Also, there has only been (1) single picture/video posted of the intercooler showing the ducts from the very start. The way you are saying it makes it sound like there were tons of announcements and photos/videos shown with them included.

How can I use it out of context when you have said it is due to the price and that they might release it in the future? Why would they want to release it in the future then other than it has benefits.

They have released several live videos/pics on instagram over the months.

 

[K8 Stinger Store]

How can I use it out of context when you have said it is due to the price and that they might release it in the future? Why would they want to release it in the future then other than it has benefits.

They have released several live videos/pics on instagram over the months.

I made that very clear in my response that you just quoted and replied to.

I said that due to the price of making "Carbon Fiber Snorkel Ducts" they decided not to make them.

You are stating that I said they decided not to use ANY snorkel ducts or any ducts at all due to the price, which is 100% incorrect and being taken completely out of context. (Which is what I am politely and respectfully asking you not to do)

I am very very good friends with the owner of Wagner Tuning USA, that handles all distribution in North America. I can confirm that there has been only (1) video ever released of the Wagner Intercooler installed on a Kia Stinger before it's release, and photos were screenshotted showing the ducts, from that single video that was posted back on December 7th, 2018. You implying that there have been several photos and videos posted showing them being included is false and misleading.

I am not here to argue with anyone, I am simply trying to clear up misinformation that seems to keep getting posted about this.

I get it, this intercooler may not be for everyone, and I also get that many of you don't like it or want it without the ducts being included, got it!

 

[STINGER]

I made that very clear in my response that you just quoted and replied to.

I said that due to the price of making "Carbon Fiber Snorkel Ducts" they decided not to make them.

You are stating that I said they decided not to use ANY snorkel ducts or any ducts at all due to the price, which is 100% incorrect and being taken completely out of context. (Which is what I am politely and respectfully asking you not to do)

I am very very good friends with the owner of Wagner Tuning USA, that handles all distribution in North America. I can confirm that there has been only (1) video ever released of the Wagner Intercooler installed on a Kia Stinger before it's release, and photos were screenshotted showing the ducts, from that single video that was posted back on December 7th, 2018. You implying that there have been several photos and videos posted showing them being included is false and misleading.

I am not here to argue with anyone, I am simply trying to clear up misinformation that seems to keep getting posted about this.

I get it, this intercooler may not be for everyone, and I also get that many of you don't like it or want it without the ducts being included, got it!

What are you reading? Thats exactly what i am not saying. I am saying that wagner wants add ducts but because the carbon fiber ones are expensive they are not releasing them just yet, again this is my assumption. On the other hand second is very certain wagner hasnt released them because they are useless.

So not wanting to make them due to the high cost but maybe releasing them in the future means what?

Also since you have a very close relationship with wagner NA and to put this to an end, please confirm with wagner if this statement is true or false “This intercooler will yield the same exit temperature with or without the snorkels”


Mod Edit: If this post doesn’t make sense it’s because a mod had to clean up OPs language to make it civilized.

 

[Secondchance]

I am not making an assumption, it has been confirmed in this thread by K8stingerstore that they did not decide to sell the ducts because of the high sale price because they are carbon fiber and not because they are not beneficial.

So with the ducts the wagner intercooler will not have closer temps to ambient? Ok great.

It's been confirmed that they decided to not sell CARBON FIBER ducts because of cost, not that cost was the reason for not including ducts regardless of the material.

At anyrate, that's exactly what I'm saying, that the ducts would provided literally 0 benefit to the outlet iats, which I'd the temperature the air is as it enters your inlet manifold/engine. The ducts could never lower the temp of the air below ambient, making it impossible for the ducts to provided even more cooling than the intercooler that is already lowering the iats to roughly ambient.

The only benefit they would serve to provide, is slightly cooler air as it enters the turbo, which in theory could help it stay efficient longer. Since you're at stock boost levels, or no where near the top of the stock turbos efficiency, the benefit is at best, nominal.

Now the snorkels themselves on the stock intercooler, especially as we add more boost/heat to the equation seem to offer some benefit, if we're to assume your personal experiment is the control. Ideally though, you'd need significantly more data to set the control to form a proper conclusion.

 

[STINGER]

It's been confirmed that they decided to not sell CARBON FIBER ducts because of cost, not that cost was the reason for not including ducts regardless of the material.

At anyrate, that's exactly what I'm saying, that the ducts would provided literally 0 benefit to the outlet iats, which I'd the temperature the air is as it enters your inlet manifold/engine. The ducts could never lower the temp of the air below ambient, making it impossible for the ducts to provided even more cooling than the intercooler that is already lowering the iats to roughly ambient.

The only benefit they would serve to provide, is slightly cooler air as it enters the turbo, which in theory could help it stay efficient longer. Since you're at stock boost levels, or no where near the top of the stock turbos efficiency, the benefit is at best, nominal.

Now the snorkels themselves on the stock intercooler, especially as we add more boost/heat to the equation seem to offer some benefit, if we're to assume your personal experiment is the control. Ideally though, you'd need significantly more data to set the control to form a proper conclusion.

Why are we talking about below ambient temp? When did below ambient temp enter the discussion?

All the data you provided says that while the wagner intercooler is very efficient (and we are not denying this) the outlet temp it is still above ambient, cooler pre intercooler temps will help bring the intercooler outlet temp closer to ambient on any intercooler setup including the wagner. On the other hand you are saying it will make Zero difference.

 

[Secondchance]

Why are we talking about below ambient temp? When did below ambient temp enter the discussion?

All the data you provided says that while the wagner intercooler is very efficient (and we are not denying this) the outlet temp it is still above ambient, cooler pre intercooler temps will help bring the intercooler outlet temp closer to ambient on any intercooler setup including the wagner. On the other hand you are saying it will make Zero difference.

. The outlet temp with 50*C and with 120*C inlet temps (90*F which is 4-5 times a larger number than the benefit your ducts could ever hope to provide ) different between 1-2*C total. a product that you've shown could provide maybe 20*F in lower inlets temps could help a product provide even lower outlet let's then it is now, when the outlet temp are AMBIENT or slightly over, almost unchanged whether the intlet is 50*C or 120*C?!

Mod Edit: If this post doesn’t make sense it’s because a mod had to clean up OPs language to make it civilized.

 

[STINGER]

The outlet temp with 50*C and with 120*C inlet temps (90*F which is 4-5 times a larger number than the benefit your ducts could ever hope to provide ) different between 1-2*C total. Where the eff do you get off making statements like a product that you've shown could provide maybe 20*F in lower inlets temps could help a product provide even lower outlet let's then it is now, when the outlet temp are AMBIENT or slightly over, almost unchanged whether the intlet is 50*C or 120*C?! .

Riiiight, so their is no relationship with turbo outlet temp and the intercooler outlet temp?

 

[xot1]

If ducts are effective (I don't believe they are), I will just have them made by a shop with the proper tools. No big deal, it's just a piece of plastic.

 

[Angel]

Why are we going back forward over this? I think everyone can agree the ducks are beneficial or not.

The reality is this. You want a bad ass intercooler with ducts included get the JT intercooler.

You want an intercooler were you can use the big mouth snorkles then get a CX, UP or AP.

You want to save money and get more mods and better cooling buy the AP intercooler on eBay for $570 shipped and get the BMS wmi kit for like $500-600. That will cool you off lol.

All these vendors will have these cool graphs and colors to them. The reality is that there is no evidence yet that their $1100 intercooler can out perform a $570 AP intercooler or any other intercooler.

All the arguing over ducts? Look advise to everyone reading this get the AP intercooler and save $600 bucks or get any intercooler that makes you happy!

I personally saw my IAT drop on the JB4 when I added the velossa ducks especially when going over 40pmh. It could of just been coincidence or my mind playing tricks if there truly worthless as some believe.

 

[Secondchance]

View attachment 25662

Riiiight, so their is no relationship with turbo outlet temp and the intercooler outlet temp?

.As you can see, the variance in outlet temps is so minor, and remains so close to ambient that your ducts could not make a difference. The spectrum of turbo outlet change is literally 100*F which produces 3*C change in outlet temps on the intercooler, which at that time are just over 3*C above ambient, also known as the temperature of the air in the environment at the time, or, the lowest temp the air is can possibly be before entering the turbo. If 90*F translates into only 5.5*F after the intercooler, and 80*F higher temps ( what your suggesting the ducts would in theory produce at that same time, as you assume the turbo outlet temps must be 20*F lower ) produce roughly the same Intercooler outlet temps, where does a duct make a difference? The spectrum (90*F) shown is 5 times larger than your suggested temp drop on the turbo outlet, and it produces less than 5.5*F in total temperature change from top to bottom, and a grand total of 6.5*F above ambient...

They aren't, period, and that is why the manufacturer chose to not include them all together ( the material of which they could be made is irrelevant ) Not only have they not, but none of the brands do. Further to that, no major brands do for ANY turbocharged application unless the intercooler is directly blocking the path for the intake air. They don't do it for intercoolers on the Evo, Sti, Golf R/GTI, Focus RS, Camero's, Cobalt SS turbo's, Genesis, Audi a4/s4/s3/rs3, mazdaspeed 3/6 and so on. I guess brands like ETS, APR, Unitronics, Agency Power, AMS, Forge, AGP and many others who have been making high end Intercoolers for decades all just decided the "cost" associated with the otherwise super beneficial snorkels was simply too much and have otherwise completely eliminated it from their designs on every platform that came before our car

Mod Edit: If this post doesn’t make sense it’s because a mod had to clean up OPs language to make it civilized.

 

[xot1]

Why are we going back forward over this? I think everyone can agree the ducks are beneficial or not.

The reality is this. You want a bad ass intercooler with ducts included get the JT intercooler.

You want an intercooler were you can use the big mouth snorkles then get a CX, UP or AP.

You want to save money and get more mods and better cooling buy the AP intercooler on eBay for $570 shipped and get the BMS wmi kit for like $500-600. That will cool you off lol.

The ducts are part of the JT intake, not the JT intercooler. (Already mentioned it, apparently you didn't read)
Here is how I would say it :
1. You want a bad ass intercooler and you don't believe adding ducts will make any difference, get the Wagner intercooler
2. You want a bad ass intercooler and you want to add ducts later on or already have them, get the JT intercooler
3. You don't want such a big intercooler, go CX, UP or AP and save some money.

All these vendors will have these cool graphs and colors to them. The reality is that there is no evidence yet that their $1100 intercooler can out perform a $570 AP intercooler or any other intercooler.

Out of all the vendors, Wagner is maybe the company that does the most simulations on its designs. They are well known for it. There is no field data yet for the Stinger platform, but I would be surprised if the smaller intercoolers outperformed the Wagner intercooler.

All the arguing over ducts? Look advise to everyone reading this get the AP intercooler and save $600 bucks or get any intercooler that makes you happy!

The AP is cheaper because it is just smaller, a more simple design and includes less parts. Had AP made a similar-sized intercooler than Wagner with the same package, I am pretty sure it would be priced about the same. At one point, you must decide how much money you want to spend on an intercooler.
If you want to keep it under 600usd, there are a bunch of good products including AP.
If you are okay with spending around 1000usd then its either Wagner or JT.

 

[DaJackson]

This thread is going to the corner for awhile to think about what it did.

 

[STINGER]

View attachment 25663 View attachment 25662

.As you can see, the variance in outlet temps is so minor, and remains so close to ambient that your ducts could not make a difference. The spectrum of turbo outlet change is literally 100*F which produces 3*C change in outlet temps on the intercooler, which at that time are just over 3*C above ambient, also known as the temperature of the air in the environment at the time, or, the lowest temp the air is can possibly be before entering the turbo. If 90*F translates into only 5.5*F after the intercooler, and 80*F higher temps ( what your suggesting the ducts would in theory produce at that same time, as you assume the turbo outlet temps must be 20*F lower ) produce roughly the same Intercooler outlet temps, where in your magical world of pixies and fairy dust does a duct make a difference? The spectrum (90*F) shown is 5 times larger than your suggested temp drop on the turbo outlet, and it produces less than 5.5*F in total temperature change from top to bottom, and a grand total of 6.5*F above ambient...

I get that you're brand new to turbo charged vehicles, but nothing you say makes any sense, or creates a scenario where the ducts are even remotely beneficial. They aren't, period, and that is why the manufacturer chose to not include them all together ( the material of which they could be made is irrelevant ) Not only have they not, but none of the brands do. Further to that, no major brands do for ANY turbocharged application unless the intercooler is directly blocking the path for the intake air. They don't do it for intercoolers on the Evo, Sti, Golf R/GTI, Focus RS, Camero's, Cobalt SS turbo's, Genesis, Audi a4/s4/s3/rs3, mazdaspeed 3/6 and so on. I guess brands like ETS, APR, Unitronics, Agency Power, AMS, Forge, AGP and many others who have been making high end Intercoolers for decades all just decided the "cost" associated with the otherwise super beneficial snorkels was simply too much and have otherwise completely eliminated it from their designs on every platform that came before our car... LMAO

data is data and formulas are formulas and your blanket statement is not supported by both. Your statement is false and the data from wagner proves it.

Also, what you are saying does not correlate to the stinger wagner graph. You keep referring to the VW graph, we are talking about the stinger and nothing else and all the data should be referred from the attached stinger graph from wagner.

The overall turbo outlet temp spectrum according to the wagner kia stinger graph is 67.2 to 99.5c (153f to 211f, a spectrum of 58f not 100f), with an overall change in outlet temp of 5c or 9f (3.7c to 8.7c or 38.7f to 47.7f) not 3c.

The intercooler should be measured at peak performance because that is what matters, when you compare the peak turbo outlet temp of 99.5c (211f) and reduce it by 20f to 87.8c as per the graph, the air outlet temp goes from 8.7c to 5.1c or 47.7f to 41.2f a difference of 3.6c or 6.5f. So if we presume a 20f reduction at the turbo outlet we wouldn't have hit 99.5f (211F) to begin with and would have peaked at 87.8c which is 3.6c or 6.5f less, how is this zero change?

Most of the brands you mentioned sell a cold air intakes that includes either a duct or a method to get cooler air at the intake level, just because it is not included with the intercooler does not mean it is not useful. Almost all high end performance cars or race cars go to huge lengths to either include a duct or place the intake at a location to get cooler air.

 

[turboAWD]

For those that wanted to know if velassa tech fits. I just got confirmation from Wagner they don’t fit with the intercooler. I’m sure it’s still a good intercooler I had it on my Optima in the pass. Just wanted to share.

Surprising, since they said this on facebook:
Rick Palmer: Will the intercooler work with BIG MOUTH COLD AIR INTAKE SNORKEL DUCTS - VELOSSA TECH 2018+ KIA STINGER 2.0/3.3?
Wagner Tuning Yes, as far as we see there is no problem

So, obviously someone got the wrong answer - and it's quite possible that it was the facebook guy, but still..

 

[Angel]

Surprising, since they said this on facebook:
Rick Palmer: Will the intercooler work with BIG MOUTH COLD AIR INTAKE SNORKEL DUCTS - VELOSSA TECH 2018+ KIA STINGER 2.0/3.3?
Wagner Tuning Yes, as far as we see there is no problem

So, obviously someone got the wrong answer - and it's quite possible that it was the facebook guy, but still..

It will work as long as there not installed on the car lol

 

[xot1]

Okay so I'll answer the question everyone asks:



It is 20 lbs heavier. But since the stuff removed from the stock car may weigh 1~2 lbs, I would say that it means an increase in weight of ~18lbs.

I'll write a detailed review later.
But I will just say one thing: I did few runs and the cars pulls much stronger. Incredible difference.

 

[Kazz]

Okay so I'll answer the question everyone asks:

View attachment 26178

It is 20 lbs heavier. But since the stuff removed from the stock car may weigh 1~2 lbs, I would say that it means an increase in weight of ~18lbs.

I'll write a detailed review later.
But I will just say one thing: I did few runs and the cars pulls much stronger. Incredible difference.

Sorry, but what is the significance of the pictures?

 

[Angel]

Sorry, but what is the significance of the pictures?

To show the weight difference. I am jus trying to think logically lol. There might be a hidden meaning thou.

 

[xot1]

Left is the stock IC 4.8kg
Right is the wagner IC 14.1kg