3.3TT Defective Michelin Pilot Sport 4s?

[Helo58]

PS 4S and the PS 4 are not the same tire. There were a very few Stingers equipped with the softer 4S. Was yours one of them?

It was a dealer spec'd car for someone on staff who ordered the car. He changed his mind and purchased a GT2 CS with red leather. One of only a few Base GTs in Ceramic Silver with a LSD. I don't know if the dealership put them on for him or if it came from Kia that way. Having experienced the PSS shortcomings, I was excited about either of the new Michelins and looked forward to the 4S.

 

[itguy61]

I hope I like my new Pilot Sport A/S 3 plus tires. They seem to be very good so far, I have had them on for a grand total of one day. Pilot sport 4's wear pretty fast it would seem. Don't want to be replacing tires every year.

 

[Marc Collins]

I hope I like my new Pilot Sport A/S 3 plus tires. They seem to be very good so far, I have had them on for a grand total of one day. Pilot sport 4's wear pretty fast it would seem. Don't want to be replacing tires every year.

They'll be perfect for all inclement weather. The only issue is what % less grip and handling in the dry? For everyday driving, probably none. When on the limit...that's the big question! If you are an experienced driver who has really pushed your Stinger, review would be appreciated.

 

[Weareblondi]

Lol. You sir are truly uninformed and unsure what universe you’re talking about... But here on earth the #1 selling & highest rated UHP tires on Tirerack are about $120-150 for our Stingers.https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tires....toYear=2018&autoModel=Stinger+GT&autoModClar=

However I actually said a set of “used” UHP tires for $100, which is exactly what I found. I went with Continental ContiSportContact 5p’s for only $55/each with mount & balance and 30day warranty included!

Now I can test and make sure the rear differential isn’t causing uneven wear before ruining another set of new tires.

And appreciate the offer but I would never buy POS Michelin 4s again, even though your magical versions that apparently float on air, sound priceless!

And I didn’t respond to that because I’m here for help & advice, not to argue about your magical tires. Those facts don’t add up, and Im not the type of person that believes anything just because someone says it’s true... So im taking the high road and will simply agree to disagree.
Half tread @10k still seems optimistic, but at least that’s more realistic. Also you both are AWD and don’t have traction issues like RWD Stingers so even cheap noname tires wouldn’t spin. That’s apples to oranges comparison, but glad you like them and to each their own.

I didn’t drive in the 20s but it was in the 40-50s right around the time I noticed the tread coming off, so maybe that’s still too cold for the Michelin’s.

But thanks to everyone for their help and just hope others don’t have similar issues.

you know, I forgot that you had problems with your rear axle. I am curious if when they worked on it, if they messed it up somehow. being that you are having issues with transference of power side to side, that might be a cause for the chunking of the tires. just my 2 centavos

 

[nhcowboy28]

I hope I like my new Pilot Sport A/S 3 plus tires. They seem to be very good so far, I have had them on for a grand total of one day. Pilot sport 4's wear pretty fast it would seem. Don't want to be replacing tires every year.

They are good until you hit ANY amount of compacted snow or ice. Doesn’t matter how slow/smooth... you will not have traction.

I learned that the hard way 5 years ago. They were quite good in the dry and at temp.

 

[MerlintheMad]

They are good until you hit ANY amount of compacted snow or ice. Doesn’t matter how slow/smooth... you will not have traction.

I learned that the hard way 5 years ago. They were quite good in the dry and at temp.

I wouldn't put compacted snow and ice in the same category. On ice or any frozen surface no tires are going to stop anytime soon. Winter/snow tires have a slight edge over A/S at the softer compound end of the spectrum; but once the skid starts there is very little difference in stopping performance.

 

[Marc Collins]

They are good until you hit ANY amount of compacted snow or ice. Doesn’t matter how slow/smooth... you will not have traction.

I learned that the hard way 5 years ago. They were quite good in the dry and at temp.

If that's the case, then they aren't much of an advantage over the PS 4. Those fall in exactly the same circumstances, but are otherwise fine, even down to 0 F if dry.

Do others using them agree?

 

[nhcowboy28]

If that's the case, then they aren't much of an advantage over the PS 4. Those fall in exactly the same circumstances, but are otherwise fine, even down to 0 F if dry.

Do others using them agree?

The rubber on the PS4 tires will get much harder.. and potentially marble/chunk off at those temps. So beside the inherit safety issues with that (while driving), the damage to pretty pricey tires is why I don’t drive them year round... even in mild winter Atlanta.

 

[Marc Collins]

The rubber on the PS4 tires will get much harder.. and potentially marble/chunk off at those temps. So beside the inherit safety issues with that (while driving), the damage to pretty pricey tires is why I don’t drive them year round... even in mild winter Atlanta.

My Stinger neighbour used them all last winter (with polar vortex temps in Toronto you can't even imagine) and this year, too. He has a daily commute of about 60 miles. I am using mine also, though I don't need to drive every day. They harden much less than even UHP A/S tires I have used for 15+ years. Perfectly usable in the dry cold. It's only the build-up of slush that kills them. Powdery snow is not much of a problem, either. I would not use them in a truly cold climate like Canadian prairies, or mountainous regions with lots of snow, but for primarily city driving in mid-continent, they are OK.

 

[nhcowboy28]

My Stinger neighbour used them all last winter (with polar vortex temps in Toronto you can't even imagine) and this year, too. He has a daily commute of about 60 miles. I am using mine also, though I don't need to drive every day. They harden much less than even UHP A/S tires I have used for 15+ years. Perfectly usable in the dry cold. It's only the build-up of slush that kills them. Powdery snow is not much of a problem, either. I would not use them in a truly cold climate like Canadian prairies, or mountainous regions with lots of snow, but for primarily city driving in mid-continent, they are OK.

 

[MerlintheMad]

This subject is going the rounds and is starting to sound silly. From "Do NOT use there tires", to "they are OK", leaves every driver to make up his own mind.

"They harden much less than even UHP A/S tires" is really hard to believe: because the schtick about compound stiffness or pliability plays directly into how hard a tire gets when cold/frozen. As far as I have been able to discern from all the verbiage thrown around, A/S tires are softer than summer/sport tires. There may be an overlap with UHP A/S (the hardest A/S compounds) and the lowest performing UHP summer/sport tires, but I think it would be a narrow overlap and not productive to point out or emphasize when talking about how these two classes of tires behave when cold/frozen. A/S will not grip on dry, unfrozen roads like UHP summer tires do. And summer tires will not grip on a frozen (I'm not saying icy) road surface like A/S tires do.

But for "normal driving", i.e. no attempt at "spirited driving", in traffic, at moderate speeds, with the focus on safety and caution, I doubt that a given driver will find summer tires incapable of performing on a cleared road. It just won't be fun. A good A/S tire on a frozen, cleared road is going to behave and allow for bursts of speed in perfect safety. The A/S that is softer will be a better performer than an UHP A/S on a frozen, dry surface. Under such conditions, the snow tire is actually going to behave worse than the A/S tire.

 

[Marc Collins]

This subject is going the rounds and is starting to sound silly. From "Do NOT use there tires", to "they are OK", leaves every driver to make up his own mind.

"They harden much less than even UHP A/S tires" is really hard to believe: because the schtick about compound stiffness or pliability plays directly into how hard a tire gets when cold/frozen. As far as I have been able to discern from all the verbiage thrown around, A/S tires are softer than summer/sport tires. There may be an overlap with UHP A/S (the hardest A/S compounds) and the lowest performing UHP summer/sport tires, but I think it would be a narrow overlap and not productive to point out or emphasize when talking about how these two classes of tires behave when cold/frozen. A/S will not grip on dry, unfrozen roads like UHP summer tires do. And summer tires will not grip on a frozen (I'm not saying icy) road surface like A/S tires do.

But for "normal driving", i.e. no attempt at "spirited driving", in traffic, at moderate speeds, with the focus on safety and caution, I doubt that a given driver will find summer tires incapable of performing on a cleared road. It just won't be fun. A good A/S tire on a frozen, cleared road is going to behave and allow for bursts of speed in perfect safety. The A/S that is softer will be a better performer than an UHP A/S on a frozen, dry surface. Under such conditions, the snow tire is actually going to behave worse than the A/S tire.

We're not talking about verbiage or classifications of tires--that's all known quantity stuff you can find elsewhere. We're talking about actual tires in actual conditions on Stingers. Fact: the PS 4 on my car now hardens less than UHP A/S tires I have used on other cars. It flat spots less than UHP A/S tires I have used previously and currently (Conti ExtremeContact DWS 06). It is an unusual tire that is somewhere "in between" a summer tire and an A/S. That goes for the tread life, too, as you have attested with your own.

The point I am making is that had the second vid been done in very cold, but dry conditions, the PS 4's on AWD would outperform or equally perform the winter tires on FWD. For SOME PEOPLE ONLY, conditions mean that they can drive gingerly for the few days of the year that are somewhat cold and sloppy super-slippery slush. Trade-off between that and hassle/expense of switching tires and driving on poorer handling tires for a third of the year. If you are not willing to pay careful attention to road conditions and drive accordingly (the majority of people based on what you see everyday on the roads), then use all-weather or all-season tires as appropriate. If you are in mountains (where sudden huge snowfalls can occur, or very low temps at high altitude) or need to commute every day and want maximum safety, use proper tires.

But, for those who do not have such harsh conditions or they only occur very rarely, the PS 4 can work if you are careful and can provide a better overall experience when averaged across the 365 days of the year. EVERYONE needs to make up their own minds basd on their own conditions and expectations. This is obvious. And it's why this thread/forum should be about sharing factual information, not trying to convince other people about their own responsibility to decide what is best for them.

 

[MerlintheMad]

And it's why this thread/forum should be about sharing factual information, not trying to convince other people about their own responsibility to decide what is best for them.

These two, fact sharing and deciding what is best, are not mutually exclusive. In fact they are inseparable if you actually do make a decision after listening to the back and forth and pros and cons about the tires choices out there.

Other than less flat spotting, I am curious how you determined that the summer tires are softer than the A/S. A lack of flat spotting could actually be caused by a harder tire, being less prone to deforming while stationary.

 

[Marc Collins]

These two, fact sharing and deciding what is best, are not mutually exclusive. In fact they are inseparable if you actually do make a decision after listening to the back and forth and pros and cons about the tires choices out there.

Other than less flat spotting, I am curious how you determined that the summer tires are softer than the A/S. A lack of flat spotting could actually be caused by a harder tire, being less prone to deforming while stationary.

By driving it in extreme cold and being shocked that there was no noticeable hardening. You can easily feel the difference (ride and handling) in a summer tire when it hardens (see also video above). There is no indication that you are on a summer tire on dry pavement even at 0 F with the PS 4. My supposition is that it is not a summer tire, but an interesting compound hybrid of the PS 4 S and something else/new. It shouldn't work as well as it does in the cold. But then we didn't have all-weather tires until a few years ago. Tire compound development is on a fascinating and wonderful upward trend.

 

[brancky3]

By driving it in extreme cold and being shocked that there was no noticeable hardening. You can easily feel the difference (ride and handling) in a summer tire when it hardens (see also video above). There is no indication that you are on a summer tire on dry pavement even at 0 F with the PS 4. My supposition is that it is not a summer tire, but an interesting compound hybrid of the PS 4 S and something else/new. It shouldn't work as well as it does in the cold. But then we didn't have all-weather tires until a few years ago. Tire compound development is on a fascinating and wonderful upward trend.

Michelin works magic

 

[MerlintheMad]

There is no indication that you are on a summer tire on dry pavement even at 0 F with the PS 4.

That would go along with my experience last spring. Three, four times, I drove on my Pilot's in freezing conditions, twice with snow falling, and I never felt any "squirreliness". It wasn't until I read the talk on here that I realized there even was an issue with driving when it was too cold. When I went over Soldier Summit and slush was starting to form, I treated the driving conditions as I had always: I slowed to what I felt was a safe "testing" speed and determined that the grip was fine for normal driving: I wasn't going to push anything on that road in those conditions. I stayed at the speed limit and slightly above and everything felt secure.

 

[Helo58]

By driving it in extreme cold and being shocked that there was no noticeable hardening. You can easily feel the difference (ride and handling) in a summer tire when it hardens (see also video above). There is no indication that you are on a summer tire on dry pavement even at 0 F with the PS 4. My supposition is that it is not a summer tire, but an interesting compound hybrid of the PS 4 S and something else/new. It shouldn't work as well as it does in the cold. But then we didn't have all-weather tires until a few years ago. Tire compound development is on a fascinating and wonderful upward trend.

I agree with this. I think. I am not entirely sure I am following correctly but I did want to add that the Michelins that were on my car new did not "harden" in cold weather. I never felt the clump clump clump driving in cold temperatures after the vehicle had been sitting. With the current Firestones, it takes about 2 miles before the "bumpiness" goes away at temps below 35 or so. I never had this occur with the Michelin... Just a blown out sidewall on a relatively mild pothole from them.

 

[Doel]

I agree with this. I think. I am not entirely sure I am following correctly but I did want to add that the Michelins that were on my car new did not "harden" in cold weather. I never felt the clump clump clump driving in cold temperatures after the vehicle had been sitting. With the current Firestones, it takes about 2 miles before the "bumpiness" goes away at temps below 35 or so. I never had this occur with the Michelin... Just a blown out sidewall on a relatively mild pothole from them.

yeah same experience, blown sidewall in a moderate pothole going maybe 10 mph. I have no idea if the tire is "harder" or not when cold, but I can tell you this. The only time the car fishtails when accelerating is when it's wet and when it's really cold. I do not get good traction with the PS4 in below freezing weather, but it's perfectly adequate for normal driving. Stock RWD.

 

[eflyguy]

I break mine loose in dry and warm conditions all the time. Every tire (and vehicle) has its limits. It's just a matter of how hard you want to push it.